Kotor3: Ideas, Suggestions, Discussion Part 26

[Albion72]

My statements will be in BOLD, just in case I fail hard at this quote break-up thing.

 

The characters wouldn't have to do the EXACT same things... but they would have to be on the same mission (with the exception of LS/DS ending difference). What I mean by plot fits both is that it wouldn't happen like this: In the Revan campaign, (LS) you destroy the True Sith Empire. In the Exile Campaign (LS) Revan dies, and exile barely fractures True Sith Empire. That kind of plot difference would be stupid. It would have to make sense and the plots would have to be similar.

Except that to save alot of time and work the devs would make the PC go through the exact same thing regardless of who they were, because they don't want to have to write and program in two entirely separate stories. Sure they may do something like have 2 quests have slightly different outcomes but that'd only really be cosmetic changes while the main story plowed along on it's one track. This is the reason why newer games that say "we have choice yes we do!" usually have the choices be outside the realm of plot choices, or have one or two very pivotal choices about how the game ends and thats it.

This is true, but the plot has already been nudged in the right direction from K1 - K2. If K3 were to be produced, Revan would be in the unknown regions doing SOMETHING to/with the Sith Empire. This is something they can build on that shouldn't take too much time. Besides, I'd rather a company take 20 years to finish a masterpiece like the KOTOR series, than rush another game like K2 and miss a lot of key features. I disagree with your marketing statement. Yes, K3 cannot be released DURING the MMO's prime time. But it also can't be released (or announced) before the MMO, as enough hype is already built around the MMO. It must be done AFTER the release of the MMO, some time after, I'd have to say 3-6 months after. This way MMO hype has died down. (Unless its a smash success with 11 million players like WoW, but this is doubtful).

Except that with the MMO running the marketing department at lucasarts would probably sink the project out of the game because it could have a negative impact on the MMO. I mean look at WoW, blizzard isn't going to make a Warcraft 4 while it's running because they've got themselves a cash cow that can easily bankroll anything blizzard would want. Also an MMO only needs 1 or 2 hundred thousand players from anywhere to be successful at raking in the cash. City of Heroes only has 107k or so players and it's survived longer than most single player games.

It would be a chore. And Revan/Exile would be easy, just allow players to customize them from pre-existing K1-K2 faces. (Maybe the graphics will be better but the faces will still be similar). AND LOLOLOLOLOLOL at those threads... LOL. EDIT: Oh, and I failed hard at the quote thing.

 

to open (start) quotes you just put quote in brackets, to close them you put /quote in brackets.

 

Except that not only would you have to give Revan and Exile faces you'd also have to give them more of a voice than just "Yeah?" and "EEEEYAH!" Also you'd need to give them a more definitive personality because in the games that they headlined their personalities were blank until a player made choices. Basically Revan and Exiles personalities are defined by player actions in their respective games, and thus when whoever goes back to write for them they'd either have to make the most generic personality known to man or they'd have to make some rabid fanboi hate them because it wasn't "their" Revan and Exile.

 

1. I doubt the devs would do that. Thats a bad idea. If they make a K3, they will take their time and make it good.

 

2. It wouldn't have a negative impact on the MMO (I don't have a lot of time to explain I'm tryping this fast will come back later).

 

3. Use the voices that do the YEAH! stuff. Have a LS oriented Revan and a DS oriented Revan. (will explain how this won't be generic later on).

[Calax]

My statements will be in BOLD, just in case I fail hard at this quote break-up thing.

 

The characters wouldn't have to do the EXACT same things... but they would have to be on the same mission (with the exception of LS/DS ending difference). What I mean by plot fits both is that it wouldn't happen like this: In the Revan campaign, (LS) you destroy the True Sith Empire. In the Exile Campaign (LS) Revan dies, and exile barely fractures True Sith Empire. That kind of plot difference would be stupid. It would have to make sense and the plots would have to be similar.

Except that to save alot of time and work the devs would make the PC go through the exact same thing regardless of who they were, because they don't want to have to write and program in two entirely separate stories. Sure they may do something like have 2 quests have slightly different outcomes but that'd only really be cosmetic changes while the main story plowed along on it's one track. This is the reason why newer games that say "we have choice yes we do!" usually have the choices be outside the realm of plot choices, or have one or two very pivotal choices about how the game ends and thats it.

This is true, but the plot has already been nudged in the right direction from K1 - K2. If K3 were to be produced, Revan would be in the unknown regions doing SOMETHING to/with the Sith Empire. This is something they can build on that shouldn't take too much time. Besides, I'd rather a company take 20 years to finish a masterpiece like the KOTOR series, than rush another game like K2 and miss a lot of key features. I disagree with your marketing statement. Yes, K3 cannot be released DURING the MMO's prime time. But it also can't be released (or announced) before the MMO, as enough hype is already built around the MMO. It must be done AFTER the release of the MMO, some time after, I'd have to say 3-6 months after. This way MMO hype has died down. (Unless its a smash success with 11 million players like WoW, but this is doubtful).

Except that with the MMO running the marketing department at lucasarts would probably sink the project out of the game because it could have a negative impact on the MMO. I mean look at WoW, blizzard isn't going to make a Warcraft 4 while it's running because they've got themselves a cash cow that can easily bankroll anything blizzard would want. Also an MMO only needs 1 or 2 hundred thousand players from anywhere to be successful at raking in the cash. City of Heroes only has 107k or so players and it's survived longer than most single player games.

It would be a chore. And Revan/Exile would be easy, just allow players to customize them from pre-existing K1-K2 faces. (Maybe the graphics will be better but the faces will still be similar). AND LOLOLOLOLOLOL at those threads... LOL. EDIT: Oh, and I failed hard at the quote thing.

 

to open (start) quotes you just put quote in brackets, to close them you put /quote in brackets.

 

Except that not only would you have to give Revan and Exile faces you'd also have to give them more of a voice than just "Yeah?" and "EEEEYAH!" Also you'd need to give them a more definitive personality because in the games that they headlined their personalities were blank until a player made choices. Basically Revan and Exiles personalities are defined by player actions in their respective games, and thus when whoever goes back to write for them they'd either have to make the most generic personality known to man or they'd have to make some rabid fanboi hate them because it wasn't "their" Revan and Exile.

 

1. I doubt the devs would do that. Thats a bad idea. If they make a K3, they will take their time and make it good.

 

2. It wouldn't have a negative impact on the MMO (I don't have a lot of time to explain I'm tryping this fast will come back later).

 

3. Use the voices that do the YEAH! stuff. Have a LS oriented Revan and a DS oriented Revan. (will explain how this won't be generic later on).

I've never seen a Game that contained 2 full story lines that are completely divergent of each other to the point that it's two separate experiences. I've seen RTS's with this but then RTS's are easier to build and script because there isn't much dialogue or story telling involved. RPG's on the other hand require so much Dialogue that you'd probably triple the amount of time needed to make the game to fit that second story line in with assorted characters and environments.

