Happy Birthday, Saddam

[Walsingham]

I just noticed that today would have been Saddam Hussein's birthday. Except, you know, he's dead. I'm having a celebratory drink with my feet up in my new library.

[Sand]

Why?

[Walsingham]

Why?

 

Because the library is a good place to put one's feet up.

[astr0creep]

Why?

 

Because the library is a good place to put one's feet up.

 

I prefer a chair or... a... footrest.

 

 

Or a slave.

[Gfted1]

Yeah, its a real shame he had to go and lose his head like that.

[Walsingham]

Yeah, its a real shame he had to go and lose his head like that.

 

*snort*

 

lol

[Brdavs]

And the west proves its moral civilizatonal and cultural superiority once more lol... n1 peeps. And the same ones will be fuming at the mouths when palestinians are popping bubbly come september memorials heh.

 

 

 

But you sorta gotta give one thing to Sadam. He went with style despite all the **** they threw at him at the execution. A sorrid state of affairs that was. But then again, what isn`t, my interventionisim prone friends heh?

Edited April 28, 2008 by Brdavs

[walkerguy]

[Gfted1]

But you sorta gotta give one thing to Sadam. He went with style despite all the **** they threw at him at the execution.

 

Really? I heard he totally blew his top.

 

Ok, ok, Ill stop now.

[Walsingham]

And the west proves its moral civilizatonal and cultural superiority once more lol... n1 peeps. And the same ones will be fuming at the mouths when palestinians are popping bubbly come september memorials heh.

 

 

 

But you sorta gotta give one thing to Sadam. He went with style despite all the **** they threw at him at the execution. A sorrid state of affairs that was. But then again, what isn`t, my interventionisim prone friends heh?

 

My dear boy. Sneer all you want at how things went after he's gone. We can and do debate it at great length. But tell me for one millisecond that he and his line are not best off gone. I am toasting the fact that I no-longer have to breathe the same air, in a partisan unintellectual feast of home cooked barbecue pork and good English cider. Any problems may be addressed to the Rifle Regiment.

[Brdavs]

Wish not for "his line gone" for many you hold could very well dissappear aswell heh...

 

 

And it was not as muh as a snear at how things progressed in Iraq but at the the irony of the fact that we are supposed to be figthing agains people demostrating such behaveour as you do heh... For instance, tell me for one millisecond that the worlds riches are distrubuted fairly and that the twins were not a symbol of the grave injustice suffered by a vast majority of worlds population then.

 

 

Oh and btw, I`d put it to you that your vintage 19th century views of life&global politicis would land a German in a truckload of trouble these days, but I`d prolly get into trouble myself heh...

I`ll just settle archiving this reference amongst many others of fundamental lack of respect for life, culture & ideology not to our "taste". Then everytime a thread comes up of how "they" have barbaric customs or how a certain distastefull thig was celebrated on the streets or how our ideals are trampeled etc. thus somehow justifying our policies towars the "midleage men" I can have a nice laugh of the "kettle-black" variety.

Edited April 28, 2008 by Brdavs

[Walsingham]

Wish not for "his line gone" for many you hold could very well dissappear aswell heh...

 

 

And it was not as muh as a snear at how things progressed in Iraq but at the the irony of the fact that we are supposed to be figthing agains people demostrating such behaveour as you do heh... For instance, tell me for one millisecond that the worlds riches are distrubuted fairly and that the twins were not a symbol of the grave injustice suffered by a vast majority of worlds population then.

 

 

Oh and btw, I`d put it to you that your vintage 19th century views of life&global politicis would land a German in a truckload of trouble these days, but I`d prolly get into trouble myself heh...

I`ll just settle archiving this reference amongst many others of fundamental lack of respect for life, culture & ideology not to our "taste". Then everytime a thread comes up of how "they" have barbaric customs or how a certain distastefull thig was celebrated on the streets or how our ideals are trampeled etc. thus somehow justifying our policies towars the "midleage men" I can have a nice laugh of the "kettle-black" variety.

