Tale Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 Hell, even BG2 lacked that. Except for that one guy who really disliked Viconia. "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
Moatilliatta Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 (edited) and god I am not taking Dynaheir around). Then you're not taking Minsc as Dynaheir is an important part of his character. Edited June 7, 2008 by Gorth The message quoted was edited
Pidesco Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 Hell, even BG2 lacked that. Except for that one guy who really disliked Viconia. Minsc and Edwin get to fighting in BG2 as well. "My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian touristI am Dan Quayle of the Romans.I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.Heja Sverige!!Everyone should cuffawkle more.The wrench is your friend.
Tale Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 Hell, even BG2 lacked that. Except for that one guy who really disliked Viconia. Minsc and Edwin get to fighting in BG2 as well. I must have completely missed that. I've taken Minsc and Edwin every time I play. "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
Musopticon? Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 And Haer'Dalis eventually fights you for Aerie if you have both in your party. Which is pretty damn awesome. kirottu said: I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden. It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai. So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds
Monte Carlo Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 And Haer'Dalis eventually fights you for Aerie if you have both in your party. Which is pretty damn awesome. It's not awesome, given that he has the combat ability of a pigeon. He get's insta-chunked in about three rounds, leaving only a 1980's pop band haircut as a reminder that he ever existed. Cheers MC
Tale Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 Reading up, apparently Aerie gets really pissy with quite a few people. Man, I need to reconsider my group just so I can see some of this stuff. "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
Monte Carlo Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 I love BG2 to bits. I really do. It's the first game I install on any new 'puter. However, it's just a fact that the BG2 NPCs aren't as good as the BG1 NPCs, ironic really given how much extra dialogue they get. I almost always end up with a similar party. OK, I did play a "Team Gimp" game with the less popular NPCs almost all the way to Throne of Bhaal, but I ended up deleting it. Bad Haircut Teifling, Aerie, Druid-Boy etc are no way near as good as Shar-Teel, Tiax or Xan (and i'm not talking about stats, just general coolness). And leaving out Coran was actually the worst game design decision since the Pool of Radiance OS killa bug. Note to Modders - rather than self-indulgent fan-fic whimsy when it comes to making NPCs, why not just recreate the best BG1 NPCs to the quality of, say, Kelsey? That would rock. Cheerio MC
Musopticon? Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 I still don't understand what people saw in BG1 npcs over BG2 ones. Yeah yeah, no Anomen and certainly no Aerie, but at least they were actually characters and not a few lines with a wacky voice-over. Most characters in BG1 had the depth of IWD homebrew party members. Though I've never played past Cloakwood, but there wasn't much more than killing bandits and xvarts with an endless tirade of "I am become death, destroyer of worlds, etc" before that. Just gaaah... kirottu said: I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden. It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai. So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds
Arkan Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 I still don't understand what people saw in BG1 npcs over BG2 ones. Yeah yeah, no Anomen and certainly no Aerie, but at least they were actually characters and not a few lines with a wacky voice-over. Most characters in BG1 had the depth of IWD homebrew party members. Though I've never played past Cloakwood, but there wasn't much more than killing bandits and xvarts with an endless tirade of "I am become death, destroyer of worlds, etc" before that. Just gaaah... Very few xvarts and vanilla bandits after cloakwood. "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials "I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta
Musopticon? Posted June 6, 2008 Posted June 6, 2008 I'll definitely get back to it eventually, with Tutu perhaps. And yeah, I did play BG1 after playing 2. kirottu said: I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden. It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai. So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds
Dark_Raven Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 And Haer'Dalis eventually fights you for Aerie if you have both in your party. Which is pretty damn awesome. It's not awesome, given that he has the combat ability of a pigeon. He get's insta-chunked in about three rounds, leaving only a 1980's pop band haircut as a reminder that he ever existed. Cheers MC Thats the best thing that could happen to Haer'Dalis. Hades was the life of the party. RIP You'll be missed.
Tigranes Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 The thing is, though, I played BG2 first. In context of the fleshed out characters, looking at them in BG1 was certainly different than for a lot of people. I think BG1 had better character concepts (i.e. Kivan, Tiax, etc., over Aerie and Anomen) in general, but I have trouble seeing BG2's extra dialogue and stuff as a negative factor. And about Dynaheir: What I usually imagine when I roleplay non-good is that having picked up Minsc and Edwin at Nashkel, my protagonist evaluates the situation in terms of practical advantages. He's in a position where he can hardly trust anyone, but desperately needs allies, and quickly, to build a fighting force against Sarevok. He wants to take Minsc for his fighting prowess, but is distrustful of having 'factions' in his party: he wants them all loyal and bound to him, not with their own agendas and small factions that plot together (which is why he will never take Xzar/Montaron, and barely tolerate Khalid/Jaheira). Eventually, he comes to the conclusion that having M/E is superior to M/D. During the confusion of the gnoll fortress attack, he, shall we say, 'turns a blind eye' while Edwin sneakily sends a flame arrow down the hole, while Minsc is occupied. Sure, it's nowhere as plausible as the original stories and it is definitely cold-hearted. But that's a much more realistic 'evil' than 'ally with Edwin and kill Minsc'. Personally, for the sake of fun gameplay I'm willing to overlook a few big stretches of imagination. Let's Play: Icewind Dale Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Icewind Dale II Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Divinity II (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG1 (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG2 (In Progress)
Humodour Posted June 7, 2008 Author Posted June 7, 2008 Don't you think the presence of fresh scorch marks, fresh blood, and a burning arrow sticking out of the body might make Minsc suspicious, especially since none of the gnolls have fire or bows?