 

It would have a negative impact on the mmo because if you could get an experiance similar to the MMO from somthing that required a single payment rather than a subscription then you'd go for the single payment plan.

 

For all we know the screaming that you hear in K1 and K2 could have just been the sound tech who barely knows how to act. I wouldn't want Revan and Exile to be monotone.

[Jediphile]

I've never seen a Game that contained 2 full story lines that are completely divergent of each other to the point that it's two separate experiences. I've seen RTS's with this but then RTS's are easier to build and script because there isn't much dialogue or story telling involved. RPG's on the other hand require so much Dialogue that you'd probably triple the amount of time needed to make the game to fit that second story line in with assorted characters and environments.

 

Right. Computer games are an industry. If you can sell a product equally well with less cost to manpower to produce it, then that's what you do, and since modern cRPGs require voice-acting, multiple scenarios are even less likely, because they require not only more work for the designers and programmers, but also for the voice-actors. Making one game with two divergent plots is just not going to happen. I was impressed they even bothered to reflect the multiple genders and alignments of both Revan and the exile in TSL.

 

It would have a negative impact on the mmo because if you could get an experiance similar to the MMO from somthing that required a single payment rather than a subscription then you'd go for the single payment plan.

 

Well, I agree it has negative impact, but I don't think that's the deciding factor. The simple truth is that TOR is the spiritual successor to KotOR, and according to LA, KotOR is the most successful Star Wars game they ever made. They don't want two games in the same franchise competing with each other. If there is both a KotOR3 and TOR, then there is little doubt that fewer of us will be playing the MMO than if there is just TOR. Oversaturation in the market is something the entertainment industry is very wary of.

 

For all we know the screaming that you hear in K1 and K2 could have just been the sound tech who barely knows how to act. I wouldn't want Revan and Exile to be monotone.

 

Actually, Revan's male voice in KotOR for those comments was that of Rino Romano. He has since voiced The Batman and Caramon Majere in Dragonlance. I think that makes him qualified...

Edited December 2, 2008 by Jediphile

[Calax]

It would have a negative impact on the mmo because if you could get an experiance similar to the MMO from somthing that required a single payment rather than a subscription then you'd go for the single payment plan.

 

Well, I agree it has negative impact, but I don't think that's the deciding factor. The simple truth is that TOR is the spiritual successor to KotOR, and according to LA, KotOR is the most successful Star Wars game they ever made. They don't want two games in the same franchise competing with each other. If there is both a KotOR3 and TOR, then there is little doubt that fewer of us will be playing the MMO than if there is just TOR. Oversaturation in the market is something the entertainment industry is very wary of.

at least not of the same genre. They'd have no problem with releaseing Tie Fighter II and TOR at the same time because they draw on different markets. (Tie Fighter II is in my fevered dreams)

For all we know the screaming that you hear in K1 and K2 could have just been the sound tech who barely knows how to act. I wouldn't want Revan and Exile to be monotone.

 

Actually, Revan's male voice in KotOR for those comments was that of Rino Romano. He has since voiced The Batman and Caramon Majere in Dragonlance. I think that makes him qualified...

True he is qualified, but I'm sure that the developers of a Kotor 3 wouldn't want to give Revan a very solid personality all things considered. I mean he has to be a blank slate to allow for the whole Good/Evil choice. I suppose if they made Revan female and had Jennifer Hale (bastila and female Shepard from Mass Effect) do it they might get away with it because Hale is SO good.

Edited December 3, 2008 by Calax

[Albion72]

It would have a negative impact on the mmo because if you could get an experiance similar to the MMO from somthing that required a single payment rather than a subscription then you'd go for the single payment plan.

 

Well, I agree it has negative impact, but I don't think that's the deciding factor. The simple truth is that TOR is the spiritual successor to KotOR, and according to LA, KotOR is the most successful Star Wars game they ever made. They don't want two games in the same franchise competing with each other. If there is both a KotOR3 and TOR, then there is little doubt that fewer of us will be playing the MMO than if there is just TOR. Oversaturation in the market is something the entertainment industry is very wary of.

at least not of the same genre. They'd have no problem with releaseing Tie Fighter II and TOR at the same time because they draw on different markets. (Tie Fighter II is in my fevered dreams)

For all we know the screaming that you hear in K1 and K2 could have just been the sound tech who barely knows how to act. I wouldn't want Revan and Exile to be monotone.

 

Actually, Revan's male voice in KotOR for those comments was that of Rino Romano. He has since voiced The Batman and Caramon Majere in Dragonlance. I think that makes him qualified...

True he is qualified, but I'm sure that the developers of a Kotor 3 wouldn't want to give Revan a very solid personality all things considered. I mean he has to be a blank slate to allow for the whole Good/Evil choice. I suppose if they made Revan female and had Jennifer Hale (bastila and female Shepard from Mass Effect) do it they might get away with it because Hale is SO good.

 

1. KOTOR and the MMO draw on different markets as well. KOTOR III would be singleplayer story-telling experience, whereas an MMO is going to be an MMO.

 

2. People will deal with someone qualified voicing Revan/Exile. They had to deal with it with EVERY SUPER HERO from comic books, and not only did they have to deal with the voices of these super heroes, they had to deal with people actually ACTING like them. People are still die-hard fans.

 

3. Going back to our previous argument on the negative impact of the MMO. KOTOR III Draws on an entirely different market. There are some people (like myself) who play MMOs and singleplayers, but there are lot of people who are strictly either one. And releasing K3 wouldn't make people quit the MMO, it would probably make them play it less. This wouldn't matter considering you pay for a month of play time.

[Jediphile]

1. KOTOR and the MMO draw on different markets as well. KOTOR III would be singleplayer story-telling experience, whereas an MMO is going to be an MMO.

 

2. People will deal with someone qualified voicing Revan/Exile. They had to deal with it with EVERY SUPER HERO from comic books, and not only did they have to deal with the voices of these super heroes, they had to deal with people actually ACTING like them. People are still die-hard fans.

 

3. Going back to our previous argument on the negative impact of the MMO. KOTOR III Draws on an entirely different market. There are some people (like myself) who play MMOs and singleplayers, but there are lot of people who are strictly either one. And releasing K3 wouldn't make people quit the MMO, it would probably make them play it less. This wouldn't matter considering you pay for a month of play time.

 

1. I disagree completely. Both are CRPGs. The difference between an MMORPG and a SPCRPG is small to most people, and most probably to those exploring the market. Both are about creating a character and building that character with a level or skill based system. A different market would be if one was RTS like Empire at War or FPS like Battlefront.

 

2. Keep in mind that just Revan's voice for "ready" comments in KotOR1 was debated severely. It's probably no accident the exile is utterly quiet throughout TSL.

