Rostere Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Judging from the beta, it will be a fun game, albeit completely different from it's predecessor. First one was more massive. This is more "in- depth tactical". I'd like to say it's more like real 40k, but then there are 5000pts matches so maybe that wouldn't be fair to DoW 1. I have only played with SM and Eldar and only about 30 games, but it seems very well balanced. "Well, overkill is my middle name. And my last name. And all of my other names as well!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llyranor Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 Basically, it removes a lot of the base-building research stuff that was in DoW1. You essentially have your primary base, with 3 tiers, and you can build 2-5ish different units per tier. Two types of resources, which are obtained by capturing points on the map. It removes some of the emphasis on base-building and places it more on capturing territory. There's a lot of back and forth. You capture stuff, expand, the enemy gets behind your lines, you chase him again, cat and mouse, etc etc. There's destructible terrain and cover like in CoH, but it seems a lot less useless. The AI is braindead. I haven't seriously played a RTS in probably 3-5 yrs. Nick + me + expert AI destroyed 3 expert AI in our first go. Then did the same with a hard allied AI. And then again with easy. The game's already gold, so longevity of skirmish looks questionable at best. Anyhow, I enjoyed it for what it was, but it wasn't a massive change from other RTS. Not being a RTS fan in the first place, I don't think I'll bite for this one. Co-op campaign is nice and all, but the core mechanics are just kind of ho-hum. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 I like the basic mechanic behind DOW2 more than the predecessor. It's faster, more stressy, more tactical, and that's good. Though I agree the AI can be easily beat at normal, I haven't played with hard yet. And I always got owned when playing with the Tyriads, that's why I prefer to stick with my boyz. I'm probably picking this one up at release, as I think Halo Wars will suck anyway. Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llyranor Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 I will say that the core mechanics and emphasis on capturing points is better than it was in DoW. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moatilliatta Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 When have RTS AIs been tough for anyone who have played a decent amount of RTS games before? They probably just put the amount of extra resources that the AI gets too low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musopticon? Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 ^I can come up with a few examples, but the point stands that Relic games haven't had stellar ais before, so no doubt DoW 2 is any different. Hoping for some ingenious Tyranid scripts at least, though. kirottu said: I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden. It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai. So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llyranor Posted January 26, 2009 Author Share Posted January 26, 2009 Well, that's the thing. I don't regularly RTS games, and certainly am not pretending to actually be good at the genre; haven't touched one seriously in the past couple of years. Despite that, Nick and me whooped 3 expert AI's in a 2v3 today, in our first try. The AI in this game majorly sucks. I at least remember having a good challenge in 2v2 against the hardest AI in DoW1. It's kind of weird. We've tried a bit of PvP. Very mixed results. A few victories, and a few mopping the floor with our faces. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 The AI is weird. The Tyrranid lord just circles through all victory points, always killing mine while I kill his. But once my Mekkaboy starts building turrets there, they avoid it like the plague despite having enough firepower to wipe it out. Then they desperately try to destroy my HQ, which obviously is a stupid idea, so that leaves me the whole time free to capture the remaining targets over the whole map. So it's not seldom that I manage do defeat my foe despite still having 500 points on my account. Funny enough, when I play the Tyrriads against Space Marines, I get easily pwned if I'm too sloppy. Does anyone know how long the singleplayer campaign will be? Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 3 vs 3 is a lot fun, especially if you're on the winning side. Except for the crappy lag I had today, I'm really enjoying the mp aspect of DoW2 very much. Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moatilliatta Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 (edited) ^I can come up with a few examples, but the point stands that Relic games haven't had stellar ais before, so no doubt DoW 2 is any different. Hoping for some ingenious Tyranid scripts at least, though. Which examples? I'm serious when I'm saying that I can't remember anytime that computers were a match unless I was vastly outnumbered and completely alone. @Llyr You really don't need to be an RTS veteran to beat an AI in most RTS games. Arena shooters has been like that for a while as well. Edit: Oh and I agree with Morgoth in that 3vs3 is incredible amounts of fun. I'm not even sure if I'm going to be spending much time in 1 vs. 1. Edited January 27, 2009 by Moatilliatta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llyranor Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 It's not so much about the AI not being challenging on the long run. It's about it being completely braindead and getting its Hades whooped despite being at the highest difficulty and having an extra player advantage on the first try by non-RTS fans. Yeah, you could say the same about arena shooters, but that's where asymmetrical game modes come in, such as Horde mode in GoW2 where the AI simply swarms you with overwhelming numbers. And if you outlive that, they just pump up accuracy/damage/hp and swarm you again. It's a simple but effective way of providing challenge. Having an AI being TOO hard at high difficulties (as long as easier difficulties are available to accommodate) is a much better alternative than even the best AI being a complete cakewalk. Geez, cheat if you have to. I think I'm done with DoW2. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musopticon? Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 ^I can come up with a few examples, but the point stands that Relic games haven't had stellar ais before, so no doubt DoW 2 is any different. Hoping for some ingenious Tyranid scripts at least, though. Which examples? I'm serious when I'm saying that I can't remember anytime that computers were a match unless I was vastly outnumbered and completely alone. At least Ground Control 2, Kane's Wrath and Homeworld games regularly whoop me. I'd hesitate to add older strategy games, since I'm not sure how much of the difficulty there is based on just pure scripting, e. g darned Starcraft AI. kirottu said: I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden. It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai. So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick_i_am Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 The Warcraft3 skirmish AI could be brutal, but only, basically, because it cheats, both in terms of gold and build speed. But i'm fine with that in terms of challange, in DoW2 the AI both didn't seem to cheat OR have any kind of actual coordinated battleplan. It's units just sort of seemed to wonder around like morons half the time. