Bioware sold out

[Gromnir]

Gromnir played on xbox

Did you post reactions/capsule review? If you've a link handy, I'd appreciate.

 

 

will check... got the old heave-ho from priestly, so am not sure if we can go back into our account to check for old posts. if you honestly is curious, and Gromnir cannot find link, we can reconstruct and post here at obsidian.

 

"Gromnir keeps repeating arguments that have been dealt with already for some curious reason, but most strikingly, I am not sure why he disregards the possibility of a number of people who might have considered buying the game, but now will not, because of this move."

 

mostly 'cause we thinks that such argument is full o' crap. for chrissakes, gamers is the same people who complain 'bout buggy games and then continue to buy games on day 1 of release from same developers and publishers. most such Serious gamer complaints is mere noise. what is worse? buggy games that not work for months after purchasee? or the unlikely outcome that nobody will develop a workaround 3 years removed... or the diminished capacity to resell?

 

 

am gonna call bs

 

"I know I'm not going to run out on May 28 and buy the damned thing, that's for sure."

 

Di, at least, is honest. her fears may be largely unfounded (resulting from a handful of alarmists trying to cause panic,) but like so many others with fears (legit and otherwise) virtually all who were planning to buy before will still go out and buy on may 28.

 

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited May 9, 2008 by Gromnir

[~Di]

Dear god, the more I read the more confused I become. Cris Priesley also said this: "BioWare has used SecuROM for Neverwinter Nights, Knights of the Old Republic, Jade Emprie and now Mass Effect. So, yes I can say that we recommend it."

 

Now I clearly have played all those games and had no idea they had SecuRom on them. Obviously I've had no problem with them, and I sure didn't realize that they were checking on me every time I played. So is ME SecuRom going to be different somehow?

 

I just hate not understanding this stuff.

[Tigranes]

mostly 'cause we thinks that such argument is full o' crap.

 

In terms of online 'noise', there are just as much such disavowals (This is wrong but i buy anyway) as much as actual refusal to buy. Or are you saying consumer habits of video gamers are absolutely unchanged by personal complaints and always up to the media hype? It's tempting to say so, certainly, but it's not true, and I think there are a lot of grievances currently 'not enough' to break the camel's back, but certainly not nonexistent.

 

Di, at least, is honest. her fears may be largely unfounded (resulting from a handful of alarmists trying to cause panic,) but like so many others with fears (legit and otherwise) virtually all who were planning to buy before will still go out and buy on may 28.

 

Wait, what? The comment said Di will not buy on May 28. Also, the fears are not 'largely unfounded' caused by 'alarmists', I have no idea how you come up with that. The problems are real: what is at dispute is the consequences of these very real problems/issues. Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

 

Edit: For Di: SecuROM has never had the 10-day activation requiement up till now. SecuROM is actually a very common protection mechanism, and generally has revolved around needing the real CD in the drive to play (a very standard thing). What Prisley is doing is classic disinformation, and he should be kicked in the nuts for it: SecuROM isn't SecuROM of the days gone by anymore, saying that it still has the same name is stupid. ME SecuROM has the 10 day activation, thus it is very much different.

[Gromnir]

Dear god, the more I read the more confused I become. Cris Priesley also said this: "BioWare has used SecuROM for Neverwinter Nights, Knights of the Old Republic, Jade Emprie and now Mass Effect. So, yes I can say that we recommend it."

 

Now I clearly have played all those games and had no idea they had SecuRom on them. Obviously I've had no problem with them, and I sure didn't realize that they were checking on me every time I played. So is ME SecuRom going to be different somehow?

 

I just hate not understanding this stuff.

 

 

see above

 

"It requires a check every ten days and starts trying to check with the securom servers at -5 days. So you have a 5 day window. As long as yiu are connected to your ISP at some point during those five days when you run the game it shouldn't be a problem, dial up or not."

 

cg pretty much summed up what virtual all legit purchasers will have to contend with. is onerous indeed.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[mkreku]

am knowing that Gromnir didn't buy space rangers ii 'cause of starforce

Di, at least, is honest. her fears may be largely unfounded (resulting from a handful of alarmists trying to cause panic,) but like so many others with fears (legit and otherwise) virtually all who were planning to buy before will still go out and buy on may 28.