Tigranes Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 I thought flame arrows disappeared upon contact. Yeah, that's how much I know about FR/D&D. Yeah, I'm not saying my imaginary situation would actually be plausible. It's just something I use. I don't always do this - for other things the slightest break in immersion really thtrows me off - but I think in such cases the gameplay allure of having them together overcomes it. Let's Play: Icewind Dale Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Icewind Dale II Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Divinity II (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG1 (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG2 (In Progress)
Humodour Posted June 7, 2008 Author Posted June 7, 2008 Haha, nah I agree with you. I always took Dyn if I took Minsc, to be honest, because she was a good caster and I didn't mind her character. Plus I hated Edwin. But certainly, I was never a fan of BG's forced fights or forced teams. People said it made it a good RPG, but I think story and meaningful dialogue choice make a good RPG, which, to be honest, BG1 and 2 didn't have a whole lot of (compared to something like Torment or Deus Ex). But then again, I didn't specifically play BG for dialogue choice and story - the tactical combat and character progression was just as important, so I still had a good time.
Moatilliatta Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 I always took Dyn if I took Minsc,... I always took her because Hale and Cummings are a pretty awesome voice acting duo. Tigranes remind me of a thief who knows and acknowledges that stealing is wrong and still do it.
Pidesco Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 Haha, nah I agree with you. I always took Dyn if I took Minsc, to be honest, because she was a good caster and I didn't mind her character. Plus I hated Edwin. But certainly, I was never a fan of BG's forced fights or forced teams. People said it made it a good RPG, but I think story and meaningful dialogue choice make a good RPG, which, to be honest, BG1 and 2 didn't have a whole lot of (compared to something like Torment or Deus Ex). But then again, I didn't specifically play BG for dialogue choice and story - the tactical combat and character progression was just as important, so I still had a good time. I thought the forced teams were one of the best things about BG. It forced you to think strategically and personally about who you wanted in your party, and to think about the party members as actual people instead of just numbers on screen. "My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian touristI am Dan Quayle of the Romans.I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.Heja Sverige!!Everyone should cuffawkle more.The wrench is your friend.
Moatilliatta Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 I thought the forced teams were one of the best things about BG. It forced you to think strategically and personally about who you wanted in your party, and to think about the party members as actual people instead of just numbers on screen. And we can all agree that Tigranes example shows that that was wildly succesfull. It would have needed more development if that was what Bioware tried to achieve.
Pidesco Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 Unfortunately, they decided to drop that entirely from their games after BG2. "My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian touristI am Dan Quayle of the Romans.I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.Heja Sverige!!Everyone should cuffawkle more.The wrench is your friend.
Tale Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 (edited) I always took Dyn if I took Minsc,... I always took her because Hale and Cummings are a pretty awesome voice acting duo. Tigranes remind me of a thief who knows and acknowledges that stealing is wrong and still do it. Crap. I didn't know Naomi Hunter (and Emma Emmerich) was Dynaheir. Now I might have to start liking her. Edit: Double Crap, she's also Mazzy. The Halfling. I hate Halflings. Edited June 7, 2008 by Tale "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
Humodour Posted June 7, 2008 Author Posted June 7, 2008 Haha, nah I agree with you. I always took Dyn if I took Minsc, to be honest, because she was a good caster and I didn't mind her character. Plus I hated Edwin. But certainly, I was never a fan of BG's forced fights or forced teams. People said it made it a good RPG, but I think story and meaningful dialogue choice make a good RPG, which, to be honest, BG1 and 2 didn't have a whole lot of (compared to something like Torment or Deus Ex). But then again, I didn't specifically play BG for dialogue choice and story - the tactical combat and character progression was just as important, so I still had a good time. I thought the forced teams were one of the best things about BG. It forced you to think strategically and personally about who you wanted in your party, and to think about the party members as actual people instead of just numbers on screen. Sound logic, but of negligible import in-game. Benefits don't outweigh the cons, gameplay-wise, either, IMHO.
Moatilliatta Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 I always took Dyn if I took Minsc,... I always took her because Hale and Cummings are a pretty awesome voice acting duo. Tigranes remind me of a thief who knows and acknowledges that stealing is wrong and still do it. Crap. I didn't know Naomi Hunter (and Emma Emmerich) was Dynaheir. Now I might have to start liking her. Edit: Double Crap, she's also Mazzy. The Halfling. I hate Halflings. I see that you are a gentleman of good taste. The primary worth in Dyn and Mazzy is that good voice acting can make any character worthwhile. Hell, Hale is the reason why I started with a female shepard in Mass Effect. Meer shouldn't even be allowed to voice crappy commercials.
SirPetrakus Posted June 7, 2008 Posted June 7, 2008 Jaheira is teh awesome! Hear hear! *sound of champagne glasses ringing*
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