NASA discussing preliminary plans to build moon bases

[Humodour]

http://physorg.com/news127758364.html

 

They're aiming for 6 month stays similar to the International Space Station.

 

I still can't believe they actually built and manned the ISS, now moon bases? This is awesome.

 

Recent developments in ion drive technology are cool, too. The Dawn, for example, fires only one ion at a time, and the thrust that gives is equal to a piece of paper falling on your hand. But it fires ion after ion, never stopping. Normal rocket engines do one big burst and that's it. They're fast, but inefficient. The Dawn can, over time, reach speeds massively higher, with a fraction of the fuel and weight. They're likely to be the future of any inter-stellar travel attempts.

 

They also recently showed that plants can live in the moon's 'soil', if some bacteria are also introduced. Id est: you don't need to bring soil from earth.

[Pidesco]

1999 can still happen.

[Xard]

fantastic

[GreasyDogMeat]

All I have to say; Its about damn time!

 

Will moon burgers be any better?

[Wistrik]

1999 can still happen.

Yes, I think I saw every episode at least twice when I was a kid. Let's hope the moon remains in Earth's orbit this time. (BTW, they never addressed the issue of the broken surfing on Earth after that happened, since the only remaining tides were solar.)

[tripleRRR]

That's awesome. Give us something positive to work for.

[Brdavs]

I won`t be holding my breath heh... What`s Bushes timeframe to reach Mars again lol?

Thoe with Chinese everincreasing abitions regarding space and Russias comeback things may yet again pick up .

 

Personally I`m pinning my hopes on private enterprises and inovators finding new and cheaper ways to "get up there" and for things to pick up from there.

[samm]

Ah hell, as cool as expanding to space seems, I think humanity should first solve their problems on earth before expanding their conflicts into our solar system :/

[Pidesco]

Ah hell, as cool as expanding to space seems, I think humanity should first solve their problems on earth before expanding their conflicts into our solar system :/

 

To solve our conflicts will have to encounter a belligerent alien race. Or a belligerent robot race. Like the Cylons. Or V'ger.

[Humodour]

I won`t be holding my breath heh... What`s Bushes timeframe to reach Mars again lol?

Thoe with Chinese everincreasing abitions regarding space and Russias comeback things may yet again pick up .

 

1) It's got nothing to do with Bush

2) China isn't part of the Western space initiative, so I am of the mind that America/Europe/Russia has the highest chance of getting into space. Has China even built a permanent space base yet?

 

Personally I`m pinning my hopes on private enterprises and inovators finding new and cheaper ways to "get up there" and for things to pick up from there.

 

Most private contractors work with the governments instead because that's where the money is. It'd be good to see some more involvement from other investors, but personally I think space is something that should be frontiered by governments first and foremost.

 

Ah hell, as cool as expanding to space seems, I think humanity should first solve their problems on earth before expanding their conflicts into our solar system :/

 

Really? Personally I'd prefer if governments work together for a greater cause, such as space stuff, and waste their money on space stuff, than on weapons and border concerns. I see it as a way to help unite the world.

Edited April 20, 2008 by Krezack

[Enoch]

Governments have to fund space exploration because there's no real business case for anything out further than communications satellites.

 

Human space flight in particular is an enormous money-sink. When you send people up, 95% of what you send up with them is there just to keep them alive. Unmanned space flight can achieve pretty much everything that human space flight can (exception: moon golf), at a fraction of the cost. In other words, HAL was right.

Edited April 21, 2008 by Enoch

[Laozi]

They better get Moon Unit Alpha and Zappa ready for launch.

[tripleRRR]

Ah hell, as cool as expanding to space seems, I think humanity should first solve their problems on earth before expanding their conflicts into our solar system :/

 

 

Won't ever happen. We have the same old problems now as we have always had, along with many new ones.

[Humodour]

Ah hell, as cool as expanding to space seems, I think humanity should first solve their problems on earth before expanding their conflicts into our solar system :/

 

 

Won't ever happen. We have the same old problems now as we have always had, along with many new ones.

 

And there are many old problems we don't have now.

[Nick_i_am]

Recent developments in ion drive technology are cool, too. The Dawn, for example, fires only one ion at a time, and the thrust that gives is equal to a piece of paper falling on your hand. But it fires ion after ion, never stopping. Normal rocket engines do one big burst and that's it. They're fast, but inefficient. The Dawn can, over time, reach speeds massively higher, with a fraction of the fuel and weight.

 

That's awsome.

[Humodour]

Recent developments in ion drive technology are cool, too. The Dawn, for example, fires only one ion at a time, and the thrust that gives is equal to a piece of paper falling on your hand. But it fires ion after ion, never stopping. Normal rocket engines do one big burst and that's it. They're fast, but inefficient. The Dawn can, over time, reach speeds massively higher, with a fraction of the fuel and weight.

 

That's awsome.

 

I thought it was particularly impressive, too. It's like a modern case of the Tortoise and the Hare. Go you underdog, go!