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moatilliatta Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 It's not so much about the AI not being challenging on the long run. It's about it being completely braindead and getting its Hades whooped despite being at the highest difficulty and having an extra player advantage on the first try by non-RTS fans. Yeah, you could say the same about arena shooters, but that's where asymmetrical game modes come in, such as Horde mode in GoW2 where the AI simply swarms you with overwhelming numbers. And if you outlive that, they just pump up accuracy/damage/hp and swarm you again. It's a simple but effective way of providing challenge. Having an AI being TOO hard at high difficulties (as long as easier difficulties are available to accommodate) is a much better alternative than even the best AI being a complete cakewalk. Geez, cheat if you have to. I think I'm done with DoW2. I'm glad that you mentioned the horde mode as it reminded me to check up on CoH: Tales of Valor, unfortunately the invasion game mode that I remembered hearing about wasn't what I had expected: ...such as 'Invasion', where the player will command a Tiger I against waves of enemies of increasing difficulty... I personally hope that some RTS makers will try and make an easily scaleable horde mode where you have to defend for a certain amount of time with friends, since AI wouldn't matter in such a situation. Skirmish/compstomps are still stuck in their position of being replacements for actual human beings which they are terrible at. @Musopticon? I haven't tried KW yet and put down the other two down to me being too young to beat the AI. How was the C&C3 vanilla AI? I still need to play that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musopticon? Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 You should definitely try Ground Control 2 again, it's a great strategy game and the campaign isn't bad either. Nice scifi epic. On vanilla C&C 3, well, the Ai partakes in the greatest problem of the whole game - unit spam and total dependence on economic domination. It goes straight for the throat until it holds all tiberium in the map and then it steamrolls you. I mentioned KW not because the skirmish AI was better or anything, but because the campaign Ai is finally a tough nut to crack and not just a bunch of mission-dependent scripts, which sometimes deem to send the odd ten units to be chewed down by your walls of turrets and airfields of craft. I honestly can't beat KW sp campaign, which is pretty cool, considering how little rts nowadays challenge me. Just remembered another example - Battle for Middle-Earth 2:RotWk. kirottu said: I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden. It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai. So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llyranor Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 A RTS Horde mode would be awesome. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick_i_am Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 The actual unit balance in GC2 is pretty meh, WiC destroys it. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoma Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Played the Beta. Kind of feel the game seems to be underwhelming. Lacking the complexity of the standard RTS games due to simplifying most things, the feeling of the atmosphere that reflects WarHammer 40K is largely absent due to the focus of smaller skirmishes. The lacking of the awesome feeling that Company of Heroes succeeded in capturing with its life like animations, placing of structures, incredible sound effects and voice acting. Maybe its unfair to compare with WiC or GC2, but how nice it would be if Relic creates DoW2 in an epic scale like those games. Man, its pretty much disappointing if the beta is the representation of the actual product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calax Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 I haven't played the beta, but I get the feeling that with the space marines at least they were going for smaller troupe sizes in order to get the "real marine" feel (a single squad can take on a large force of standard infantry and win easily) Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Early reviews state that the campaign will be underwhelming and "dumbed down". Well, I guess I'll pass and better get Opposing Fronts instead. Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calax Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Early reviews state that the campaign will be underwhelming and "dumbed down". Well, I guess I'll pass and better get Opposing Fronts instead. uh CoH:OF? it unbalanced the game (like usual) The campaigns are ok, but it's no longer about tactics it's just swamping your opponent with armor. One of the German missions makes it possible to have a Tiger and two other Supertanks on the field AT THE SAME TIME! Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Early reviews state that the campaign will be underwhelming and "dumbed down". Well, I guess I'll pass and better get Opposing Fronts instead. uh CoH:OF? it unbalanced the game (like usual) The campaigns are ok, but it's no longer about tactics it's just swamping your opponent with armor. One of the German missions makes it possible to have a Tiger and two other Supertanks on the field AT THE SAME TIME! I also read that the campaign is better than in COH vanilla. So, why not giving it a try then? And who cares about balance? Fun is what is important. Balance...Pff. Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calax Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Early reviews state that the campaign will be underwhelming and "dumbed down". Well, I guess I'll pass and better get Opposing Fronts instead. uh CoH:OF? it unbalanced the game (like usual) The campaigns are ok, but it's no longer about tactics it's just swamping your opponent with armor. One of the German missions makes it possible to have a Tiger and two other Supertanks on the field AT THE SAME TIME! I also read that the campaign is better than in COH vanilla. So, why not giving it a try then? And who cares about balance? Fun is what is important. Balance...Pff. it's campaigns actually. COH:OF has a brit and a german campaign attached to it. I was able to fight my way through the german campaign but the british one I just didn't have the heart to finish. Victor of the 5 year fan fic competition! Kevin Butler will awesome your face off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgoth Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Early reviews state that the campaign will be underwhelming and "dumbed down". Well, I guess I'll pass and better get Opposing Fronts instead. uh CoH:OF? it unbalanced the game (like usual) The campaigns are ok, but it's no longer about tactics it's just swamping your opponent with armor. One of the German missions makes it possible to have a Tiger and two other Supertanks on the field AT THE SAME TIME! I also read that the campaign is better than in COH vanilla. So, why not giving it a try then? And who cares about balance? Fun is what is important. Balance...Pff. it's campaigns actually. COH:OF has a brit and a german campaign attached to it. I was able to fight my way through the german campaign but the british one I just didn't have the heart to finish. So, it's Tommies and Krauts then. Looking forward to it. Rain makes everything better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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