PLEASE don't do the same mistake as bioware

[gargar]

and use draconic drm like the installation crap in mass effect. PLEASE! or else i'll need to pirate your next game.

 

you see, i bought Mass Effect from ea download store in the UK. OH what a mistake! i used my three activation. one on my friend which i wanted to play with him. one on my Vista pc and one on my brother's XP machine. i know i shouldn't play them on the same time. this is reasonable. but today i found out i can only activate my game 3 times. 3 TIMES!!! what happen if i want to get back to the game in a year or two or four?

 

so i swear by god name i will never buy any game with this kind of drm. if i was smart (and apparently i am not) i would have got it via Mininova in the first place and get a superior pirated copy for free. but i won't do the same mistake again. i will only buy Dragon Age if it'll have a reasonable drm.

 

please, Obsidian, i bough both Kotor2 and nwn2. please use some sane drm method with Alpha Protocol. i hate to pirate game.

[Matthew Rorie]

and use draconic drm like the installation crap in mass effect. PLEASE! or else i'll need to pirate your next game.

 

you see, i bought Mass Effect from ea download store in the UK. OH what a mistake! i used my three activation. one on my friend which i wanted to play with him. one on my Vista pc and one on my brother's XP machine. i know i shouldn't play them on the same time. this is reasonable. but today i found out i can only activate my game 3 times. 3 TIMES!!! what happen if i want to get back to the game in a year or two or four?

 

so i swear by god name i will never buy any game with this kind of drm. if i was smart (and apparently i am not) i would have got it via Mininova in the first place and get a superior pirated copy for free. but i won't do the same mistake again. i will only buy Dragon Age if it'll have a reasonable drm.

 

please, Obsidian, i bough both Kotor2 and nwn2. please use some sane drm method with Alpha Protocol. i hate to pirate game.

 

Generally DRM is more of a publisher concern than a developer concern, so we're not necessarily the ones to ask about it. But I wouldn't get all indignant about it in the same post in which you admit that one copy of the game made it into the hands of three people... Why did you give an activation to a friend "which you wanted to play it with him" when Mass Effect has no multiplayer?

 

And I would add that no one is forcing you to pirate a game. The "DRM forces me to be a pirate!" logic is loopy at best.

[gargar]

Generally DRM is more of a publisher concern than a developer concern, so we're not necessarily the ones to ask about it. But I wouldn't get all indignant about it in the same post in which you admit that one copy of the game made it into the hands of three people... Why did you give an activation to a friend "which you wanted to play it with him" when Mass Effect has no multiplayer?

 

And I would add that no one is forcing you to pirate a game. The "DRM forces me to be a pirate!" logic is loopy at best.

 

in most cases i'd agree with you. even if we ignore the fact that drm is basically useless (as all the recent games get cracked within the first week of release) there are drm methods which are ok. basically any drm who wouldn't force me to call to EA and beg for an activation like in Mass Effect case.

 

and yes, three copies made it to three people. one for a friend which i love to play with. you know, it's a lot of fun to play a game with someone even after you played it alone. i have done it with Bioshock and all the half life game (all of them from Steam so drm is not much of a concern) and one for my brother pc. there is nothing wrong in this. we don't play at the same time. it is more then logical and reasonable to limit the number of times you can run a game at the same time.

 

now, what will happen if you want to sell your game. i know i don't. i never do. but sometimes i just give hem away to someone at work. this kind of drm limits you. and what about upgrading your pc? or OS? . or just want to get back into it in the future? does it sound ok to you that you need to contact the Publisher and hope the game you legally bought won't turn into a useless piece of optical data? this is just wrong.

 

and this method only hurt you. not the pirates. they get both a superior copy AND doesn't pay for it.

 

and no, no one is forcing me. i do it on my own free will. i don't want to be limited like this.

[Sharen the Exile]

The "DRM forces me to be a pirate!" logic is loopy at best.

 

Purashe the game again for the full price after three OS reinstalls/hardware upgrades logic is far more loopy. Like someone else said, it's plain ridiculous to charge a full retail price for rental rights, since that's exactly what purashing Mass Effect is. DRM does not forces anyone to be a pirate. But it surely punishes actual customers who bought the game.