 

Also, ion drives are bloody awesome looking. There is no massive rocket fire or afterburn, just a consistent, eerie, pale blue glow where the ions are emitted. Very futuristic-looking. That's for the ones that emit many ions at once of course.

[Xard]

ion is one of the coolest words in physics by the way, it rolls nicely

[Gfted1]

Recent developments in ion drive technology are cool, too. The Dawn, for example, fires only one ion at a time, and the thrust that gives is equal to a piece of paper falling on your hand. But it fires ion after ion, never stopping. Normal rocket engines do one big burst and that's it. They're fast, but inefficient. The Dawn can, over time, reach speeds massively higher, with a fraction of the fuel and weight.

 

That's awsome.

 

I thought it was particularly impressive, too. It's like a modern case of the Tortoise and the Hare. Go you underdog, go!

 

Also, ion drives are bloody awesome looking. There is no massive rocket fire or afterburn, just a consistent, eerie, pale blue glow where the ions are emitted. Very futuristic-looking. That's for the ones that emit many ions at once of course.

 

 

Im not sure why the article refers to this as recent, unless "one ion at a time" is new. IIRC, there is already an ion driven craft in space right now.

 

EDIT: Yep, wiki has a long list of real world ion drives under the "Missions" subsection.

Edited April 21, 2008 by Gfted1

[Humodour]

Where did the article say ion drives are recent? Does it even mention ion drives?

 

Although Dawn's method of acceleration with patience is new, and ion drives have been underutilised so far (they're more expensive, but rockets can't do inter-stellar trips and ions can).

[taks]

When you send people up, 95% of what you send up with them is there just to keep them alive.

fuel is the biggie, actually... well, coupled with oft dispensable fuel containers (even the SRBs the shuttle uses are technically dispensable. the only reason we reuse them is because that was part of the original requirement for the program. it's much cheaper to simply build new ones).

 

getting to orbit is the hard part, but once you're there, it's much easier to expand your reach (from a fuel consumption standpoint).

 

AFAIK, ion drives have been around for quite a while. they just take an eternity to get up to speed.

 

taks

[samm]

Ha, the Dawn is great! Leading to scenes like "We're roughly 286'994'172'353 particles away from travelling speed"

 

Really? Personally I'd prefer if governments work together for a greater cause, such as space stuff, and waste their money on space stuff, than on weapons and border concerns. I see it as a way to help unite the world.

Sure, I'd prefer that too! It doesn't seem believable however, that when it comes to securing extraterestrial territory, the nations of the earth stand united. Cf. Russia and the north pole. I mean, I love the idea of space travel, exploring other planets/moons etc., and the technology involved/envisioned is amazing (and I'm European, thus not using emphatic words like "love", "amazing", "great" if I don't mean them ), but I just can't see it happen for a human collective in the near future. Edited April 21, 2008 by samm

[Humodour]

Ha, the Dawn is great! Leading to scenes like "We're roughly 286'994'172'353 particles away from travelling speed"

 

Really? Personally I'd prefer if governments work together for a greater cause, such as space stuff, and waste their money on space stuff, than on weapons and border concerns. I see it as a way to help unite the world.

Sure, I'd prefer that too! It doesn't seem believable however, that when it comes to securing extraterestrial territory, the nations of the earth stand united. Cf. Russia and the north pole. I mean, I love the idea of space travel, exploring other planets/moons etc., and the technology involved/envisioned is amazing (and I'm European, thus not using emphatic words like "love", "amazing", "great" if I don't mean them ), but I just can't see it happen for a human collective in the near future.

 

Haha. Yeah, the Dawn takes about 4 years to become faster than a rocket engine (at something like 1/40th the fuel), but after that it's gravy.

 

I think you overestimate the scope of this mission, samm. The moon isn't something with resources to exploit. Even if it were, there's no feasible way to do so without sharing. This mission is a proof of concept sort of thing - it doesn't return the money that is put into it; nothing in space does except satellites.

 

Damn Europeans and your bleak world-views!

[Brdavs]

1) It's got nothing to do with Bush

2) China isn't part of the Western space initiative, so I am of the mind that America/Europe/Russia has the highest chance of getting into space. Has China even built a permanent space base yet?

 

1) He announced it JFK style?

2) So the fact they`re not western is a handicap? Chinas space programme has some grand plans in motion, including a premanent space station. But I think you missed my point: Reammurgence of ambitious rival space programmes in ideologicaly different blocks will again add the spark to the space race by once again making it into a pissing contest. After the race to the moon the pace slowed down somewhat heh, a race to mars is just what the doctor ordered. That`s the proverbial human exploration spirit for you... doesn`t matter that there`s something out there... until some1 trys to get there that is, in that case we MUST get there first

Oh and there are plenty of resources out ther, including on the moon. Helium3 for one has fusion peeps droolong I believe....

 

Most private contractors work with the governments instead because that's where the money is. It'd be good to see some more involvement from other investors, but personally I think space is something that should be frontiered by governments first and foremost.

