There is the question of the Aliens constitution. In the first movie it was nigh undestructable, in the second they killed them by the dozen. There were two completely different approaches: Alien 1 and Alien 3 where a small group of poorly armed, unaware people came up against a sole Alien and Alien 2 and 4 where a large group of people battled dozens of aliens. The thrill of the first two was in personal horror while the others were more like action horror movies...

I was wondering what approach the game would take? Will the alien be the lone unkillable sort or the group assault on the hive thing??

In short, more horror or more action?

Well, being an RPG, there's also combat, so there will be plenty of aliens (and humans) to kill I presume. Otherwise it would get a bit boring...

 

 

Yes , but the appeal of the creature was that encouters with it were rare, quick and brutal - and killing one was most of the time hell of an experience.

In the first two movies a lot of time passes (over half) before anything actually happens. Even then the combined combat with the aliens is perhaps 15-20 min.

 

You cant make something inspire fear if you can kill them by the dozen... The threat of the Alien was the threat of the unknown, lurking in the dark sort of thing... Dunno how they are going to capture that feel with the traditonal genocidal RPG gameplay...

I hear you, and I think we once had a lenghtly debate about this. Are the Aliens just little pigs that get slaughtered like Orcs, or is there a more harder and involving approach to finish them? Well, I guess this really comes down to the implementation. Ie. How good will the AI be, how creative the level design to allow the AI to act accordingly, how well will the player be equipped, etc. I'm surely like to find out as eagerly as you!

 

If its left up to the AI it seems obvious that turn based combat a la KOTOR2, NWN2 is thrown straight out of the window. Its simply not fluid enough (remember the jarring animations as the game calculates whose turn it is, and the models "sliding" into position for the combat animations and so on...). This might be a good thing, I think if it were the pseudo real time it would ruin the flow of such a game. After all the Aliens move like water (hte one in the first movie was a seven foot tall mime guy in a rubber cotume ), and lightning fast. You cant make that look good turn based...

 

Which comes down to Mass Effect style combat, which is real time but uses PC's statistics. As much as I hate to say this, it might be the best solution...

 

But that worries me, because even Bioware screwed up combat in ME, and all the action type sequences in Biowares or Obsidian's games (KOTOR's fighter turrets and so on) were notoriously badly done. Making fluid action gamplay is hell of a job, and its something completely different...I mean companies specialise in it: Capcom, Namco and so on...

 

Could we get an answer to that Mr. Sawyer? (will it be pseudo real time or real time)

It's going to be good and it's going to consistently run at 30+ fps. That's all I can say right now.

It's going to be good and it's going to consistently run at 30+ fps. That's all I can say right now.

 

Just a last question. When Obsidian will be ready to show us their Aliens RPG?

There are some rumors about Ocober (as the Gearbox game)

Its that true?

This brings up a question that has been bothering me about this game. Will folks who know nothing about the Aliens & Predators franchise actually be able to follow and understand this game? I've never seen an Aliens & Predators movie, never played any of the games, and have absolutely no knowledge of the setting, concept, or inhabitants of the Alien & Predators world. Because of that, I haven't been able to muster up much interest, but if I hadn't played Baldurs Gate because I didn't know anything about Forgotten Realms I would have missed a great game.

 

The above comments seem to indicate that the game will take place entirely on a ship full of monsters... is this the case? Is the game set up expecting players to have a basic knowledge of the A&P setting, or will there be enough of a tutorial/introduction to explain the basics of the A&P concept to newbies like myself? Just curious.

Generally speaking, characters in the Aliens universe are actually more ignorant about the creatures than the audience is. Core knowledge can be communicated pretty easily:

 

* Aliens are a strong, possibly silicon-based lifeform that has acid for blood, a hard exoskeleton, two mouths (one piston mouth inside the "outer" mouth), and sharp tails.

* Aliens kill most things they come across, especially humans. However, aliens often take humans or other creatures back to their hive (see below).

* Aliens are cunning but not as intelligent as humans.

* Most aliens that folks see are "adult" form, but they are organized in hive communities. Hives feature a large queen that lays eggs. Eggs contain facehuggers that hatch out of the eggs when they are disturbed. As you might guess, facehuggers leap onto a person's face. After that, they anesthetize the victim and ram an ovipositor down his or her throat. An egg is laid in the victim's chest, which usually hatches as a "chestburster" (baby alien) in about 24 hours. The facehugger drops off and dies shortly after laying the egg, leaving the victim to stumble around for a while before dying a terrible death.

* The exact origins of the aliens are unknown, but they were initially discovered in the spaceship of an unknown sapient alien race alternately called the Pilots or Space Jockeys.

