Character Creation and Customization

[Spider]

There is really no point in arguing with Sand. He tends to be a bit irrational.

 

But since my post started this particular debate, I'd like to try and get back to my original point (which is on topic, although it used Mass Effect as an example). Because the post I quoted in the first place is kinda of important. So for reference, here is my post (with quote and all):

 

I just don't see how eliminating options makes for a better CRPG, especially when there is proof that giving players full creation control of their character doesn't hamper story quality in the least.

 

Please prove how Mass Effect's story wouldn't have been better if they had limited character choices more.

 

Sand, please not here how you were discussing story quality as a separate element from "fun factor". You specifically took two elements of a gaming and put them against each other concluding that one doesn't need to have a negative impact on the other. You even said you had proof.

 

So again, please present that proof. If you meant another game than ME, feel free to bring out that example. I was just guessing you meant ME due to you mentioning it earlier in the thread.

 

I'm not sure it's really going to matter in regards to AP though. My impression is that Michael Thorton won't really be a character unique enough to really force the issue in the way it's been done. I'm pretty sure any relatively new CIA operative could have been the focus on the game. I'd guess that the character is male because they want him to be able to flirt with all the girls (and to be able to have NPCs address him by name, but that could have been covered by just the last name, so I'm guessing the girls matter more).

 

Edit: I know I said I was going to let it go, but when others keep picking up on it, I just wanted to give it one more try.

Edited March 21, 2008 by Spider

[~Di]

Well. Remind me never to gush over a game I really like lest I be forced to offer "proof" of its superiority. Also remind me never to mention when Fallout fell from #1 on my all-time top ten game list, because the very heresy of confessing that I preferred any game to the "genre master."

 

Why on earth are so many folks rallying into a lynch mob because Visc likes Mass Effect better than Fallout? Can't he just say that he loved ME and can't think of any way to improve it without half the forum baring their fangs and going into a blood lust?

 

Not to mention that this is the Alpha Protocol forum...

 

Seriously, guys, lighten up on Visc. He's a nice guy. Really!

Edited March 21, 2008 by ~Di

[Nick_i_am]

Actually, it's pretty much just one guy and it's kinda sad.

[Humodour]

I hope they have traits like in Fallout (at the start or learned). They were a refreshing aspect to character creation.

 

Edit: I don't mean how Arcanum or Lionheart did them (they were just skill or 100% balanced stat modifiers, with no funny description either). I mean how Fallout did them - how they offered something unique that you couldn't really get otherwise, or that was a genuine boon. Same goes for perks - they shouldn't be plain skill modifiers.

Edited March 21, 2008 by Krezack

[Cycloneman]

Well. Remind me never to gush over a game I really like lest I be forced to offer "proof" of its superiority. Also remind me never to mention when Fallout fell from #1 on my all-time top ten game list, because the very heresy of confessing that I preferred any game to the "genre master."

 

Why on earth are so many folks rallying into a lynch mob because Visc likes Mass Effect better than Fallout? Can't he just say that he loved ME and can't think of any way to improve it without half the forum baring their fangs and going into a blood lust?

I'm not "mobbing" him because he likes Mass Effect more than Fallout. I don't have any ridiculous loyalties to some game I've never played. Indeed, I don't think anyone said they liked Fallout or that that's why they disagreed with him.

 

I'm attacking him because he blatantly contradicted himself, saying on the one hand Mass Effect couldn't be any better and is so great (directly after a question regarding whether or not ME's plot could have been better!), and then saying it has a plot of inferior quality to Planescape: Torment.

(and to be able to have NPCs address him by name, but that could have been covered by just the last name, so I'm guessing the girls matter more).

Well, you could just have him/her be named Casey or Jessie or Gabriel or some other androgynous name, and games where you choose your gender tend to have people change he/she when they're referring to you in the third person. It's more likely just a story function - this game is set in the modern day. Playing a female in Saudi Arabia doesn't sound like a fun time to me.

Bioware couldn't do a better job with Mass Effect's story line however that does not mean that I think it is perfect nor does it exclude that I don't think that someone else, particularly the staff of Obsidian, could have done a better job. PS:T is better than Baldur's Gate, KotOR 2 is better than KotOR 1, NWN2 is better than NWN1, and MotB is better than SoU.

That doesn't answer my question of why you put in a random segway from how Mass Effect couldn't be any better into how Mass Effect is better than Fallout, and, in fact, your #1 game of all time.

[Musopticon?]

I wouldn't bother with Sand, his arguments never follow logic and he's known to both constantly contradict himself and do it consciously as well.

[Sand]

Cy, so I contradict myself. So what? My opinion may change tomorrow, the next week, or even the next hour. Don't like it, deal with it.

[Tigranes]

Yep.

[Sand]

Mr. Tigger, I think this thread has gone a bit off topic. May I suggest a lockdown?

[DuncanOToole]

Well I would say that's partly your fault...

[Musopticon?]

I'd prefer a prune, rather.

[SteveThaiBinh]

On balance, pruning would require removing so much material, including some of the early debate about Mass Effect that is interesting if rather off-topic, I'd rather not do that. So I'll close the thread and invite anyone who wishes to discuss Mass Effect to do so in the Computer and Console forum, and anyone who wishes to discuss character creation and customisation in Alpha Protocol to start a new thread here.