Again, I`m talking about the inicitives such as the x-prize... out of the box innovations that may be stummbeled uppon. Contractors that charge goverments for tin foil to wrap the spacesandwiches are not independant contractors as far as I`m concerned heh. monopoly is bad ;P As for the government argument... I really see no huge benefit of governments leading the way. I moreso see the huge risk of ever increasing militarization of space and territorial disputes "offworld".

 

UN needs its space angency heh. and it should be THE space agency

 

 

Really? Personally I'd prefer if governments work together for a greater cause, such as space stuff, and waste their money on space stuff, than on weapons and border concerns. I see it as a way to help unite the world.

 

USA turned down Russian proposal for a joint mission to Mars I hear... so much for governments working together for the greater good heh... Gotta make sure the right colours fly on them spacerocks yep yep hehe...

Edited April 22, 2008 by Brdavs

[Humodour]

1) It's got nothing to do with Bush

2) China isn't part of the Western space initiative, so I am of the mind that America/Europe/Russia has the highest chance of getting into space. Has China even built a permanent space base yet?

 

1) He announced it JFK style?

 

Right, I'll be sure to send Bush the memo "In the future, when NASA plans a new project, don't tell anybody".

 

Anyway, this thread is about plans for a moon base, not plans to send a human to mars.

 

2) So the fact they`re not western is a handicap?

 

Pretty much. They're not part of the ISS team. Don't blame me for that.

 

Chinas space programme has some grand plans in motion, including a premanent space station. But I think you missed my point: Reammurgence of ambitious rival space programmes in ideologicaly different blocks will again add the spark to the space race by once again making it into a pissing contest. After the race to the moon the pace slowed down somewhat heh, a race to mars is just what the doctor ordered. That`s the proverbial human exploration spirit for you... doesn`t matter that there`s something out there... until some1 trys to get there that is, in that case we MUST get there first

Oh and there are plenty of resources out ther, including on the moon. Helium3 for one has fusion peeps droolong I believe....

 

That's nice. Good luck to China. And good luck to you trying to relive the 'glory days' of the cold war, but somehow I doubt you'll get much success.

 

Helium-3 might be found on the moon in viable quantities; there's no guarantee. Anyway, helium-3 isn't as good as some people hype it to be. It's not a wonderfuel; most analyses estimate that using helium-3 as a fuel isn't worth it (infrastructure wise, but also based on the huge amount of He-3 by weight needed), let alone mining it from the moon. If it gets to the point people start fighting over helium-3, China and America as you know them today will already be dust in the wind.

 

Most private contractors work with the governments instead because that's where the money is. It'd be good to see some more involvement from other investors, but personally I think space is something that should be frontiered by governments first and foremost.

Again, I`m talking about the inicitives such as the x-prize... out of the box innovations that may be stummbeled uppon. Contractors that charge goverments for tin foil to wrap the spacesandwiches are not independant contractors as far as I`m concerned heh. monopoly is bad ;P As for the government argument... I really see no huge benefit of governments leading the way. I moreso see the huge risk of ever increasing militarization of space and territorial disputes "offworld".

 

I think your imagination is getting too much air time here mate. It's a moon base. It's not a freaking missile silo on the moon. It's about a million times easier to strike earth from earth rather than from space. And we are so far away from 'colonising' space that it's laughable, yet you bring up 'offworld disputes' as if it's a valid argument for space today.

 

As for government monopoly - I'm very pleased the private sector is taking an interest in space. My point was that rules, regulations and restrictions on space should be in the government's hands (just as they are here on earth), and the government should hold the majority stake in space (Capitalists might disagree). If you can't see why at least government regulation is for the best, I'm seriously not going to argue with you.

 

UN needs its space angency heh. and it should be THE space agency

 

The entire EU has a space agency so that's a good first step. And the EU's space agency integrates fairly seamlessly with Russia's and America's. Other countries involved in the ISS are: Brazil, Canada, Japan. I think this is pretty close to a UN space agency.

 

China has expressed some interest in joining the ISS, but hasn't yet. It seems as though they'd much rather have everything to themselves and thus build their own. That's their choice.

 

Really? Personally I'd prefer if governments work together for a greater cause, such as space stuff, and waste their money on space stuff, than on weapons and border concerns. I see it as a way to help unite the world.

 

USA turned down Russian proposal for a joint mission to Mars I hear... so much for governments working together for the greater good heh... Gotta make sure the right colours fly on them spacerocks yep yep hehe...

 

While it annoys me that every post you make is political and aimed at seeing the worst in things, I'd just like to point out that Russia and the US have been working together in space for something like 20 years. If one of them wants to do a certain mission on their own, I hardly think it's time to proclaim a new cold war.

 

As a side note, NASA gets about half of their plutonium fuel for space from Russia, and as it stands has enough of their own to last about 2 more missions, running out in 2020. It's not the end of the space programme, but you can probably see why it's not the beginning of a new cold war, either.

[alanschu]

Take off every Zig!