Pretty. ****ing. Ironic.

[Slowtrain]

Dear god, the more I read the more confused I become. Cris Priesley also said this: "BioWare has used SecuROM for Neverwinter Nights, Knights of the Old Republic, Jade Emprie and now Mass Effect. So, yes I can say that we recommend it."

 

Now I clearly have played all those games and had no idea they had SecuRom on them. Obviously I've had no problem with them, and I sure didn't realize that they were checking on me every time I played. So is ME SecuRom going to be different somehow?

 

I just hate not understanding this stuff.

 

 

Older version of securom, Di. The latest version does things differently. It was used in Bioshock and there were some problems there.

[Gromnir]

"Wait, what? The comment said Di will not buy on May 28. Also, the fears are not 'largely unfounded' caused by 'alarmists', I have no idea how you come up with that. The problems are real: what is at dispute is the consequences of these very real problems/issues. Maybe I'm misunderstanding."

 

no, you got right, and we looked at it wrong... though lord only knows why she would pass on purchase at this point. alarmist nonsense creating false panic.

 

 

btw,

 

to Di,

 

priestly is a bit of a fibber. he will mislead and flat out lie on occasion. is not uncommon for developer board monkeys to do so, but he is kinda clumsy and obvious 'bout it. don't rely solely on priestly... or derek french. is the 2 bio guys we would distrust if they told us water is wet.

 

when the furor dies down, pm one of the other bio guys and they will probably help you out.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited May 9, 2008 by Gromnir

[~Di]

Tigranis, Grommy and CrashGirl: Thanks. I thought I was losing my mind for a while there, because the outcry (89 pages and climbing at Bio's ME forums) seemed ludicrous if they've been using it for years.

 

What about this spyware stuff they are talking about? Is this verifiable or just alarmist crap? See, I don't know how to tell the difference.

[Gorth]

...moved a few wayward posts here, which seemed to have lost their way into another thread...

 

They might be on some previous page now though. Bonus replayability value of this thread

[~Di]

Hey, guys, all I said was that I wasn't going to rush out and buy it the day it's released. I'm going to be watching the Bio tech forums to see what kind of problems people are having with it, then make a decision about whether or not to buy.

 

I don't see that as being in a panic or alarmist. I see that as being fairly prudent. It's what I do with most games, BioWare's (oh, Obsidians also)being the exception. Until now.

Edited May 9, 2008 by ~Di

[~Di]

Tigranis, Grommy and CrashGirl: Thanks. I thought I was losing my mind for a while there, because the outcry (89 pages and climbing at Bio's ME forums) seemed ludicrous if they've been using it for years.

 

What about this spyware stuff they are talking about? Is this verifiable or just alarmist crap? See, I don't know how to tell the difference.

 

*confused*

 

Now my reply to posts which no longer exist don't even make sense. Where did you move them?

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Obviously I've had no problem with them, and I sure didn't realize that they were checking on me every time I played.

 

I do not believe they were, as I have played NWN II on an off-line PC for about a month or so without any problems - or at least I think I was off-line.

[Slowtrain]

Tigranis, Grommy and CrashGirl: Thanks. I thought I was losing my mind for a while there, because the outcry (89 pages and climbing at Bio's ME forums) seemed ludicrous if they've been using it for years.

 

What about this spyware stuff they are talking about? Is this verifiable or just alarmist crap? See, I don't know how to tell the difference.

 

 

Well, I tend to agree with Grommie, that from a technical "this is how it works" point of view, it is not terribly onerous or a burden. Simply the fact that scurom is installed on my computer isn't really going to stop me from buying the game.

 

I'm more opposed to what I see as almost a witchhunt mindset on the part of publishers. Just from a personal viewpoint, I don't know if I want to support that. I don't believe my not supporting it is going to make any difference, however. So that leaves me having to consider does doing somethign because of a principle, even though it clearly won't make any difference or advance that principle in any way, make me unutterably stupid and naive.

[Gromnir]

Hey, guys, all I said was that I wasn't going to rush out and buy it the day it's released. I'm going to be watching the Bio tech forums to see what kind of problems people are having with it, then make a decision about whether or not to buy.