 

The human universe is actually not defined that much in the films. But here are the basics:

* Aliens films take place a few centuries from now.

* Humans have spread out in the Milky Way and have FTL travel capability (implicit but never shown). FTL travel still takes a long time, and people on FTL travel ships must enter a hibernation state called hypersleep.

* Human nations colonize space, with the focus being on the United Americas/United States.

* Mega corporations are more mega than ever. The focus is always on one dominant corporation called Weyland-Yutani. As the wiki indicates, the Company usually engages in the worst aspects of cutthroat corporate profiteering. W-Y seems obsessed with capturing live aliens (once identified) for experimentation and use as biological weapons. They have no problem with humans dying in the process.

* There is an Interstellar Commerce Commission (ICC) that regulates trade in space. They are generally seen as an obstacle to Weyland-Yutani snatching up aliens and transporting them all over the universe.

* Androids/synthetic persons exist in the universe. They are not common, but are used for a variety of purposes. They are typically indistinguishable from humans unless they are wounded (they "bleed" white). Androids are typically stronger and faster than humans, and are capable of surviving attacks that would easily kill a human. Some have behavioral "issues", and in the films they go through a number of different models/generations to deal with various mental problems they encounter.

* The US/UA has a colonial military force called the United States Colonial Marine Corps. These are basically space marines, but their equipment is nowhere near as heavy and crazy as (for example) Warhammer 40k stuff. They wear body armor, carry motion trackers to detect enemy movement, and have two signature weapons: the M41 pulse rifle and the M56 smartgun. The former is an assault rifle with an underslung grenade launcher and the latter is a big support weapon on an armature connected to the wielder's body. Smartguns also auto-track enemies, hence the name "smart"gun. They fly around space in big transports, land on planets using dropships, and roll around in big APCs. In all other ways, they are pretty much like regular American marines.

* It is suggested in various ways that there are other known alien lifeforms in the universe, but they are never shown. Whatever the nature of these other alien species, it is implicit that "the" aliens are much more dangerous as a race.

 

Thank you, Josh. It's a lot to absorb for someone totally unfamiliar with the "Alien" universe, but I am trying to assimilate it and my interest has been piqued by your comments.

 

I'll continue to check in here, and follow the hints given for the Aliens game. I've purchased every Obsidian game offered thus far; I'd like to continue to do so, even if it takes me into a universe with which I am completely unfamiliar.

This brings up a question that has been bothering me about this game. Will folks who know nothing about the Aliens & Predators franchise actually be able to follow and understand this game? I've never seen an Aliens & Predators movie, never played any of the games, and have absolutely no knowledge of the setting, concept, or inhabitants of the Alien & Predators world. Because of that, I haven't been able to muster up much interest, but if I hadn't played Baldurs Gate because I didn't know anything about Forgotten Realms I would have missed a great game.

 

The above comments seem to indicate that the game will take place entirely on a ship full of monsters... is this the case? Is the game set up expecting players to have a basic knowledge of the A&P setting, or will there be enough of a tutorial/introduction to explain the basics of the A&P concept to newbies like myself? Just curious.

Generally speaking, characters in the Aliens universe are actually more ignorant about the creatures than the audience is. Core knowledge can be communicated pretty easily:

 

* Aliens are a strong, possibly silicon-based lifeform that has acid for blood, a hard exoskeleton, two mouths (one piston mouth inside the "outer" mouth), and sharp tails.

* Aliens kill most things they come across, especially humans. However, aliens often take humans or other creatures back to their hive (see below).

* Aliens are cunning but not as intelligent as humans.

* Most aliens that folks see are "adult" form, but they are organized in hive communities. Hives feature a large queen that lays eggs. Eggs contain facehuggers that hatch out of the eggs when they are disturbed. As you might guess, facehuggers leap onto a person's face. After that, they anesthetize the victim and ram an ovipositor down his or her throat. An egg is laid in the victim's chest, which usually hatches as a "chestburster" (baby alien) in about 24 hours. The facehugger drops off and dies shortly after laying the egg, leaving the victim to stumble around for a while before dying a terrible death.

* The exact origins of the aliens are unknown, but they were initially discovered in the spaceship of an unknown sapient alien race alternately called the Pilots or Space Jockeys.

 

The human universe is actually not defined that much in the films. But here are the basics:

* Aliens films take place a few centuries from now.

* Humans have spread out in the Milky Way and have FTL travel capability (implicit but never shown). FTL travel still takes a long time, and people on FTL travel ships must enter a hibernation state called hypersleep.

* Human nations colonize space, with the focus being on the United Americas/United States.