[samm]

To support the devs: buy the games regardless of copy protection! Then, to make the game playable without wrecking your DVD drive or it being unable to installed after reinstalling windows: do somthing illegal to your legally bought copy. Not that hard, not as unfair as pirating the game.

Also, to send a clear signal to the industry: Buy more games without copy protection (instead of just not buying those with it, which punishes the mostly innocent devs).

Edited July 27, 2008 by samm

[themadhatter114]

Yeah, wow, I think DRM sucks, but admitting that you hate it because you like to make copies of the game for other people to play is just stupid. I don't even like CD keys because I tend to lose booklets and then pick up games years later. But in that case I don't feel bad for trying to find a cracked cd key, or even for pirating a game that I already own but misplaced the CD for (not sure where my Fallout/Torment discs are, but have been itching to play them, so I don't know if finding them will be as easy as pirating).

 

And it's nice to be able to let a friend borrow your game after you are done with it, which you can't really do with DRM, and it's nice to be able to sell things when you are done with them, which DRM prevents. Supposedly Blu-Ray movies are going to start coming with this stuff.

 

My advice if you don't like DRM: Buy multi-platform games for consoles. Get a 360 with a huge hard drive. I think they're even going to allow people to load the game discs onto the hard drive to be played without the disc. So, all you have to do is buy a new game, load it onto the console, put the game back in the case, play it, delete it, and then you'll still have a pristine disc if you ever want to play it again. Or, you know, console games actually have things called rentals, unlike PC games. So if you buy a new game, your friend can rent the same game for a month for 10 bucks.

 

And, yeah, if you really don't want Obsidian's next two games to have DRM, talk to Sega. Just don't tell them exactly why you personally don't like DRM.

Edited July 27, 2008 by themadhatter114

[gargar]

consoles are not the point here. they have their limitations. beside, steam effectivly eliminate piracy as it bind the game to the account. the downside is that you can never sell the game (you can sell the account but you will lose all of your games alongside) but there are many plus sides. first, you can install the account anywhere. this is how i played my games with a friend. you can log into the account from multiple computers at the same time but you can't play the same game at the same time which is logical. also, another huge plus is that you get access to all of your games from anywhere and anytime. soon you will be able to backup your saves and configuration into steam itself which is really nice. and you get community and friends and achivments and what's not.

 

this is the only way to combat piracy. both friendly and very useful drm (which is not really a drm) but also many advantages for those who pay over the ones who doesn't. what EA does is exactly the opposite and i hope that whoever from Obsidian that reads this will be smart enough to pass it along to sega and take advantage of steam when the game comes out. after all, sega sell their games in steam with most of them available worldwide.

[themadhatter114]

Well, that's Steam, though, and not everyone wants to use it. Heck, if you simply went into Offline mode, you probably could play the same game at the same time. But companies understand, at least, that for people to share a Steam account, they have to trust each other not to screw with the password or anything like that. So, the fact that you have to actually trust someone else is an added level of security for them. But if you were able to just install Mass Effect on every computer that you wanted so that everyone could play it, then you are going against the very intent of the DRM and complaining about the DRM because it prevents you from doing what it doesn't want you to do is infantile.

[samm]

Yeah, wow, I think DRM sucks, but admitting that you hate it because you like to make copies of the game for other people to play is just stupid.

Who ever did say that?

Securom didn't slowly convert my drive to electronic junk, so I'm lucky. I'd just prefer my hardware not being endagered by a piece of intrusive software, to always and guaranteed be able to reinstall the game after having uninstalled it, or reformatted my Windows partition, or bought a new PC, even if some licence server of the publisher should be down, and play it while not being connected to the internet. If a copy protection fulfills these criteria every piece of useful software should fulfil, I'll happily live with DRM.

Edited July 28, 2008 by samm

[themadhatter114]

Yeah, wow, I think DRM sucks, but admitting that you hate it because you like to make copies of the game for other people to play is just stupid.

Who ever did say that?

 

Did you miss the part about the topic starter complaining because he used up his install limits on his friend's and his brother's computer, presumably so they could play, too? And that the reason he likes Steam is because he and his friend can all use the same account so long as they aren't playing the same game at the same time? Do you really think that those types of attitudes are actually going to dissuade publishers from wanting to use DRM?

