Martial Arts Skill

[Joseph Bulock]

Knee to the face or choke holds aren't something I'd consider great martial arts skills in videogames. Most federal government agencies use krav maga, like the secret service. I know in the CIA, they teach you to use anything that could be turned into a weapon. Think of Bourne when he rolled up the magazine.

 

Anyway, I think some of your guy's ideas like environmental takedowns are awesome.

 

You don't think of spies choking people? Really? What spies have you been watching?

 

Krav Maga also does have plenty of knees and elbows, just for the record.

 

Most special forces and agency guys are not shown any one style. The CIA gets very, very little martial training. I was hanging out with a freshly recruited CIA person (completely by chance at a wedding) and the people that have combat training usually bring it in from their previous experience. I've trained with people that were going off to train marines after they worked with us, and they explained that the marines have very simple training, even more slimmed down than Krav Maga or any "full" martial arts style, and they have experts come by to help them improve aspects of their skills.

[Jason Bourne]

Knee to the face or choke holds aren't something I'd consider great martial arts skills in videogames. Most federal government agencies use krav maga, like the secret service. I know in the CIA, they teach you to use anything that could be turned into a weapon. Think of Bourne when he rolled up the magazine.

 

Anyway, I think some of your guy's ideas like environmental takedowns are awesome.

 

You don't think of spies choking people? Really? What spies have you been watching?

 

Krav Maga also does have plenty of knees and elbows, just for the record.

 

Most special forces and agency guys are not shown any one style. The CIA gets very, very little martial training. I was hanging out with a freshly recruited CIA person (completely by chance at a wedding) and the people that have combat training usually bring it in from their previous experience. I've trained with people that were going off to train marines after they worked with us, and they explained that the marines have very simple training, even more slimmed down than Krav Maga or any "full" martial arts style, and they have experts come by to help them improve aspects of their skills.

 

Stealthly missions? Sure. You don't want to chain up combos if you're sneaking up behind someone. Look at Sam Fisher. Quick choke holds and punches to the face, but if say an alert goes off and the guards are coming, they will be prepared to fight you. You can queue up whatever CQC moves available, and a precanned animation of dodges and punches insues.

 

Most Special Force guys use a technique called L.I.N.E..

 

As for the CIA guy you talked to, was he in clandestine operations? Because I've seen documentaries where former CIA spies are trained with every single object possible to use as weapon, whether it be a pen or hand towel.

[Joseph Bulock]

Most Special Force guys use a technique called L.I.N.E..

 

As for the CIA guy you talked to, was he in clandestine operations? Because I've seen documentaries where former CIA spies are trained with every single object possible to use as weapon, whether it be a pen or hand towel.

 

Points me towards those documentaries. They sound awesome.

[Jason Bourne]

I've seen the doc. on the History Channel years ago, but if you look up Barry Eisler, he'll tell you about the training he received, and as funny as this may sound, during the uncut version of Bourne Identity shown on TV (channel USA), a former clandestine officer mentioned the use of picking up any object you see around you and using it as a weapon.

[Joseph Bulock]

I've seen the doc. on the History Channel years ago, but if you look up Barry Eisler, he'll tell you about the training he received, and as funny as this may sound, during the uncut version of Bourne Identity shown on TV (channel USA), a former clandestine officer mentioned the use of picking up any object you see around you and using it as a weapon.

 

I'll look into these more, but my first response is beware of people who can brag up on some sort of secret training they received that just happens to make their book or movie (or maybe even video game) that much more interesting or purchasable.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

I can imagine pens, but towels?

 

Sometimes your own body is way better than objects around you.

[Pop]

Dunno. Haven't you seen the latest Bourne film? You can choke a guy with a towel, if you're good.

[Cl_Flushentityhero]

I'll look into these more, but my first response is beware of people who can brag up on some sort of secret training they received that just happens to make their book or movie (or maybe even video game) that much more interesting or purchasable.