* Mega corporations are more mega than ever. The focus is always on one dominant corporation called Weyland-Yutani. As the wiki indicates, the Company usually engages in the worst aspects of cutthroat corporate profiteering. W-Y seems obsessed with capturing live aliens (once identified) for experimentation and use as biological weapons. They have no problem with humans dying in the process.

* There is an Interstellar Commerce Commission (ICC) that regulates trade in space. They are generally seen as an obstacle to Weyland-Yutani snatching up aliens and transporting them all over the universe.

* Androids/synthetic persons exist in the universe. They are not common, but are used for a variety of purposes. They are typically indistinguishable from humans unless they are wounded (they "bleed" white). Androids are typically stronger and faster than humans, and are capable of surviving attacks that would easily kill a human. Some have behavioral "issues", and in the films they go through a number of different models/generations to deal with various mental problems they encounter.

* The US/UA has a colonial military force called the United States Colonial Marine Corps. These are basically space marines, but their equipment is nowhere near as heavy and crazy as (for example) Warhammer 40k stuff. They wear body armor, carry motion trackers to detect enemy movement, and have two signature weapons: the M41 pulse rifle and the M56 smartgun. The former is an assault rifle with an underslung grenade launcher and the latter is a big support weapon on an armature connected to the wielder's body. Smartguns also auto-track enemies, hence the name "smart"gun. They fly around space in big transports, land on planets using dropships, and roll around in big APCs. In all other ways, they are pretty much like regular American marines.

* It is suggested in various ways that there are other known alien lifeforms in the universe, but they are never shown. Whatever the nature of these other alien species, it is implicit that "the" aliens are much more dangerous as a race.

 

Thank you, Josh. It's a lot to absorb for someone totally unfamiliar with the "Alien" universe, but I am trying to assimilate it and my interest has been piqued by your comments.

 

I'll continue to check in here, and follow the hints given for the Aliens game. I've purchased every Obsidian game offered thus far; I'd like to continue to do so, even if it takes me into a universe with which I am completely unfamiliar.

Here's a suggestion. Get the Alien movies (not AvP!) and enjoy!

Considering Alien has an excellent female lead character, I'd imagine the movie would be just ~Di's cup of tea.

It's going to be good and it's going to consistently run at 30+ fps. That's all I can say right now.

 

That's somethin

 

Hopefully my pc won't cough up blood trying to reach those 30+fps :lol:

Thank you, Josh. It's a lot to absorb for someone totally unfamiliar with the "Alien" universe, but I am trying to assimilate it and my interest has been piqued by your comments.

 

I'll continue to check in here, and follow the hints given for the Aliens game. I've purchased every Obsidian game offered thus far; I'd like to continue to do so, even if it takes me into a universe with which I am completely unfamiliar.

 

Nah just get the movie and watch it. There is very little universe building in the Alien movies. They arent space opera like Star Wars, they are pure sf horror, where everything takes a back seat to making the audience piss their pants.

That might sound a bit shallow, but trust me, its not. The "alien" creature is perhaps the only really "alien" alien I've seen in Hollywood. Its so freaky, you gotta ask yourself what Giger (its creator) was on, when he made it.

* The US/UA has a colonial military force called the United States Colonial Marine Corps. These are basically space marines, but their equipment is nowhere near as heavy and crazy as (for example) Warhammer 40k stuff. They wear body armor, carry motion trackers to detect enemy movement, and have two signature weapons: the M41 pulse rifle and the M56 smartgun. The former is an assault rifle with an underslung grenade launcher and the latter is a big support weapon on an armature connected to the wielder's body. Smartguns also auto-track enemies, hence the name "smart"gun. They fly around space in big transports, land on planets using dropships, and roll around in big APCs. In all other ways, they are pretty much like regular American marines.

They also have women serving in combat roles.

They also have women serving in combat roles.

tru.dat

 

http://www.swartzer.com/kadanzer/images/vasquez.jpg

There is the question of the Aliens constitution. In the first movie it was nigh undestructable, in the second they killed them by the dozen.

I don't think this is the case. I think the aliens were basically the same in both movies, but in the second movie the humans had access to weapons. I mean, in the first movie they were trying to fight a rather well-grown alien unarmed! I remember that they managed to hurt it and its blood almost killed them all..

 

Ok, maybe I need to rewatch the first one

They also have women serving in combat roles.

tru.dat

 

http://www.swartzer.com/kadanzer/images/vasquez.jpg

 

Vasquez

 

Hudson: Hey Vasquez, have you ever been mistaken for a man?

Vasquez: No. Have you?

 

Vasquez: Look, man. I only need to know one thing: where they are.

Drake: Go, Vasquez. Kick ass.

Vasquez: Anytime, anywhere, man!

