Feature request: Toggle for sticky targetting and stat based combat

[spacekungfuman]

Just a simple request here. No condescending polls or debate over which type of combat is the best. I just want to know if at this point in the game it would be possible to make an OPTION to enable a sticky targeting system, and have the chance to hit be based on the characters stats. I know that weapons stats are in the game, and I assume the AI must use some form of lock on targetting, so I would think the building blocks are there. Maybe it could even be released for the PC as an unsupported addon or something. But if it is possible with the engine and the stat system to make this happen, it would be greatly appreciated. Once a developer responds, I will not post other than in gratitude if this turns out to be possible. We already had enough vitriol in the last thread. Thank you.

Edited July 31, 2008 by spacekungfuman

[Xard]

Well, stats determine the amount of damage, what kind of special abilities you get etc.

 

Only aiming is skill based

[spacekungfuman]

Well, stats determine the amount of damage, what kind of special abilities you get etc.

 

Only aiming is skill based

 

I'm aware of this, and its exactly what I'm asking to disable. I'm not saying change it for everyone, or even make sure it works throughout the whole game perfectly. I'm just asking for an unsupported option that would take as little work as possible, to just make the game more of an RPG for me. I will buy the game either way, but I would be VERY happy if this option was made available. I'd also bet the option would increase sales, since then the game would have something for everybody.

[Xard]

Well, console versions without doubt feature some sort of an assistance for aiming. It might be subtle (like in Halo if I my memory works) or then it might be just PRESS-THIS-BUTTON-AND-YOU-LOCK-ON-ENEMY kinda thing. I'd guess it is the first option

 

SO PC might too, but really, zapping guys with mouse aiming is easy. *shrug*

Edited July 31, 2008 by Xard

[Cycloneman]

If you're getting it on PC, just wait for somebody to mod it, or mod it yourself. BAM, problem solved.

[spacekungfuman]

Well, console versions without doubt feature some sort of an assistance for aiming. It might be subtle (like in Halo if I my memory works) or then it might be just PRESS-THIS-BUTTON-AND-YOU-LOCK-ON-ENEMY kinda thing. I'd guess it is the first option

 

SO PC might too, but really, zapping guys with mouse aiming is easy. *shrug*

 

I'm not asking for the sticky targeting or target lock because aiming is hard. I'm asking because I'm looking for an alternate gameplay style that is more akin to BG than Doom, where you select a target, and then the character hits or misses based on their stats, instead of hitting/missing being based on me aiming. Its a different style of play and a different style of game, but if it would not be that hard to enable it in AP, then everyone wins.

[Xard]

Well, that is taking the "Action" ouf of Action RPG isn't it?

 

This game has been ment to be more twitch based since day one

[themadhatter114]

It seems that to do that they'd also have to add 'to hit' modifiers for each stat and for each weapon and for each of the weapon mods. They'd also have to balance it so that it wasn't awkward looking for your guy to be aiming right at someone and miss. I think it's good enough to simply assume that, being a trained agent, Thorton can hit what he's aiming at. It simply seems like a lot of work for little gain.

[spacekungfuman]

It seems that to do that they'd also have to add 'to hit' modifiers for each stat and for each weapon and for each of the weapon mods. They'd also have to balance it so that it wasn't awkward looking for your guy to be aiming right at someone and miss. I think it's good enough to simply assume that, being a trained agent, Thorton can hit what he's aiming at. It simply seems like a lot of work for little gain.

 

I really don't understand why so many people care about the animation of aiming/attacking coinciding with if you actually hit. Games had an attack animation and a to hit roll that did not go together since animation first began.

 

As far as it being little gain, I'd say giving people the option to play the game as an rpg instead of an action rpg is a pretty huge gain. It would basically set a new standard in the industry, and show that it is possible to make a game that appeals to old genre fans and newer fans/fans of different genres.

[Tigranes]

I'm a huge tactical turn-based RPG fan and I wouldn't want to play AP like that, though. Some sort of bastardised option where everything else int he game is geared towards action RPG play but suddenly aiming is sticky and theres one algorithm rolling hit dice. That's like saying please give us a toggle to make us have to aim in Baldur's Gate or NWN. It wouldn't make any sense, and it wouldn't be fun, either. I can see AP becoming quite boring and jarring if you walked around like that.

[themadhatter114]

I don't think that it would ultimately net any gain in sales. I also don't think missing the thing that your cursor is aiming at is in any way fun. In order to work they'd probably have to implement something like VATS in Fallout 3 which is going to be lame, anyway.