 

Kettleblack is a fine game for a sunny afternoon, but speaking purely personally I regard it as nothing more than a game. Yes my country is frequently immoral or at least amoral, but I happen to believe that we can and in fact SHOULD feel better than regimes/countries where brutality and corruption ARE the rule of law rather than against the rule of law.

[Azarkon]

It is too early to tell how Saddam will be remembered by history.

[Gorgon]

Celebrating an execution is really bad form you know, even if he had it coming.

[babydol]

Celebrating an execution is really bad form you know, even if he had it coming.

If he was celebrating the execution wouldn't he be doing so on December 30? He's just remembering Saddam on his birthday, and not missing him, is all.

[SteveThaiBinh]

He has a surviving daughter or two, I believe, so the line's not quite gone. Neither his capture nor his execution had the desired effect on Iraq, but perhaps it made little difference either way. What would have happened if he'd been sentenced to life imprisonment instead? Perhaps after a year or two in solitary he could have been persuaded to call on the Sunni insurgents/terrorists to lay down their arms in exchange for satellite television. Would he have done so? Would it have made a difference if he had? Aside from the moral implications (which to me are central) I can't help thinking that thr execution closed off options that might have been useful later down the line.

[Azarkon]

The controversy over the death penalty has always struck me as the debate between the eternally optimistic and the pathologically cynical.

 

What can change the nature of a man?

[Humodour]

The controversy over the death penalty has always struck me as the debate between the eternally optimistic and the pathologically cynical.

 

And as such I am yet to truly decide if I am for or against it.

 

I can safely say I'm against the American implementation of it (as with most things, much as I admire America at times).

[Walsingham]

He has a surviving daughter or two, I believe, so the line's not quite gone. Neither his capture nor his execution had the desired effect on Iraq, but perhaps it made little difference either way. What would have happened if he'd been sentenced to life imprisonment instead? Perhaps after a year or two in solitary he could have been persuaded to call on the Sunni insurgents/terrorists to lay down their arms in exchange for satellite television. Would he have done so? Would it have made a difference if he had? Aside from the moral implications (which to me are central) I can't help thinking that thr execution closed off options that might have been useful later down the line.

 

I am reminded of that classic line in PST in Fallen From Grace's library:

 

What right had we to let him live?

[walkerguy]

What right do we have to pass judgement? Really.

Edited April 29, 2008 by walkerguy

[babydol]

Um, it's really only for God to judge, but he WAS guilty of war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide. You think we should have let him LIVE?

[Gorgon]

Um, it's really only for God to judge, but he WAS guilty of war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide. You think we should have let him LIVE?

Yep. Thats how we usually handle war criminals,and that might actually have happened if not for two reasons.

 

1. The Bush administration had come out strongly against the international war crimes tribunal, ostensibly worried that the court would be unable to deal with politically motivated charges against US nationals. So to preserve its own integrity it had to go against international justice.

 

2. The decision to hand the trial over to the Iraqi courts which had not had any experience with basic concepts of justice for several decades.

 

In the end we expect overthrown dictators to either escape into hiding, make a deal, or pay the ultimate price. Those were his options. He ran out of cash and allies and that was that. The trial just served to delay his ritual sacrifice long enough to be acceptable by western standards.

 

In the end Sadam was above justice, just as surely as if he had escaped to a new life in Bolivia, thats what bothers me, not that he died, but the circumstances.

Edited April 29, 2008 by Gorgon

[walkerguy]

"Deserve death?

[Gorgon]

It has value when order or power, has to decide what to do with larger than life tyrants.

 

Forgive the comparison, but it seemed more just to me that Hitler died alone in his bunker, having witnessed the complete destruction of his grand murderous project than had he been made to face the victor's justice at Neurenburg. Sadam should have died in his hole. Mostly for our own sakes.

[Walsingham]

2. The decision to hand the trial over to the Iraqi courts which had not had any experience with basic concepts of justice for several decades.

 

A certain poetic justice there, then.

 

EDIT: In Engalnd we have a poet laureate. Maybe he/she should get a place with the Law Lords.