Hudson: Right, right. Somebody said "alien" she thought they said "illegal alien" and signed up!

Vasquez: **** you, man!

Hudson: Anytime, anywhere.

In Aliens they describe an 'over and under 30 millimeter pump action grenade launcher'. The gun has three barrels. Shoots bullets from the middle, and grenades from the aforementioned upper and lower grenade launcher.

 

Although, the upper launcher doesn't look like it has a pump action actuator, Just a little nitpick

Edited October 7, 200817 yr by Gorgon

What a woman!

In Aliens they describe an 'over and under 30 millimeter pump action grenade launcher'. The gun has three barrels. Shoots bullets from the middle, and grenades from the aforementioned upper and lower grenade launcher.

 

Although, the upper launcher doesn't look like it has a pump action actuator, Just a little nitpick

The M41's design is a little misleading (in part because it's a hodgepodge of parts). First, it has an upper ejection port even though it uses 10mm caseless ammo. Second, I think over/under refers to the arrangement of the 10mm caseless and 30mm rifle grenade barrels, not that it has two grenade launchers. The upper muzzle port is the 10mm port (small) and the lower is the 30mm port (big). It also only has two trigger mechanisms, so unless there's something wacky going on, it's still just drawing ammunition from two places and firing from two muzzles.

Also, I would support the idea that the alien in the first film was much more effective because it was dealing with a totally unaware, unprepared, and under-equipped crew. If you are forced to fight with improvised short-ranged weapons like incinerators and cattle prods, things are bound to be difficult.

This may work well in a film, but are there even thoughts to establish some similar desperate situations in the game? This kinda is contradicting, because in RPGs you usually grow the ability of your character, thus also want to feel more powerful. How do the Aliens adapt to this progress?

I hope it suffices to say that I think traditional RPG progression (character and equipment) works well in the Alien/Aliens setting.

 

As another minor note on the grenade launcher, it's a little weird because it's a SPAS-12 base, but the ejection port is used for loading in the film. A lot of shotguns (including the SPAS-12), load from the bottom and eject out the right side. Nothing ever ejects from Aliens M41s, so... it's a little off there, too.

Personally I think combat in Aliens should be as challenging as possible. Battles should feel like they're being won by the skin of our teeth, and not without losses. Permadeath should be a requirement. Perhaps the party roster might be handled like JA2, only with deeper characters. Characters that the player can care about.

Yeah, a tyte squad you can care about, kinda like BiA. Wait, doesn't Alien Colonial Marines already do that too?

Edited October 7, 200817 yr by Morgoth

The M41's design is a little misleading (in part because it's a hodgepodge of parts). First, it has an upper ejection port even though it uses 10mm caseless ammo. Second, I think over/under refers to the arrangement of the 10mm caseless and 30mm rifle grenade barrels, not that it has two grenade launchers. The upper muzzle port is the 10mm port (small) and the lower is the 30mm port (big). It also only has two trigger mechanisms, so unless there's something wacky going on, it's still just drawing ammunition from two places and firing from two muzzles.

 

Yep, I've watched the movie the other day. The guy says it fast but that is what he means. Besides two grenade launchers wouldnt make much sense, even the one some modern assault rifles have impacts weight (is cumbersome) and thus aiming...

 

Lol it just dawned on me M41 = M14, talk about creativity

Personally I think combat in Aliens should be as challenging as possible. Battles should feel like they're being won by the skin of our teeth, and not without losses. Permadeath should be a requirement. Perhaps the party roster might be handled like JA2, only with deeper characters. Characters that the player can care about.

 

I agree. Perhaps a different kind of injury system would help to panic the player? Like bleeding, open wounds, severed limbs (or fingers, ears whatever), movement disabilities (the acid of the aliens blood kills almost as many people as the aliens themselves), eye injuries? Make every second a real fight to death... Though this would be very hard to implement.

 

I think there should be as little soldier NPC's in the party as possible. Soldiers are by nature expendable and their loss isn't as much of an impact as a civilian, woman, child... That will make the players sympathise with the NPC's more.

Permadeath should be a requirement.

I like permadeath, but it's pretty much an abandoned game mechanic. People just reload, which kinda defeats the point, right?

 

And I'm not sure it's feasible to create enough characters that are good enough for the playet to care about if the NPC pool is to be large enough to have "disposable" characters...

Edited October 7, 200817 yr by random n00b

Whatever, as long as the team doesn't just doze off and wake up none worse for the wear NWN2 style.

I really hate NPCs who are immortal because they have lines later on. Granted that's impossible to avoid, but lets have as few as humanly possible. This is much worse of course when they are part of the combat gameplay.

Edited October 7, 200817 yr by Gorgon