 

3. And if they play less, they might not pay the MMOney for a few months. That's exactly the reason there won't be a K3. You don't oversaturate the market. That's the reason LA gave for releasing only so many Star Wars games per year.

[Albion72]

1. KOTOR and the MMO draw on different markets as well. KOTOR III would be singleplayer story-telling experience, whereas an MMO is going to be an MMO.

 

2. People will deal with someone qualified voicing Revan/Exile. They had to deal with it with EVERY SUPER HERO from comic books, and not only did they have to deal with the voices of these super heroes, they had to deal with people actually ACTING like them. People are still die-hard fans.

 

3. Going back to our previous argument on the negative impact of the MMO. KOTOR III Draws on an entirely different market. There are some people (like myself) who play MMOs and singleplayers, but there are lot of people who are strictly either one. And releasing K3 wouldn't make people quit the MMO, it would probably make them play it less. This wouldn't matter considering you pay for a month of play time.

 

1. I disagree completely. Both are CRPGs. The difference between an MMORPG and a SPCRPG is small to most people, and most probably to those exploring the market. Both are about creating a character and building that character with a level or skill based system. A different market would be if one was RTS like Empire at War or FPS like Battlefront.

 

2. Keep in mind that just Revan's voice for "ready" comments in KotOR1 was debated severely. It's probably no accident the exile is utterly quiet throughout TSL.

 

3. And if they play less, they might not pay the MMOney for a few months. That's exactly the reason there won't be a K3. You don't oversaturate the market. That's the reason LA gave for releasing only so many Star Wars games per year.

 

1. Just because both are RPGs does not mean both are the same type of game. MMO and Singleplayer have very many differences. True, in both you create a character and build him up through levels and what not, but that is the ONLY similarity.

 

MMOs are all about achieving things, getting better gear, gaining exp for the next level so you are one level closer to the endgame, which is supposed (supposed) to be the funnest aspect. Plot is second in line in MMOs. Besides, you can't have groundbreaking plot in an MMO and feel good about it when 100,000 other people have done the same quest and are running around. Plus if you do a quest, and then someone else does it, it kind of invalidates the whole point of you doing it, considering the problem still exists because the person who issues the quest is still there. Singleplayer puts plot first (judging by the type of singleplayer game, Singleplayer RPGs usually put plot first, unless its like oblivion, but everything you do in that game has some backstory it it, but thats besides the point. There are people who will never play MMOs and there are people who strongly dislike Singleplayer games, IMO, it still appeals to different markets. MMO Market... WAY different that SP marketing. WAY different.

 

2. This isn't an argument. I don't know much about the guy who voiced Revan in K1.

 

3. I disagree. Just because they are going to playing a second game other than the MMO, does not mean they will drop their subscription MMO. Thats like saying, "Its either you play the MMO, or you play single-players, you are not capable of doing both." I am an example. I am not a special case, I am a common person. I have a constant subscription to my favorite MMO PlanetSide, but I rarely play it maybe 5 times a month. Other than that I am playing a plethora of other games.

[Jediphile]

Just because they are going to playing a second game other than the MMO, does not mean they will drop their subscription MMO. Thats like saying, "Its either you play the MMO, or you play single-players, you are not capable of doing both." I am an example. I am not a special case, I am a common person. I have a constant subscription to my favorite MMO PlanetSide, but I rarely play it maybe 5 times a month. Other than that I am playing a plethora of other games.

 

Well, you might play both games, but people like me are examples too. I like the single-player aspect of KotOR because it focuses on better plot IMHO, but LA/Bioware think that if they can get me over to the MMO, they can make more money of people like me, because I'll have to pay the subscription fee.

 

However, if there is a single-player game, then there is no way I'll do that, and so K3 and TOR effectively become competing product for me - both are RPGs, both are Star Wars, both are set in the Old Republic era, both focus on the threat from the true Sith to the Republic... But I'll take K3 over the MMO any day, and LA makes more money if I play the MMO. Therefore they won't make K3, because that way I'll have no choice but to play the MMO if I want to play in the Old Republic era. You might buy and play both, but I wouldn't, and so potential sales are still hurt by what would in my case have to be considered a competing product from the same company, and that product it also cost money for LA to develop.

 

Now, granted, I'm not the best example, because K3 or not, there is no way I'll be paying to play the MMO. None. If subscription was free, I might consider it, but since I'm supremely confident it won't be, it's just not going to happen. But there are those who'll be enticed to play the MMO because it's going to be the only KotOR-era game around. People who are like me, except that they might consider paying the subscription fee. LA will do whatever it takes to herd those people over to the MMO, because they can make more MMOney on game sale plus subscription fee that way than they can from single-player K3 which gives them just game sale profits alone. Hence, no K3 for us...

[Albion72]

Just because they are going to playing a second game other than the MMO, does not mean they will drop their subscription MMO. Thats like saying, "Its either you play the MMO, or you play single-players, you are not capable of doing both." I am an example. I am not a special case, I am a common person. I have a constant subscription to my favorite MMO PlanetSide, but I rarely play it maybe 5 times a month. Other than that I am playing a plethora of other games.

 

Well, you might play both games, but people like me are examples too. I like the single-player aspect of KotOR because it focuses on better plot IMHO, but LA/Bioware think that if they can get me over to the MMO, they can make more money of people like me, because I'll have to pay the subscription fee.

 

However, if there is a single-player game, then there is no way I'll do that, and so K3 and TOR effectively become competing product for me - both are RPGs, both are Star Wars, both are set in the Old Republic era, both focus on the threat from the true Sith to the Republic... But I'll take K3 over the MMO any day, and LA makes more money if I play the MMO. Therefore they won't make K3, because that way I'll have no choice but to play the MMO if I want to play in the Old Republic era. You might buy and play both, but I wouldn't, and so potential sales are still hurt by what would in my case have to be considered a competing product from the same company, and that product it also cost money for LA to develop.

 

Now, granted, I'm not the best example, because K3 or not, there is no way I'll be paying to play the MMO. None. If subscription was free, I might consider it, but since I'm supremely confident it won't be, it's just not going to happen. But there are those who'll be enticed to play the MMO because it's going to be the only KotOR-era game around. People who are like me, except that they might consider paying the subscription fee. LA will do whatever it takes to herd those people over to the MMO, because they can make more MMOney on game sale plus subscription fee that way than they can from single-player K3 which gives them just game sale profits alone. Hence, no K3 for us...

 

But you have stated yourself in other threads that you are not a fan of MMOs. Which is why the MMO does not appeal to people like you. The Singleplayer game does, thus, if they make a K3 and the MMO, they target the people who like EVERYTHING, not just one thing. Therefore, they have won on both fronts. (I think it was you who said you will not even try the MMO, because you don't like MMOs, you and a few others. Correct me if I am wrong).

