Finland is Winland

[mkreku]

To me, the "society made me do it" excuse is a lame cliche..

Yeah, sure, whatever. But if you're ever interested in broadening your horizons a little, try taking a class in psychology. Read up on it a little. It's so easy to have opinions about everything, especially stuff you have no knowledge about. What's so surprising is how willing people are in spreading said uninformed opinions everywhere, even if it only makes themselves look uneducated.

 

You can start with this: What happens when you put good people in an evil place?

[alanschu]

Just butting in here for a moment. I think you have rather a romanticized concept of felons as people whom society has tread upon, and who have no choice but to turn to a life of crime. Of course there are people from poor and abusive families that have turned to crime; but most people, the vast majority of people from poor and abusive families do not turn to crime. And frankly I suspect if there were statistics available to segregate criminals by their upbringing you'd find the at least half, perhaps more, of these criminals came from middle-class families, were not abused and decided to rob people and steal cars because it was just easier to take other people's stuff than it was to get a job and earn their own stuff. Simple as that.

 

I've worked closely with police departments in the past, and trust me when I say that white, middle-class felons were the rule, not the exception. Crime is not forced upon a person because of environment. Crime is chosen by a person because of his/her own narcissism and lack of conscience; it's simply easier to take what one wants than to work for it. Period. Blaming society for the choices made by individuals is illogical and for the most part is demonstrably untrue.

 

You should check this out: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/data/table_43.html

 

The number of Afro- Americans in the US: roughly 39 million.

 

The number of Caucasian Americans in the US: roughly 223 million.

 

Based on those numbers, Caucasian American criminals should be a little more than five times more common than Afro- American criminals. However, the FBI study clearly states that "white" criminals outnumber "black" criminals only by slightly more than 2 to 1. Only three different crimes are commited by as many (proportionally) Afro- Americans as Caucasians: Driving under the influence of alcohol, breaking liquor laws and drunkenness.

 

Conclusion: Afro- American citizens have a remarkably high rate of criminal behaviour.

 

I also checked this matter at the Swedish Council of Crime Prevention (BR

[alanschu]

That is why I believe that using the "societal" crutch to excuse crime will in the long run be detrimental not only to that same society, but to the individuals comprising it as well.

 

 

Hear hear I agree. I mean, look at women and women's rights. The reason why they were subjugated throughout history (and still now) is because they chose to accept that lifestyle. Society wasn't holding them back, they just weren't motivated and chose to let people exploit them and take advantage of them.

 

All those activists just wasted everyone's time. Society didn't hinder their ability, and it wasn't as though there was systemic and institutional discrimination against them. For whatever reason, they just chose to sit idly by.

[mkreku]

That is why I believe that using the "societal" crutch to excuse crime will in the long run be detrimental not only to that same society, but to the individuals comprising it as well.

 

 

Hear hear I agree. I mean, look at women and women's rights. The reason why they were subjugated throughout history (and still now) is because they chose to accept that lifestyle. Society wasn't holding them back, they just weren't motivated and chose to let people exploit them and take advantage of them.

 

All those activists just wasted everyone's time. Society didn't hinder their ability, and it wasn't as though there was systemic and institutional discrimination against them. For whatever reason, they just chose to sit idly by.

Haha, I love this post!

 

alanschu back in good old form

[Gorgon]

Regardless of circumstance I think it's a healthy attitude to have, that your responsibility, your choices, always stretches further than your circumstance. It's doesn't correlate well if you have to say something about the whole of society though.

 

Choices disappear in statistics and what we are left with is the whole of human nature.

[alanschu]

Stating that societal influences can predispose people to crime (or whatever) does not absolve people of their responsibility of committing the act. What it does do though, is try to help understand what would have caused someone to behave in a certain way, and why would they make that decision?

[Gorgon]

It narrows choices and probabilities. The choices still exist.

[Volourn]

Nope. Don't buy it. Many people gtow up in the 'slums' for exmaple, and ar epolls. Many of them do NOt turn to theft or other crimes. Go figure.

 

Society plays some role, but ultimately the individual's personality, ethics, morals, and outlook are their own.

 

If this wasn't the case, the North Amerika power base would have still been pro slavery yet enough 'whities' back in the day were anti slavery depsite the fact that it was 'legal'. R00fles!

[alanschu]

Nope. Don't buy it. Many people gtow up in the 'slums' for exmaple, and ar epolls. Many of them do NOt turn to theft or other crimes. Go figure.

 

So? No one has said that poor people turn to thefts or other crimes. Different factors will play a role, and no one here has discounted that the person himself has responsibility. There's also discrimination on the other side. The poor will be overrepresented in the criminal justice system because of inherent discrimination. It's more difficult for them to afford legal counsel, yet at the same time, many do not qualify for legal aid. Hence, they have to represent themselves to the best of their ability, which isn't going to be very well. It's also more likely that you will be given more lenient treatment if you're of a particular race and social status.

 

It works both ways. If it's ultimately people's choices though, what's causing the poor and minorities to commit all these crimes, since based on a percentage of population, they are overrepresented in the justice systems. If it was just people making the decisions, then it should be more uniformly distributed, as it'd be more random. But it's not, not by a long shot.

 

 

If this wasn't the case, the North Amerika power base would have still been pro slavery yet enough 'whities' back in the day were anti slavery depsite the fact that it was 'legal'. R00fles!

 

I am not even sure how this is an example of anything.

[Aram]

North Amerika power

Stop spelling it like that. It's incorrect. It's spelled with a C.

R00fles!

And that's not a word.

[Walsingham]

R00fles are a kind of delicious pastry. With apricot jam in. Try it. It makes Volo seem far more cheerful.