[random n00b]

The simple fact that it never takes longer than a week or two after release for a functional fix to appear for any given game should be the only argument necessary for publishers to drop DRM. Instead, they come up with genius setups like online activations, which have zero effect on piracy, but greatly inconvenience paying customers. Does it get any more absurd?

 

I've bought every Obsidz game so far, but then again, I had been a loyal BIO customer until Mass Effect. I don't install malware on my computer or pay full retail price for rental rights.

Edited July 28, 2008 by random n00b

[Volourn]

As long as you don't steal ME then that's your right. Just don't buy *or* play ME PC. Just like it's alright for companies to protect their products from theives (even if they are making a mistake in the way they're going about it).

 

ie. I could protect my house by using a padlock on my front door even though thieves will still likely break; but it's still their fault for being thieves in the first place. Not mine just because I used a foolish method.

[Sand]

I don't mind copy protection schemes as long as they don't hinder my enjoyment of the game, however after my experience with DRM with MEPC I won't be buying another game that uses it.

[Leferd]

Now I haven't been following the securom/MEPC drama, but aside from the three activation limit, what's so bad about it?

[samm]

Some problems with copy protection systems: That it's not PC dependent but configuration dependent. I don't know for ME because I don't own it, but it's possible that if you install a new processor or graphics card, the DRM will not recognize it as the same PC. Other systems like the one used in NWN2, MotB, can wreck your DVD drive. Some hide from the system, antivirus etc. and can do what they want because the OS doesn't see them, effectively acting as rootkit (--> Sony) or driver (--> Starforce). Others require you to stay online while playing or at least be online when starting the game which is a) not an option for some people b) not a wise thing to do anyway, even if it's becoming more and more common with broadband connections. Some of these won't allow you to install or play the game anymore if the publisher goes from the market or decides that it's too expensive to keep registration servers running (has happened and is currently happening for certain DRM protected music). Some don't allow you to have virtual drives nor programs that could be used to run virtual drives installed, as is the case for NWN2, which doesn't allow me to have something installed I'd need for my work (MS SQL ISO, am now working in a virtual machine with a virtual drive ). Etc.

If there's some FUD about what I just said: Sorry, it's late here (4 am)...

 

Did you miss the part about the topic starter complaining because he used up his install limits on his friend's and his brother's computer, presumably so they could play, too?

I thought he wanted to play when there, because he understood that no playing at the same time is possible, which would only make sense if it was he who played... But I think you're right. Edited July 29, 2008 by samm

[Zoma]

Now I haven't been following the securom/MEPC drama, but aside from the three activation limit, what's so bad about it?

 

If I'm not mistaken, the activation limit is also performed when you switch internal hardwares of your PC.

 

eg. Change your video card, sound card and such, it will detect if there are new hardwares in your PC and use up one activation.

 

This is to ensure the game doesn't get transferred around to other computers like in a LAN shop for instance.

[Sand]

Also, EA refuses to tell you how many activations you have used, so you don't know how many activations you have used and plan accordingly. Also DRM places a rootkit into your Registry files that is not removed when you uninstall the game. This rootkit has the potential to cause problems in the OS registry and transmit your information to outside servers.

[samm]

Also makes selling such a game on eBay rather difficult.

[Krookie]

lol you guys need to get consoles

 

no drm on my 360 Mass Effect

[Xard]

lol you guys need to get on PC's.

 

No paying for multiplayer

[Sand]

lol you guys need to get on PC's.

 

No paying for multiplayer

 

Um... Why would I pay to play ME with multiplayer when it has no multiplayer?

[Xard]

overall comment, duh

[Volourn]

"No paying for multiplayer"

 

Lies.

[gargar]

"No paying for multiplayer"

 

Lies.

 

 

i have already stated that consoles are out of the question here. my reasons are in my second or third post.

 

also, yes. changing certain hardware like processor or graphic card will require a new activation for Mass Effect. 3 activations is not enough for anyone. there should be unlimited activations. nothing else is ok.

 

there is absolutly no reason to limit owners of the game like that. my second post gives all the reasons.

[Volourn]

"i have already stated that consoles are out of the question here. my reasons are in my second or third post."

 

Why are you quoting me when your reply has very little if anything than what you quoted. My postw as about the assertion that you don't pay to play MP on PC games...