[Calax]

Just because they are going to playing a second game other than the MMO, does not mean they will drop their subscription MMO. Thats like saying, "Its either you play the MMO, or you play single-players, you are not capable of doing both." I am an example. I am not a special case, I am a common person. I have a constant subscription to my favorite MMO PlanetSide, but I rarely play it maybe 5 times a month. Other than that I am playing a plethora of other games.

 

Well, you might play both games, but people like me are examples too. I like the single-player aspect of KotOR because it focuses on better plot IMHO, but LA/Bioware think that if they can get me over to the MMO, they can make more money of people like me, because I'll have to pay the subscription fee.

 

However, if there is a single-player game, then there is no way I'll do that, and so K3 and TOR effectively become competing product for me - both are RPGs, both are Star Wars, both are set in the Old Republic era, both focus on the threat from the true Sith to the Republic... But I'll take K3 over the MMO any day, and LA makes more money if I play the MMO. Therefore they won't make K3, because that way I'll have no choice but to play the MMO if I want to play in the Old Republic era. You might buy and play both, but I wouldn't, and so potential sales are still hurt by what would in my case have to be considered a competing product from the same company, and that product it also cost money for LA to develop.

 

Now, granted, I'm not the best example, because K3 or not, there is no way I'll be paying to play the MMO. None. If subscription was free, I might consider it, but since I'm supremely confident it won't be, it's just not going to happen. But there are those who'll be enticed to play the MMO because it's going to be the only KotOR-era game around. People who are like me, except that they might consider paying the subscription fee. LA will do whatever it takes to herd those people over to the MMO, because they can make more MMOney on game sale plus subscription fee that way than they can from single-player K3 which gives them just game sale profits alone. Hence, no K3 for us...

 

But you have stated yourself in other threads that you are not a fan of MMOs. Which is why the MMO does not appeal to people like you. The Singleplayer game does, thus, if they make a K3 and the MMO, they target the people who like EVERYTHING, not just one thing. Therefore, they have won on both fronts. (I think it was you who said you will not even try the MMO, because you don't like MMOs, you and a few others. Correct me if I am wrong).

There is a larger market for multiplayer games on the market now. Most games are laughed out of the building if they don't have a multiplayer feature. Also one of the draw backs of a single player experience is that you do a certain task once and you never go back to it, thus once you achieve everything in the game you have absolutely no reason to go back and play more, MMO's are built around continuing the experience. Also a few of your druthers have been remedied in Wrath of the Lich King, namely that in certain areas and during certain events you are running around in one of MANY versions of the zone. In the Death Knight starting area, you go through about 8 separate phases that show the rise of the scourge as it wipes out a Scarlet Crusade village. There are also versions of Stormwind and Orgrimmar and Undercity that are phased for certain missions. The biggest problem that the game has had is that they didn't give a seperate instance to each person on that quest. That would require to many resources but instead they've got a situation where you could walk in and not even see the plot points because somebody else finished it and it hasn't reset yet. Works wonderful for phased zones that you go through while wiping something out.

[DacenVellia]

Maybe KotOR3 doesn't have to be about Reven or the Exile, maybe it can be from another Sith or Jedi's point-of-view. From force users that we've left behind to re-build the republic.

 

In the game your charater would know that Reven left and would waiting for his/her return. You'd be searching known space trying to find out what happened to the exile. You could meet up with some old characters from KotOR 1 and 2.

 

The game doesn't have to be about going out and finding the True Sith, or about finding and helping Reven. Maybe the game could be about finding the exile and starting something else entirely different from what Reven was doing to help the republic. Maybe you'd help the republic in a complete different way.

 

This idea could make an interesting game, but I'm pretty sure most KOTOR fans are dying to know what Revan and the Exile are doing after K2 in the unknown regions.

 

I'd rather see a KotOR 3 where you are able to play a raw character. One game should be enough to cover the story and life of the pc.

[Albion72]

Just because they are going to playing a second game other than the MMO, does not mean they will drop their subscription MMO. Thats like saying, "Its either you play the MMO, or you play single-players, you are not capable of doing both." I am an example. I am not a special case, I am a common person. I have a constant subscription to my favorite MMO PlanetSide, but I rarely play it maybe 5 times a month. Other than that I am playing a plethora of other games.

 

Well, you might play both games, but people like me are examples too. I like the single-player aspect of KotOR because it focuses on better plot IMHO, but LA/Bioware think that if they can get me over to the MMO, they can make more money of people like me, because I'll have to pay the subscription fee.

 

However, if there is a single-player game, then there is no way I'll do that, and so K3 and TOR effectively become competing product for me - both are RPGs, both are Star Wars, both are set in the Old Republic era, both focus on the threat from the true Sith to the Republic... But I'll take K3 over the MMO any day, and LA makes more money if I play the MMO. Therefore they won't make K3, because that way I'll have no choice but to play the MMO if I want to play in the Old Republic era. You might buy and play both, but I wouldn't, and so potential sales are still hurt by what would in my case have to be considered a competing product from the same company, and that product it also cost money for LA to develop.

 

Now, granted, I'm not the best example, because K3 or not, there is no way I'll be paying to play the MMO. None. If subscription was free, I might consider it, but since I'm supremely confident it won't be, it's just not going to happen. But there are those who'll be enticed to play the MMO because it's going to be the only KotOR-era game around. People who are like me, except that they might consider paying the subscription fee. LA will do whatever it takes to herd those people over to the MMO, because they can make more MMOney on game sale plus subscription fee that way than they can from single-player K3 which gives them just game sale profits alone. Hence, no K3 for us...

 

But you have stated yourself in other threads that you are not a fan of MMOs. Which is why the MMO does not appeal to people like you. The Singleplayer game does, thus, if they make a K3 and the MMO, they target the people who like EVERYTHING, not just one thing. Therefore, they have won on both fronts. (I think it was you who said you will not even try the MMO, because you don't like MMOs, you and a few others. Correct me if I am wrong).

There is a larger market for multiplayer games on the market now. Most games are laughed out of the building if they don't have a multiplayer feature. Also one of the draw backs of a single player experience is that you do a certain task once and you never go back to it, thus once you achieve everything in the game you have absolutely no reason to go back and play more, MMO's are built around continuing the experience. Also a few of your druthers have been remedied in Wrath of the Lich King, namely that in certain areas and during certain events you are running around in one of MANY versions of the zone. In the Death Knight starting area, you go through about 8 separate phases that show the rise of the scourge as it wipes out a Scarlet Crusade village. There are also versions of Stormwind and Orgrimmar and Undercity that are phased for certain missions. The biggest problem that the game has had is that they didn't give a seperate instance to each person on that quest. That would require to many resources but instead they've got a situation where you could walk in and not even see the plot points because somebody else finished it and it hasn't reset yet. Works wonderful for phased zones that you go through while wiping something out.