 

Come on, and I gave you the perfect venue in which to boast about the super-secret commando training you all received during your early days with "the company" (and by The Company, I mean Obsidian).

 

It's certainly physically possible to use any number of common non-weapon objects either offensively or defensively (I read an account of somebody who admitted to getting his ass kicked with a hairbrush), but I don't know if there are any good systems out there that will formally train people in it (other than Krav with their keychain fetish). Sturdy pens are popular with the self-defense crowd, though I think this is as much based on theory as practice.

 

Re: government MA training, I know that at least the US Army has a pretty comprehensive combatives program. The progression is roughly BJJ -> MT -> MMA -> FMA -> RBSD, each component tweaked to suit the military mindset better (and concessions to reality). I don't know what the other branches that might feed into the CIA teach. Law Enforcement tends to be pretty aggressive about adopting newfangled MA (in theory), though that usually amounts to outsourcing to Martial Art X as interpreted by a current/former LEO (Like that Tony Blauer crossfit stuff; though Blauer is ironically neither LEO nor military).

 

So, I guess there's no real wrong answer if the CIA doesn't have a strong program or a particular parent MA they subscribe to; whatever they teach would probably be overridden by more extensive previous training. And yes, I realize that's basically the conclusion you (Obs) arrived at long ago, and that I was in effect being a tard. Still an interesting topic, no?

[Xard]

As for the CIA guy you talked to, was he in clandestine operations? Because I've seen documentaries where former CIA spies are trained with every single object possible to use as weapon, whether it be a pen or hand towel.

 

Wonder how they suck so much then lol

Edited August 19, 2008 by Xard

[Jason Bourne]

I can imagine pens, but towels?

 

Sometimes your own body is way better than objects around you.

 

ANYTHING. He even mentioned the glasses you're wearing. He even jokes about how you can kill a man with the tie you're wearing around your neck. A stick, if thick enough to penetrate through the throat. A rock. I can't remember in details about this, but he said if you strike the blow at a man's upper cranial area, then that'll knock em out for good.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Oh yeah, and you can kill with a snowball. Stuff it down the throat (easier when unconscious) and the victim will run out of air, then the snowball will melt, showing no trace of what happened.

[Cl_Flushentityhero]

 

The Marine system looks similar to the Army program.

[Joseph Bulock]

 

The Marine system looks similar to the Army program.

 

I seriously hope that's inaccurate. Teaching ground fighting to people who will very likely have handguns or knives and will be fighting people armed the same way is a horrible idea.

[Killian Kalthorne]

I think that AP should have the Gun Kata Martial Art skill.

[mkreku]

I think Obsidian should hire the best of the best for their CQC advice:

 

http://www.fedordvd.com/?gclid=CODA0Y6cm5UCFQuJ1Qode0LkgQ

 

I'm not even kidding. This guy dispatched the former UFC heavyweight champion Tim Sylvia in 36 seconds, despite being 7 inches shorter and 40 pounds lighter. Check out the four minute teaser under the link above.

[Cl_Flushentityhero]

 

The Marine system looks similar to the Army program.

 

I seriously hope that's inaccurate. Teaching ground fighting to people who will very likely have handguns or knives and will be fighting people armed the same way is a horrible idea.

 

You're totally right, if they were teaching ground fighting as something to use in combat. IME with the Army program, it's mostly a form of physical training/confidence building that paves the way for the good stuff. Also, I'd wager that the average grunt is more likely to have to subdue a rowdy comrade/civilian (which BJJ is good for) than to encounter a close-quarters fight to the death.

 

My understanding is that most soldiers do not progress to the point in the system where they start learning the real deal with guns and knives and Improvised Bludgeoning Devices (the feared IBD). Statistically, they don't really need to. That said, I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the entire program just because it includes a ground component.

 

The beginning of this video gives a brief glimpse into the more realistic training (if you blink, you'll miss it) and also into the Army's intent behind teaching what they do. Predictably, death metal is involved.

 

 

I'm not saying the Army way is the best way, but I wouldn't call the program horrible either. They do have some good stuff, even if the program is back-loaded in combat effectiveness.