[spacekungfuman]

I'm a huge tactical turn-based RPG fan and I wouldn't want to play AP like that, though. Some sort of bastardised option where everything else int he game is geared towards action RPG play but suddenly aiming is sticky and theres one algorithm rolling hit dice. That's like saying please give us a toggle to make us have to aim in Baldur's Gate or NWN. It wouldn't make any sense, and it wouldn't be fun, either. I can see AP becoming quite boring and jarring if you walked around like that.

 

This is essentially the KOTOR/JE combat system that I'm asking for. While that is not a great system at all, at least its stat based, and there is precedent ofr very successful games using this sort of "move in real time, hit with stats" system.

[Tigranes]

Yes, but KOTOR and JE were built for that, in terms of underlying stats, animations, perspective, game balance, everything. And even then KOTOR was quite simply boring, and the only way JE could try and alleviate that was by... well, integrating 'action rpg' elements.

 

Still. Its just another story altogether when you're asking a completely different type of gameplay to work like that. You *could* put autoaim in Halo, but it wouldn't really have a point, would it?

[Wrath of Dagon]

Certainly they could add high auto-aim just like Mass Effect, for people who don't want to aim for whatever reason.

[spacekungfuman]

Certainly they could add high auto-aim just like Mass Effect, for people who don't want to aim for whatever reason.

 

Its NOT autoaim that I'm asking for. I'm asking to replace player aiming with character aiming. Stat resolved combat. That's all I'm asking for. The aiming portion is not to avoid having to aim, but to make it so that character skill and not player skill determines hits.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Oh, well, you're dreaming then. That means they have to provide you an upgrade path for that skill, everything has to be tested and balanced using that skill, players will get confused how you're supposed to play the game and complain it plays like crap, etc. I don't even know how you'd resolve battles when there're a lot of enemies. My prediction is it's not happening.

[Pidesco]

This makes about as much sense as asking for stat based combat in Halo. Obsidian will implement NINJA ROBOT CRATE KITTENS before they add full stat based combat in AP.

[themadhatter114]

I don't remember any 'to hit' stats in Jade Empire. From what I recall your stats determined your damage and your chi and focus or whatever the stats were called. Hitting stuff was only about picking the right attack. KotoR combat was indeed boring.

 

From what has been released, weapons do not have 'to hit' ratings, and increasing stats do not affect hit percentage at all. What you are requesting is that they revamp their entire weapon system to include a feature that sounds like it would be poorly implemented and used by very few people. Improving weapon skills unlocks special abilities, increases critical hit percentages, and I think improves stability. I prefer that they not spend a lot of time adding in another mechanic with the combat system.

 

Do you also think that there should be a 'to hit' roll when you sneak up behind someone and grab him or slash his throat?

[SteveThaiBinh]

For me, combat in KotOR was much more fun than in Mass Effect - you could actually sit back and watch what was going on, rather than frantically searching around for things to aim at and missing everything else that was going on (like background detail, or what your companions were doing). I prefer combat based on the character's stats. However, after two and a half games of combat based on character stats, it looks like Obsidian wants to try its hand at something different. I think that's understandable. So long as there's something in there that makes it possible for me to play the game without reflexes (Mass Effect-style auto-aim, or a very generous difficulty slider maybe), I guess it's okay, though it's not really what I'd choose myself.

 

Why not an option to have the AI take control of Thorton? Presumably there's AI controlling the NPCs, but would it be capable of controlling the PC as well? It would succeed or fail according to how you'd developed his skills and equipment, plus if you were combat inclined you could watch how the AI got through an area, then go back and try it yourself.

[Pop]

What, like Dwarf Fortress? I don't think it's a good idea to hand over the PC entirely to AI.

[Patrick K Mills]

No

[themadhatter114]

Nevermind.

Edited August 1, 2008 by themadhatter114

[Wrath of Dagon]

D&D type combat is OK at first because the challenge is figuring out how everything works. Once you figure that out, it becomes boring because you're just repeating the same things over and over. They can make the rules more convoluted and that presents a challenge for a while, but eventually you figure it out again. It seems to me the solutions are either to introduce more tactical considerations into rules based combat and force you to keep changing your tactics (hard to do) or go to more actiony combat.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

How about every time you shoot you have a minigame where you gide the bullet? Or having it play like an RTS!

 

Totally reasonable changes to the game. It's easy too.

[Wrath of Dagon]

How about every time you shoot you have a minigame where you gide the bullet?

That was the guided missile in DX:IW. It was awesome!

Or having it play like an RTS!

That's kind of what I meant by introducing more tactics, at least that's one way of attempting that. Don't know how well it would work with a single character or a small party though.