 

Same for MMOs. All MMOs claim they have an endgame, but in reality its just hte same thing over and over. You raid and raid till you get your gear, then you PVP endlessly. Or you make another character, and do it all over.

[Calax]

Same for MMOs. All MMOs claim they have an endgame, but in reality its just hte same thing over and over. You raid and raid till you get your gear, then you PVP endlessly. Or you make another character, and do it all over.

Part of the End game in WoW at least is seeing the story culminate in one giant fight at the end of the raiding. I mean if we have to view WoW as the model for any MMO considering that it is the most successful mmo, and if the gaming industry has learned anything it's that you repeat successes and you get more successes. In World of Warcraft the main game and expansion each have story lines attached to them. In the original WoW, there were several endgame storyline. There was a storyline having to do with the Dwarven princess being "captured" by the Dark Iron dwarves, a War between the Dark Iron Dwarves and their master Ragnaros against the Blackrock clan and the Chromatic dragonflight and their master Nefarian, a story about the chief adviser to the reagent of Stormwind being the black dragon queen Onyxia. The invasion of the Quaji. And finially the return of the scourge in their floating fortress Naxxaramas (which has since been moved back to Northrend to shore up defenses there as the alliance and horde attack).

 

In Burning Crusade, there was a story about Kael'thas betraying his people and working for the Burning Legion, Lady Vasj (leader of the Naga) draining Zangermarsh to recreate the Well of the Ancients, and Illidan betraying the Legion and fortifying the Black Temple against their attack (which was lead by the Word boss Doomwalker) There was also a smaller storyline about trying to kill creatures that would grab black dragons and fling them into the spiked walls of Blades edge. Also Magtheradon trying to get free from imprisonment beneath Hellfire Citadel.

 

Wrath of the Lich King is about the Alliance and Horde heading to Northrend to take on the Scourge, This assault is stopped cold at Wrathgate where plot twists ensue. Also the previously Missing king of Stormwind returns and after the events at Wrathgate Declares war upon the horde once again. There is also a WoW version of PETA verses a band of hunters. and thats as far as Iv'e gotten.

[DAWUSS]

The big problem with MMOs is that all the quests are static, when, in reality, they should be dynamic. In a way, they currently feel like SPs except you have citizens that tend to behave out of character, frequently looking like fools, and their only purpose is to make your world feel more populated. How many times has Ceth Laike sent some somebody to investigate a crashed TIE Bomber site and then had him murder some Binayre Pirates and Flail Cutthroats, culminating in a space battle with the Binayre Blackjack?

 

To me, all quests should be dynamic, available to only one player (and any people who happen to be in that player's group), and the quests should continue through failures.

[Calax]

The big problem with MMOs is that all the quests are static, when, in reality, they should be dynamic. In a way, they currently feel like SPs except you have citizens that tend to behave out of character, frequently looking like fools, and their only purpose is to make your world feel more populated. How many times has Ceth Laike sent some somebody to investigate a crashed TIE Bomber site and then had him murder some Binayre Pirates and Flail Cutthroats, culminating in a space battle with the Binayre Blackjack?

 

To me, all quests should be dynamic, available to only one player (and any people who happen to be in that player's group), and the quests should continue through failures.

The phased zones of Wrath makes this different, instead of seeing a bunch of people pull somthing off instead you do it and are moved to a different phase of the zone where it's been done, and you don't watch a dozen other people do the same thing.

[Albion72]

Same for MMOs. All MMOs claim they have an endgame, but in reality its just hte same thing over and over. You raid and raid till you get your gear, then you PVP endlessly. Or you make another character, and do it all over.

Part of the End game in WoW at least is seeing the story culminate in one giant fight at the end of the raiding. I mean if we have to view WoW as the model for any MMO considering that it is the most successful mmo, and if the gaming industry has learned anything it's that you repeat successes and you get more successes. In World of Warcraft the main game and expansion each have story lines attached to them. In the original WoW, there were several endgame storyline. There was a storyline having to do with the Dwarven princess being "captured" by the Dark Iron dwarves, a War between the Dark Iron Dwarves and their master Ragnaros against the Blackrock clan and the Chromatic dragonflight and their master Nefarian, a story about the chief adviser to the reagent of Stormwind being the black dragon queen Onyxia. The invasion of the Quaji. And finially the return of the scourge in their floating fortress Naxxaramas (which has since been moved back to Northrend to shore up defenses there as the alliance and horde attack).

 

In Burning Crusade, there was a story about Kael'thas betraying his people and working for the Burning Legion, Lady Vasj (leader of the Naga) draining Zangermarsh to recreate the Well of the Ancients, and Illidan betraying the Legion and fortifying the Black Temple against their attack (which was lead by the Word boss Doomwalker) There was also a smaller storyline about trying to kill creatures that would grab black dragons and fling them into the spiked walls of Blades edge. Also Magtheradon trying to get free from imprisonment beneath Hellfire Citadel.

 

Wrath of the Lich King is about the Alliance and Horde heading to Northrend to take on the Scourge, This assault is stopped cold at Wrathgate where plot twists ensue. Also the previously Missing king of Stormwind returns and after the events at Wrathgate Declares war upon the horde once again. There is also a WoW version of PETA verses a band of hunters. and thats as far as Iv'e gotten.

 

Yes. Of course there is a "story" as you call it. Because with no "Structure" the game would be stupid and people wouldn't know what was going on. However, the depth of their "story" is not very deep. The RTS games were good, but WoW (Most MMOs I've ever played actually) idea of having a story is like, talking for a split second, then going and collecting some items or killing 30 of a certain monster then getting your reward. Sure, the endgame quests are probably pretty epic, but they HAD to make them that way, otherwise palyers would be mad that the storyline had a stupid ending.

[Calax]

Same for MMOs. All MMOs claim they have an endgame, but in reality its just hte same thing over and over. You raid and raid till you get your gear, then you PVP endlessly. Or you make another character, and do it all over.

Part of the End game in WoW at least is seeing the story culminate in one giant fight at the end of the raiding. I mean if we have to view WoW as the model for any MMO considering that it is the most successful mmo, and if the gaming industry has learned anything it's that you repeat successes and you get more successes. In World of Warcraft the main game and expansion each have story lines attached to them. In the original WoW, there were several endgame storyline. There was a storyline having to do with the Dwarven princess being "captured" by the Dark Iron dwarves, a War between the Dark Iron Dwarves and their master Ragnaros against the Blackrock clan and the Chromatic dragonflight and their master Nefarian, a story about the chief adviser to the reagent of Stormwind being the black dragon queen Onyxia. The invasion of the Quaji. And finially the return of the scourge in their floating fortress Naxxaramas (which has since been moved back to Northrend to shore up defenses there as the alliance and horde attack).