 

I don't see that as being in a panic or alarmist. I see that as being fairly prudent. It's what I do with most games, BioWare's (oh, Obsidians also)being the exception. Until now.

 

 

recommendation:

 

never buy pc software on day 1 of release. has nothing to do with securom, but is simple reasonable precaution and good sense. motb were the first game we purchased pre- first patch release since our nightmare with nwn, and we only did so after 'bout 2 weeks o' hearing that motb were pretty darn stable for most people.

 

securom shouldn't be your concern... but is good sense to skip a day 1 purchase regardless.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Deadly_Nightshade]

What about this spyware stuff they are talking about? Is this verifiable or just alarmist crap?

 

Some of each from what I understand - Bioshock, the prize showcase of the "malware panic" movement, did trigger some rootkit detectors due to the similarly coded SecuROM 7.X variant used for that game.

[Gromnir]

am knowing that Gromnir didn't buy space rangers ii 'cause of starforce

Di, at least, is honest. her fears may be largely unfounded (resulting from a handful of alarmists trying to cause panic,) but like so many others with fears (legit and otherwise) virtually all who were planning to buy before will still go out and buy on may 28.

Pretty. ****ing. Ironic.

 

 

not at all. Gromnir not lump himself in with the general mass o' brainless gamer.

 

you ASSumed... and that ain't the least bit ironic or surprising.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[~Di]

Tigranis, Grommy and CrashGirl: Thanks. I thought I was losing my mind for a while there, because the outcry (89 pages and climbing at Bio's ME forums) seemed ludicrous if they've been using it for years.

 

What about this spyware stuff they are talking about? Is this verifiable or just alarmist crap? See, I don't know how to tell the difference.

 

 

Well, I tend to agree with Grommie, that from a technical "this is how it works" point of view, it is not terribly onerous or a burden. Simply the fact that scurom is installed on my computer isn't really going to stop me from buying the game.

 

I'm more opposed to what I see as almost a witchhunt mindset on the part of publishers. Just from a personal viewpoint, I don't know if I want to support that. I don't believe my not supporting it is going to make any difference, however. So that leaves me having to consider does doing somethign because of a principle, even though it clearly won't make any difference or advance that principle in any way, make me unutterably stupid and naive.

 

I don't entirely blame the publishers. They aren't in the business to give away free games, so they do what a bank does when it gets robbed. Beef up security. Honestly, I kinda-sorta saw this coming over the years, but I didn't think it would get to the point where you could no longer play a single-player game unless you had an internet connection that could be invisibly verified every 10 days.

 

I really, really wanted ME. I'm going to think about it over the next few weeks, read up on SecROM, watch the Bio tech forums for a couple of weeks after it's released, then decide.

 

Grommy: I don't think I'm brainless.

Edited May 9, 2008 by ~Di

[Tigranes]

I don't believe my not supporting it is going to make any difference, however. So that leaves me having to consider does doing somethign because of a principle, even though it clearly won't make any difference or advance that principle in any way, make me unutterably stupid and naive.

 

*shrug* the only way to change that social fact (that you dont' make a difference) is to pretend as if it does. Right now we are locked in a discourse of "this is wrong, but I know I can't do anything about it, so I accept it." Which is distinctly different from "this is wrong, and I know I can't do much about it, but I will act as if I can, and refuse it.", even if they both have very similar short/medium-term results in terms of market forces and consumption habits in general. Gromnir's point applies in the sense that we can't expect companies to just be nicey-nice and not look at the $ in front of them, but I don't think it's benefitial in any way to accept the violation of the principle because the principle cannot be advanced. Besides, if someone calls you stupid and naive, what does it matter? In this case it's okay to be 'stupid and naive' because you don't really lose anything. In other circumstances, where you do, you are forced to fold your principles, but not here.

[Slowtrain]

Tigranis, Grommy and CrashGirl: Thanks. I thought I was losing my mind for a while there, because the outcry (89 pages and climbing at Bio's ME forums) seemed ludicrous if they've been using it for years.

 

What about this spyware stuff they are talking about? Is this verifiable or just alarmist crap? See, I don't know how to tell the difference.