[Cl_Flushentityhero]

Also:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao0r_CWHOik...feature=related

 

Human Weapon does MCMA.

[Zoma]

I think that AP should have the Gun Kata Martial Art skill.

 

We need Christian Bale too.

[Jason Bourne]

I think Obsidian should hire the best of the best for their CQC advice:

 

http://www.fedordvd.com/?gclid=CODA0Y6cm5UCFQuJ1Qode0LkgQ

 

I'm not even kidding. This guy dispatched the former UFC heavyweight champion Tim Sylvia in 36 seconds, despite being 7 inches shorter and 40 pounds lighter. Check out the four minute teaser under the link above.

 

 

Good stuff. MMA is the best martial arts to use if you're ever in a real fight. I know this guy who's on the SWAT team that practices BJJ. I'm hoping to go to the police academy in January, and maybe later on I'll practice soem MMA. There's no way I'd want to use Kali in a real fight. I'd get my ass kicked, lol.

[mkreku]

 

I believe that's almost the entire fight. In one gif! :D

[Joseph Bulock]

I think Obsidian should hire the best of the best for their CQC advice:

 

http://www.fedordvd.com/?gclid=CODA0Y6cm5UCFQuJ1Qode0LkgQ

 

I'm not even kidding. This guy dispatched the former UFC heavyweight champion Tim Sylvia in 36 seconds, despite being 7 inches shorter and 40 pounds lighter. Check out the four minute teaser under the link above.

 

 

Good stuff. MMA is the best martial arts to use if you're ever in a real fight. I know this guy who's on the SWAT team that practices BJJ. I'm hoping to go to the police academy in January, and maybe later on I'll practice soem MMA. There's no way I'd want to use Kali in a real fight. I'd get my ass kicked, lol.

 

Actually, MMA style fighting is really only good in a one of one fight, or when you have someone to watch your back. Fighting multiple people, ground fighting is very dangerous, and likely to get you stomped on by your opponents friends when the jump in.

 

Enjoy the police academy.

[J.E. Sawyer]

Since there are some new shots out of MT engaged in hand-to-hand, I asked if I could REVEAL the mysteries of our primary CQC art. It's American Kenpo, which was selected for a few reasons. Its strikes read very well, are quite varied, and lend themselves well to performing chains. We also do have grappling moves for MT, but they are quickly resolved and there is no actual ground fighting involved.

 

Preemptively, I would like to state that I know a lot of people would like to see Krav Maga/BJJ/Muay Thai/Savate/Hapkido/Wing Chun/Gunsen fighting, but this was the way we chose to go. Arts like Krav Maga work very well for Jason Bourne, but that's his thing, and specific to the tone of "his kind" of action. The action in Alpha Protocol is a little flashier/stylish, and American Kenpo works well for how we want CQC to fit into our combat (more seamless and less set-piecey, like Bourne Conspiracy).

 

*barricades dojo against hordes of martial arts "enthusiasts"*

[samm]

Krav Maga is no art. Bourne (also?) does Jiu Jitsu in the movies. And you forgot to add Taekwondo to your list, on which it should be because it lends itself well to movies and games because of spectacular kicks.

Edited August 20, 2008 by samm

[Patrick K Mills]

Krav Maga is no art.

 

It's a space station?

[Cl_Flushentityhero]

It's American Kenpo, which was selected for a few reasons.

 

I know some scary people who practice Kenpo. The trapping component also lends itself well to disarms, though I haven't seen them formally practiced. I'm not going to badmouth the decision.

 

I agree that Bourne Conspiracy's actual fighting gameplay was rather contrived. I half-expect to hear a japanese-accented voice yell "Ready? Fight!" every time I get close to an enemy. I guess their thought was to make the hand-to-hand fighting actual gameplay, but IMO it would've been better to just have insta-takedowns without relying on the adrenaline meter. The fighting didn't even resemble the Bourne films/books so much as a Muay Thai match.