 

In Burning Crusade, there was a story about Kael'thas betraying his people and working for the Burning Legion, Lady Vasj (leader of the Naga) draining Zangermarsh to recreate the Well of the Ancients, and Illidan betraying the Legion and fortifying the Black Temple against their attack (which was lead by the Word boss Doomwalker) There was also a smaller storyline about trying to kill creatures that would grab black dragons and fling them into the spiked walls of Blades edge. Also Magtheradon trying to get free from imprisonment beneath Hellfire Citadel.

 

Wrath of the Lich King is about the Alliance and Horde heading to Northrend to take on the Scourge, This assault is stopped cold at Wrathgate where plot twists ensue. Also the previously Missing king of Stormwind returns and after the events at Wrathgate Declares war upon the horde once again. There is also a WoW version of PETA verses a band of hunters. and thats as far as Iv'e gotten.

 

Yes. Of course there is a "story" as you call it. Because with no "Structure" the game would be stupid and people wouldn't know what was going on. However, the depth of their "story" is not very deep. The RTS games were good, but WoW (Most MMOs I've ever played actually) idea of having a story is like, talking for a split second, then going and collecting some items or killing 30 of a certain monster then getting your reward. Sure, the endgame quests are probably pretty epic, but they HAD to make them that way, otherwise palyers would be mad that the storyline had a stupid ending.

Blizzard at least has gotten MUCH better at story telling. About half way through leveling in WoW there is a storyline where relations between the two factions (horde and alliance) which had been on good terms since the death of Illidan in Outlands, fall out because a faction within the horde, or more specifically, within the Foresaken, uses a bioweapon that kills EVERYTHING at the Wrathgate leading to Icecrown (except the Lich King who is forced to retreat). The Foresaken Faction (the Royal Apothecary Society) then ousts the Undead from their Capital in the Undercity and both factions head to the Undercity to retake it. The Alliance wants to retake it to rebuild Lorderon and the surrounding areas for the displaced refugees living in the south, while the Horde just wants to restore Sylvanas and her followers to their seat of power. The Horde enters through the front gate, and fights its way down to the throne room where they kill Varimathras, while the Alliance takes the Sewer entrance and finds and kills the leader of the Apothecary's. Then the Alliance makes its way to the throne room where King Varian becomes enraged at thralls continued support of Sylvanas and attacks the two horde leaders and their bodyguard, Jaina Proudmoore intervenes and ports Varian away to Stormwind to stop any of the faction lords from dying.

 

Through all of that the player is very much a part of it, He arrives at wrathgate after the Dragon's have immolated anything that the plague touched, and are sent to their leader where they eventually wind up helping in the assault on Undercity. It's REALLY well done (I've rarely had a single player experience that feels so epic or involved as that.) and it's at level 75/76 territory.

[Albion72]

Same for MMOs. All MMOs claim they have an endgame, but in reality its just hte same thing over and over. You raid and raid till you get your gear, then you PVP endlessly. Or you make another character, and do it all over.

Part of the End game in WoW at least is seeing the story culminate in one giant fight at the end of the raiding. I mean if we have to view WoW as the model for any MMO considering that it is the most successful mmo, and if the gaming industry has learned anything it's that you repeat successes and you get more successes. In World of Warcraft the main game and expansion each have story lines attached to them. In the original WoW, there were several endgame storyline. There was a storyline having to do with the Dwarven princess being "captured" by the Dark Iron dwarves, a War between the Dark Iron Dwarves and their master Ragnaros against the Blackrock clan and the Chromatic dragonflight and their master Nefarian, a story about the chief adviser to the reagent of Stormwind being the black dragon queen Onyxia. The invasion of the Quaji. And finially the return of the scourge in their floating fortress Naxxaramas (which has since been moved back to Northrend to shore up defenses there as the alliance and horde attack).

 

In Burning Crusade, there was a story about Kael'thas betraying his people and working for the Burning Legion, Lady Vasj (leader of the Naga) draining Zangermarsh to recreate the Well of the Ancients, and Illidan betraying the Legion and fortifying the Black Temple against their attack (which was lead by the Word boss Doomwalker) There was also a smaller storyline about trying to kill creatures that would grab black dragons and fling them into the spiked walls of Blades edge. Also Magtheradon trying to get free from imprisonment beneath Hellfire Citadel.

 

Wrath of the Lich King is about the Alliance and Horde heading to Northrend to take on the Scourge, This assault is stopped cold at Wrathgate where plot twists ensue. Also the previously Missing king of Stormwind returns and after the events at Wrathgate Declares war upon the horde once again. There is also a WoW version of PETA verses a band of hunters. and thats as far as Iv'e gotten.

 

Yes. Of course there is a "story" as you call it. Because with no "Structure" the game would be stupid and people wouldn't know what was going on. However, the depth of their "story" is not very deep. The RTS games were good, but WoW (Most MMOs I've ever played actually) idea of having a story is like, talking for a split second, then going and collecting some items or killing 30 of a certain monster then getting your reward. Sure, the endgame quests are probably pretty epic, but they HAD to make them that way, otherwise palyers would be mad that the storyline had a stupid ending.

Blizzard at least has gotten MUCH better at story telling. About half way through leveling in WoW there is a storyline where relations between the two factions (horde and alliance) which had been on good terms since the death of Illidan in Outlands, fall out because a faction within the horde, or more specifically, within the Foresaken, uses a bioweapon that kills EVERYTHING at the Wrathgate leading to Icecrown (except the Lich King who is forced to retreat). The Foresaken Faction (the Royal Apothecary Society) then ousts the Undead from their Capital in the Undercity and both factions head to the Undercity to retake it. The Alliance wants to retake it to rebuild Lorderon and the surrounding areas for the displaced refugees living in the south, while the Horde just wants to restore Sylvanas and her followers to their seat of power. The Horde enters through the front gate, and fights its way down to the throne room where they kill Varimathras, while the Alliance takes the Sewer entrance and finds and kills the leader of the Apothecary's. Then the Alliance makes its way to the throne room where King Varian becomes enraged at thralls continued support of Sylvanas and attacks the two horde leaders and their bodyguard, Jaina Proudmoore intervenes and ports Varian away to Stormwind to stop any of the faction lords from dying.

 

Through all of that the player is very much a part of it, He arrives at wrathgate after the Dragon's have immolated anything that the plague touched, and are sent to their leader where they eventually wind up helping in the assault on Undercity. It's REALLY well done (I've rarely had a single player experience that feels so epic or involved as that.) and it's at level 75/76 territory.

 

Props to them then. But it probably won't happen in this new Star Wars MMO. I played Age of Conan because it was bragging the lore was going to be deep. Guess what? The LORE was deep to a certain degree, but most of the quests were the aforementioned examples.

[Calax]

Props to them then. But it probably won't happen in this new Star Wars MMO. I played Age of Conan because it was bragging the lore was going to be deep. Guess what? The LORE was deep to a certain degree, but most of the quests were the aforementioned examples.