 

 

Well, I tend to agree with Grommie, that from a technical "this is how it works" point of view, it is not terribly onerous or a burden. Simply the fact that scurom is installed on my computer isn't really going to stop me from buying the game.

 

I'm more opposed to what I see as almost a witchhunt mindset on the part of publishers. Just from a personal viewpoint, I don't know if I want to support that. I don't believe my not supporting it is going to make any difference, however. So that leaves me having to consider does doing somethign because of a principle, even though it clearly won't make any difference or advance that principle in any way, make me unutterably stupid and naive.

 

I don't entirely blame the publishers. They aren't in the business to give away free games, so they do what a bank does when it gets robbed. Beef up security. Honestly, I kinda-sorta saw this coming over the years, but I didn't think it would get to the point where you could no longer play a single-player game unless you had an internet connection that could be invisibly verified every 10 days.

 

I really, really wanted ME. I'm going to think about it over the next few weeks, read up on SecROM, watch the Bio tech forums for a couple of weeks after it's released, then decide.

 

Grommy: I don't think I'm brainless.

 

 

I used to think that way, but I've begun to change my mind.

 

Folloiwng this out where does it all end? When we all have to play our games naked in chains in a small white windowless room under the watchful eye of an EA security guard dual-wielding mace and a billy club? Because we might be pirates? IMO, there's something wrong with that.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Folloiwng this out where does it all end? When we all have to play our games naked in chains in a small white windowless room under the watchful eye of an EA security guard dual-wielding mace and a billy club? Because we might be pirates? IMO, there's something wrong with that.

 

But it's "for our own good."

[Slowtrain]

Folloiwng this out where does it all end? When we all have to play our games naked in chains in a small white windowless room under the watchful eye of an EA security guard dual-wielding mace and a billy club? Because we might be pirates? IMO, there's something wrong with that.

 

But it's "for our own good."

 

 

*intones*

 

the greater good

 

 

<3 Simon Peg

[blue]

will check... got the old heave-ho from priestly, so am not sure if we can go back into our account to check for old posts. if you honestly is curious, and Gromnir cannot find link, we can reconstruct and post here at obsidian.

Yes, I'm curious. (I've enjoyed some of yr previous commentaries, inc your long-ago react piece on KotOR1).

 

 

play our games naked in chains in a small white windowless room

Don't you play all your games that way?

 

 

Speaking of Obsidian member game commentaries .. thanks Crashie. Your enthusiasm for STALKER was infectious. I've not been especially fond of shooters, but your raves (and ravings) helped convince me to play. Am liking vy much.

[Gorth]

Tigranis, Grommy and CrashGirl: Thanks. I thought I was losing my mind for a while there, because the outcry (89 pages and climbing at Bio's ME forums) seemed ludicrous if they've been using it for years.

 

What about this spyware stuff they are talking about? Is this verifiable or just alarmist crap? See, I don't know how to tell the difference.

 

*confused*

 

Now my reply to posts which no longer exist don't even make sense. Where did you move them?

Uhh... was that a question to me?

 

I didn't move anything "away", I moved something here from elsewhere (from Gromnir, Blue and Tigranes).

[Humodour]

Yes, I verified it. From Cris Priesley's faq:

 

"Q: Why does MEPC need to reactivate every 10 days?

 

A: MEPC needs to authenticate every 10 days to ensure that the CD key used for the game is valid. This is designed to reduce piracy and protect valid CD keys."

 

"Q: What happens if I want to play MEPC but do not have an internet connection?

 

A: You cannot play MEPC without an internet connection. MEPC must authenticate when it is initially run and every 10 days thereafter."

 

"Q: How many installations will SecuROM allow from my copy of MEPC?

 

A: Since SecuROM has nothing to do with the installer, you can install and uninstall on the same machine over and over again without any problems. SecuROM also allows you to activate the game on 3 different machines. "

 

 

"Q: What happens if I exceed 3 activations?

 

A: Your first 3 activations will still work, but any subsequent activation will not work. "

 

 

This just sounds incredibly onerous and invasive. Fair enough, I'm not real techie when it comes to computer stuff, but dang.

 

There is no way I am buying that game.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

There is no way I am buying that game.

 

Don't you mean rent?