Alpha Protocol on Kotaku

[Wrath of Dagon]

IMO, RPG is about player choice, not combat, predefined character, or companions.

[~Di]

Well, with that definition Duke Nukem could be considered an RPG. He made choices. Any war game could be considered an RPG. You make choices there, too... choices with consequences. Name any FPS out there, and the player has choices to make, choices that affect gameplay and/or story. That doesn't make them RPGs. System Shock wasn't an RPG in my view either. It was a FPS, subgenre Thriller, that had variable skillsets.

 

No, taking a single-character through a story, whether it be Deus Ex or Thief or The Witcher, does not an RPG make by my definition. All those were great games, but IMO they were not comparible in role-playing qualities of Mass Effect, Jade Empire, NWN2, KOTOR1/2 or even the Elder Scrolls games (no, you don't need a party for an RPG... and simply adding a party does not an RPG make; Jagged Alliance 2, for example.)

 

Anyway, people can pin a title on any game based upon any criteria they think up. Heck, you can slap a label that says "cat" on the butt of a pig... but that doesn't automatically turn the pig into a cat or vis versa.

 

Y'all can call any game anything you wish, however. Arguing the nuances between what makes an RPG versus any other genre is not winnable because nobody's mind will be changed. So basically it's a waste of everyone's time.

[Wrath of Dagon]

It's the player who makes choices, not the character, so I'm not sure how Duke Nukem fits into this. In a wargame you're not playing a character, so you're not making character related choices, so that's not an RPG either.

[~Di]

It's the player who makes choices, not the character, so I'm not sure how Duke Nukem fits into this. In a wargame you're not playing a character, so you're not making character related choices, so that's not an RPG either.

 

Not to be argumentative, but in what game does the character make choices on his own without player input? I mean, choices are available for character action or dialogue... but in the end, who decides what exactly the charaction will do or say if not the players themselves?

 

My only point is that in any game where the player controls a main character, that character will throughout the course of the game have choices of action and dialogue. Thief certainly did, and it was no RPG. No One Lives Forever certainly did, and it was no RPG. Gothic did as well, and I didn't consider it an RPG... just one man's journey, which is what Deus Ex was and many other excellent action games. I suspect that in my view Alpha Protocol will be the same.

 

Now clearly I'm a big fan of some of these non-RPG genre games, like Deus Ex, so if Alpha Protocol is along those lines I very well might love it. However, if it's more the spiritual successor to, say, Hitman, I'm fairly certain I won't be buying.

Edited July 23, 2008 by ~Di

[Volourn]

"I hope Obsidian knows it's going down a risky road. RPG and FPS fans are all very far apart, and by trying to please everyone, there's a good chance you'll end up pleasing no one."

 

Despite its detractors, ME's success shows that you can blend both crowds (even though neither ME or AP are FPS)...

[mkreku]

Yeah, I think Deus Ex did quite well too, being GOTY and all.. There's nothing stopping a RPG from having a FPS combat model.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Yeah, I think Deus Ex did quite well too, being GOTY and all.. There's nothing stopping a RPG from having a FPS combat model.

 

That was my 20 second worry right there. I'm sure they'll pull off a hybrid well, but I wonder how much RPG will be left in the actual game. I'm all for real-time combat, but I like seeing heavy RPG elements in action RPGs.

[Xard]

there is already ****tons of RPG elements in AP

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

there is already ****tons of RPG elements in AP

 

... um, how do you know that?

[Musopticon?]

Going by the previews, which I admit can be making rather outrageous claims, AP is shaping up to have the largest amount of choice and consequence in any game released this decade. And that's a lot.

 

I'm assured that Obsidz will deliver on the rpg department, and I'm happy they are taking some distances from endless D&D tables and numbers.

[random n00b]

Going by the previews, which I admit can be making rather outrageous claims, AP is shaping up to have the largest amount of choice and consequence in any game released this decade. And that's a lot.

 

I'm assured that Obsidz will deliver on the rpg department, and I'm happy they are taking some distances from endless D&D tables and numbers.

"But C&C alone doesn't make a RPG!" et al

 

Heh. I actually liked how PKM kinda dismantled the "conventional" RPG definition in the other thread, even if he wasn't playing completely fair.

 

Seriously, after (re-re-re)re-playing Deus Ex and reading a bit about AP, I'm starting to get rather hyped about this baby.

[Wrath of Dagon]

It's the player who makes choices, not the character, so I'm not sure how Duke Nukem fits into this. In a wargame you're not playing a character, so you're not making character related choices, so that's not an RPG either.

 

Not to be argumentative, but in what game does the character make choices on his own without player input? I mean, choices are available for character action or dialogue... but in the end, who decides what exactly the charaction will do or say if not the players themselves?

 

My only point is that in any game where the player controls a main character, that character will throughout the course of the game have choices of action and dialogue. Thief certainly did, and it was no RPG. No One Lives Forever certainly did, and it was no RPG. Gothic did as well, and I didn't consider it an RPG... just one man's journey, which is what Deus Ex was and many other excellent action games. I suspect that in my view Alpha Protocol will be the same.

 

Now clearly I'm a big fan of some of these non-RPG genre games, like Deus Ex, so if Alpha Protocol is along those lines I very well might love it. However, if it's more the spiritual successor to, say, Hitman, I'm fairly certain I won't be buying.

In Thief 3 (I assume others are the same), you make decisions how to approach a situation, but you don't make any dialog or story related choices, so it's an adventure game, not an RPG. If it did have dialog choices as you appear to claim, then I'd say it was an RPG. Although choosing to side with Hammerites or Pagans (?) does come pretty close to making it an RPG in that one aspect. Anyway, it appears your definition of RPG is different from mine, and I'm not sure anything is acomplished in arguing over definitions.

[~Di]

... Anyway, it appears your definition of RPG is different from mine, and I'm not sure anything is acomplished in arguing over definitions.

 

Agreed. The most important part of any game is not its category; it is how immersive and fun the game is to play! I'm looking forward to learning more about AP.