I'm guessing that Bioware has a MUCH better grasp of story telling the Eidos. Eidos has been known more recently for releasing dross. Meanwhile Funcom has had limited success with Dreamfall and Longest journey. But telling a tale in MMO's is generally either hard or you have to set it up so that a player can completly bypass much of the story in favor of leveling.

 

In the two MMO's I've played I've seen fairly decent storytelling for those who want to look for it, but usually it doesn't get in the way of the game itself.

[Albion72]

Props to them then. But it probably won't happen in this new Star Wars MMO. I played Age of Conan because it was bragging the lore was going to be deep. Guess what? The LORE was deep to a certain degree, but most of the quests were the aforementioned examples.

I'm guessing that Bioware has a MUCH better grasp of story telling the Eidos. Eidos has been known more recently for releasing dross. Meanwhile Funcom has had limited success with Dreamfall and Longest journey. But telling a tale in MMO's is generally either hard or you have to set it up so that a player can completly bypass much of the story in favor of leveling.

 

In the two MMO's I've played I've seen fairly decent storytelling for those who want to look for it, but usually it doesn't get in the way of the game itself.

 

Yeah. IMO, if I want a good story, I stick to single-player games. I play MMOs for gameplay (and sometimes story). The story I find in MMOs leaves me wanting much much more though. I usually consult wikis to find out what I want to know as far as MMOs.

Edited December 9, 2008 by Albion72

[Cliandin]

Yeah. IMO, if I want a good story, I stick to single-player games. I play MMOs for gameplay (and sometimes story). The story I find in MMOs leaves me wanting much much more though. I usually consult wikis to find out what I want to know as far as MMOs.

Yes, it is true the storyline in MMOs leave most people wanting, but the same can be said of many SPRPGs (anyone really happy with KoTOR2's ending?). Anyway, if Bioware is to be believed then TOR will contain the aspects that a SPRPG player wants from a MMORPG. They claim that TOR has more content then every game they have ever made put together. Also it will allow your story to truly unfold as you go with your choices actually meaning something, unlike in other MMOs. It will, in essence, make a complete SW adventure that will allow you to choose LS or DS and become whatever you want to be. If they pull this off then every player will be dramatically different, rather than the basic cookie cutter style characters you get from other MMOs.

 

I love the SPRPGs and play the MMOs too. Now I play MMOs because the SPRPG get boring after you beat it a few times and with about 30-45 hours of play time to beat KoTOR2 compared to WoW (I dont know the time to get to 80, but 70 was generally considered 240 hours as fairly fast) does not allow very much play time. As pointed out MMOs make money through subscriptions, so there is a vested interest in making them as big as possible and continuing to expand them (thus WoW has BC and LK). SPRPG make money one time and there only needs be enough content to sell the game to someone (30+ hours).

 

Now I agree there are different markets for SPRPG and MMOs, but they do seriously overlap. Personally I let me subscriptions expire on the MMOs when I get a new SPRPG, (no idea how average that is, but I bet a good percentage of player do the same, but even if it is 10% then for WoW that is 1.1 million subscriptions).

 

Personally I think that if there was to be a KoTOR3 is would have to release before TOR or after TOR is all but dead. But, if TOR is as good as they hope I think WoW will be gone first and they are going on their 5th year with 11 million current subscribers, so don't hold your breath.

[Albion72]

Yeah. IMO, if I want a good story, I stick to single-player games. I play MMOs for gameplay (and sometimes story). The story I find in MMOs leaves me wanting much much more though. I usually consult wikis to find out what I want to know as far as MMOs.

Yes, it is true the storyline in MMOs leave most people wanting, but the same can be said of many SPRPGs (anyone really happy with KoTOR2's ending?). Anyway, if Bioware is to be believed then TOR will contain the aspects that a SPRPG player wants from a MMORPG. They claim that TOR has more content then every game they have ever made put together. Also it will allow your story to truly unfold as you go with your choices actually meaning something, unlike in other MMOs. It will, in essence, make a complete SW adventure that will allow you to choose LS or DS and become whatever you want to be. If they pull this off then every player will be dramatically different, rather than the basic cookie cutter style characters you get from other MMOs.

 

I love the SPRPGs and play the MMOs too. Now I play MMOs because the SPRPG get boring after you beat it a few times and with about 30-45 hours of play time to beat KoTOR2 compared to WoW (I dont know the time to get to 80, but 70 was generally considered 240 hours as fairly fast) does not allow very much play time. As pointed out MMOs make money through subscriptions, so there is a vested interest in making them as big as possible and continuing to expand them (thus WoW has BC and LK). SPRPG make money one time and there only needs be enough content to sell the game to someone (30+ hours).

 

Now I agree there are different markets for SPRPG and MMOs, but they do seriously overlap. Personally I let me subscriptions expire on the MMOs when I get a new SPRPG, (no idea how average that is, but I bet a good percentage of player do the same, but even if it is 10% then for WoW that is 1.1 million subscriptions).

 

Personally I think that if there was to be a KoTOR3 is would have to release before TOR or after TOR is all but dead. But, if TOR is as good as they hope I think WoW will be gone first and they are going on their 5th year with 11 million current subscribers, so don't hold your breath.

 

Yes however I have some points to make:

 

1. They say that TOR will have more content then all their games: IMO, this is a lame attempt at saying, "Eventually." If they follow MMO mechanics, and implement what an MMO HAS TO HAVE, then upon release of this game, they won't have more content then all their games, over the years though, of course, because they can add things over time.

 

2. Leveling from 70 to 80 taking 240 hours IMO is just stupid. It does not make me feel like I am achieving anything, it makes me feel like I'm grinding longer than other people. This just shows that most MMOs make it take a long long time to level up rather than be innovative and genius in thinking of other things to actually make the game fun. Its like they hang a piece of meat (level 80) in front of a hunger dog (level 70's). The hungry dog really wants that piece of meat, but he has to get to it, and in WoW's case, it takes a LONG TIME.

 

And the quest are really lame. You get some dialogue, but then the goals for the quests don't make you feel like you achieve anything, because as you are completing the quest, you will see the mob respawn or something. It was like, "Whats the point?" Should just call them, "Tasks" that have you kill things for more experience. The dialogue is like trying to beat body odor with cologne IMO.

 

Of course this is my own opinion on most MMOs. You are of course free to have your own I am not trying to, "convert" you or anything. There are other people like me and other people like you.

 

On your money points: Yes, MMOs are making cash through subscriptions, but this is how I see it:

 

MMO's are money to companies as to taxing things you buy is to the United States Government.

Single-players are money to companies as a person who has a job finding a 100 dollar bill on the ground.

 

MMO's regulate a companies income IMO, while a Single-Player is something you release, have people buy, and then generate a fast income off of it.

 

3. Personally I think that a K3 would be possible before, during, or after TOR. It is very possible that hype for such a game as K3 could be MASSED like A LOT and interest a lot of people who have played the MMO, not to mention us here would buy it regardless of what it looked like.

[Calax]

Yeah. IMO, if I want a good story, I stick to single-player games. I play MMOs for gameplay (and sometimes story). The story I find in MMOs leaves me wanting much much more though. I usually consult wikis to find out what I want to know as far as MMOs.

Yes, it is true the storyline in MMOs leave most people wanting, but the same can be said of many SPRPGs (anyone really happy with KoTOR2's ending?). Anyway, if Bioware is to be believed then TOR will contain the aspects that a SPRPG player wants from a MMORPG. They claim that TOR has more content then every game they have ever made put together. Also it will allow your story to truly unfold as you go with your choices actually meaning something, unlike in other MMOs. It will, in essence, make a complete SW adventure that will allow you to choose LS or DS and become whatever you want to be. If they pull this off then every player will be dramatically different, rather than the basic cookie cutter style characters you get from other MMOs.

 

I love the SPRPGs and play the MMOs too. Now I play MMOs because the SPRPG get boring after you beat it a few times and with about 30-45 hours of play time to beat KoTOR2 compared to WoW (I dont know the time to get to 80, but 70 was generally considered 240 hours as fairly fast) does not allow very much play time. As pointed out MMOs make money through subscriptions, so there is a vested interest in making them as big as possible and continuing to expand them (thus WoW has BC and LK). SPRPG make money one time and there only needs be enough content to sell the game to someone (30+ hours).

 

Now I agree there are different markets for SPRPG and MMOs, but they do seriously overlap. Personally I let me subscriptions expire on the MMOs when I get a new SPRPG, (no idea how average that is, but I bet a good percentage of player do the same, but even if it is 10% then for WoW that is 1.1 million subscriptions).

 

Personally I think that if there was to be a KoTOR3 is would have to release before TOR or after TOR is all but dead. But, if TOR is as good as they hope I think WoW will be gone first and they are going on their 5th year with 11 million current subscribers, so don't hold your breath.

 

Yes however I have some points to make:

 

1. They say that TOR will have more content then all their games: IMO, this is a lame attempt at saying, "Eventually." If they follow MMO mechanics, and implement what an MMO HAS TO HAVE, then upon release of this game, they won't have more content then all their games, over the years though, of course, because they can add things over time.

 

2. Leveling from 70 to 80 taking 240 hours IMO is just stupid. It does not make me feel like I am achieving anything, it makes me feel like I'm grinding longer than other people. This just shows that most MMOs make it take a long long time to level up rather than be innovative and genius in thinking of other things to actually make the game fun. Its like they hang a piece of meat (level 80) in front of a hunger dog (level 70's). The hungry dog really wants that piece of meat, but he has to get to it, and in WoW's case, it takes a LONG TIME.

Cin was saying that it took 240 hours to get from 0 to 70, that's one heck of a ride, From 70-80 is significantly shorter

And the quest are really lame. You get some dialogue, but then the goals for the quests don't make you feel like you achieve anything, because as you are completing the quest, you will see the mob respawn or something. It was like, "Whats the point?" Should just call them, "Tasks" that have you kill things for more experience. The dialogue is like trying to beat body odor with cologne IMO.

Blizzards phasing system is a remedy to this.

Of course this is my own opinion on most MMOs. You are of course free to have your own I am not trying to, "convert" you or anything. There are other people like me and other people like you.

 

On your money points: Yes, MMOs are making cash through subscriptions, but this is how I see it:

 

MMO's are money to companies as to taxing things you buy is to the United States Government.

Single-players are money to companies as a person who has a job finding a 100 dollar bill on the ground.

 

MMO's regulate a companies income IMO, while a Single-Player is something you release, have people buy, and then generate a fast income off of it.

 

3. Personally I think that a K3 would be possible before, during, or after TOR. It is very possible that hype for such a game as K3 could be MASSED like A LOT and interest a lot of people who have played the MMO, not to mention us here would buy it regardless of what it looked like.

You'll see Kotor three after wargamers see Warcraft 4.

[Cliandin]

Yes however I have some points to make:

 

1. They say that TOR will have more content then all their games: IMO, this is a lame attempt at saying, "Eventually." If they follow MMO mechanics, and implement what an MMO HAS TO HAVE, then upon release of this game, they won't have more content then all their games, over the years though, of course, because they can add things over time.

I seriously doubt that LA and Bioware are going to produce a game that falls dramatically short of promises. The MMO market is big, but they are picky, which is why so many MMOs fail. If you go out on a limb and say that the game will have all these things and then dont deliver people will not play it. It is better for them to play down, not play up how much and how big the game will be, I would think that games like Connan testify to this.

2. Leveling from 70 to 80 taking 240 hours IMO is just stupid. It does not make me feel like I am achieving anything, it makes me feel like I'm grinding longer than other people. This just shows that most MMOs make it take a long long time to level up rather than be innovative and genius in thinking of other things to actually make the game fun. Its like they hang a piece of meat (level 80) in front of a hunger dog (level 70's). The hungry dog really wants that piece of meat, but he has to get to it, and in WoW's case, it takes a LONG TIME.

Cin was saying that it took 240 hours to get from 0 to 70, that's one heck of a ride, From 70-80 is significantly shorter

And my real point is for people who want to play a game that has some real play time single player games typically are lacking. Even super fast players in WoW will take 120+ hours to get to 70, and most people think getting to the top level less than 1/2 of what the game has to offer.

3. Personally I think that a K3 would be possible before, during, or after TOR. It is very possible that hype for such a game as K3 could be MASSED like A LOT and interest a lot of people who have played the MMO, not to mention us here would buy it regardless of what it looked like.

You'll see Kotor three after wargamers see Warcraft 4.

I think you are much more likely to see another KoTOR game that is based on a different time frame. for instance, maybe 1500 years after KoTOR2 which will give freedom to do whatever they like and not interfere with TOR and it would still be the old republic so they could still call it KoTOR3. And you can complain all you want about the idea, but most KoTOR players would still buy and play it.

And Warcraft 4 will never happen, but that discussion is for a different thread.

[Calax]

I think you are much more likely to see another KoTOR game that is based on a different time frame. for instance, maybe 1500 years after KoTOR2 which will give freedom to do whatever they like and not interfere with TOR and it would still be the old republic so they could still call it KoTOR3. And you can complain all you want about the idea, but most KoTOR players would still buy and play it.

And Warcraft 4 will never happen, but that discussion is for a different thread.

The biggest problem with this is that if Kotor3 references TOR in any way shape or form, people will get angry because their actions on the world have not changed it. And if you were to put Knights of the Old Republic together fresh you could do what you want to in terms of timeline, BUT when you make a sequel you have to make sure there is a connection to the previous games otherwise you have a very high chance that it will backfire. See: Command And Conquer: Generals.