Character Creation and Customization

[Nick_i_am]

Is there really any more difference between the two geners in Mass Effect as there is in any other RPG?

 

I mean, in Fallout, playing a chick meant you could sometimes hump your way out of a problem, but that was about the limit of it.

 

I'm all for gender equality, but that is what most RPGs go for, and there's no real difference between one or the other.

[Xard]

Over 9000 hours in MS Paint

 

Edited March 17, 2008 by Xard

[Nick_i_am]

Dude, Hades isn't a scientologist.

 

Is he?

[Xard]

Well, he thinks God is some malicious prick

 

And isn't Xenu like that?

[Morgoth]

Since I only play male characters I couldn't care less about the lack of a female option.

[mkreku]

Usually it's always the people who absolutely SUCK at FPS's that calls Deus Ex anything but a RPG.

Deus Ex is a shooter.

As I was saying..

[Sand]

Is there really any more difference between the two geners in Mass Effect as there is in any other RPG?

 

I mean, in Fallout, playing a chick meant you could sometimes hump your way out of a problem, but that was about the limit of it.

 

I'm all for gender equality, but that is what most RPGs go for, and there's no real difference between one or the other.

 

I am just for giving the player as much character creation options that is possible. I just don't see how eliminating options makes for a better CRPG, especially when there is proof that giving players full creation control of their character doesn't hamper story quality in the least.

[Nick_i_am]

Because having a female spy do the same things as a male spy would be out of context for the (assumed) semi-realistic international espionarge setting. Chick spys get different training and different mission profiles, so what would be 'character creation!' to you would be 'crappy continuity!' to all the spy buffs out there, or indeed, anyone who cares more about immersion than a pretty butt.

 

This isn't an excuse, but what i'm saying is that the setting in this case is unlike basically any other RPG ever made because the PCs gender actually does matter, on which basis it COULD be said that creating a female character would hamper the story.

 

For example, Indiana Jones being a chick wouldn't actually matter, in terms of plots, nor would Luke Skywalker or Neo, but if James Bond were a chick, key elements of Casino Royal would have had to have been altered.

 

Don't get me wrong though, in an RPG where gender actually matters I would love to be able to play both genders (assuming they were equally catered to). RPGs have little enough replayability as it is, but that's accepting the limits of the devs I guess.

[Sand]

Hmmm... I guess you have a point there, Nickster.

[Tigranes]

in an RPG where gender actually matters I would love to be able to play both genders

 

And I think this is the crux of the matter. If, in the past, in RPGs where we could choose genders, we had seen significant or 'believable' amounts of variety in experience or even cosmetics between male and female protagonists, then I would probably be joining Sand in the cry for genders, at least before nick's latest post.

 

The fact is that I don't see this as a big loss anyway, because adding male/female option hardly ever does anything at all in most RPGs. Either they should really concentrate on making these different races/backgrounds/genders matter, or just stick with one character and flesh him out well.

[SteveThaiBinh]

Hmmm... I guess you have a point there, Nickster.

He does indeed have a point. It was a very good post, Nick.

[Humodour]

If a game plays like a shooter, feels like a shooter, looks like a shooter, then its a shooter. Deus Ex is a shooter. Best damn shooter I have ever played, but still a shooter. Bloodlines was a nice hybrid.

 

Anybody who felt Deus Ex played like a shooter has brain function problems. It has to be one of weirdest shooters I've ever played. On the other hand, it certainly felt, looked and played like a typical (good) RPG.

 

I would rather have a story and dialogue system that is twice as deep and immersive then have an average dialogue system just so they can have both male and females.

 

I rather have a story and dialogue system that is very deep and immersive for both genders than have limited character creation options. The idea that the story and immersion will suffer because both genders are catered to is an antiquated notion that has been squashed by modern CRPGs. Want proof? Play Mass Effect.

 

I haven't heard anything special about Mass Effect. I heard it was a good game with a good story, but that it was too short and limited in many ways.

 

It's a fairly well known concept that the more you limit character choices, the stronger the story you can tell. It is the reason the storyline and plot in computer games isn't as intricate and complex as the better books out there; some story complexity is traded for greater player choice.

 

I think it is self-evident to anybody who played PS:T how pre-determination of gender allows for twice as much backstory, for example.

Edited March 17, 2008 by Krezack

[~Di]

Anybody who felt Deus Ex played like a shooter has brain function problems. It has to be one of weirdest shooters I've ever played.

 

Well, I was going to wade through your last post to me and try again to explain how I personally define the differences between a RPG, and FPS and a hybrid... but your comment above proves that you're not really interested in my views on the subject in lieu of my brain function problems. So I guess we'll just have to disagree.

[Humodour]

Anybody who felt Deus Ex played like a shooter has brain function problems. It has to be one of weirdest shooters I've ever played.

 

Well, I was going to wade through your last post to me and try again to explain how I personally define the differences between a RPG, and FPS and a hybrid... but your comment above proves that you're not really interested in my views on the subject in lieu of my brain function problems. So I guess we'll just have to disagree.

 

I edited it before you posted to clarify my point. It was along the lines of "if you couldn't see how Deus Ex was different from a typical shooter then you've problems". Kinda like somebody saying humans are as dumb as other mammals because they act like other mammals (fight, reproduce and eat); a pretty nonsense argument.

 

This isn't a shouting contest. If I came off as rude, that was unintentional; I'm just slightly passionate about the topic. It shouldn't have any bearing on your own argument, however, and I'm sure the other posters would like to hear you side of things. Ignoring my previous posts, I would still like to see you basic argument for or against what makes an RPG, for example.

Edited March 17, 2008 by Krezack

[Sand]

Well, one of the reasons why I liked it was because it wasn't your usual shooter.

[Spider]

I just don't see how eliminating options makes for a better CRPG, especially when there is proof that giving players full creation control of their character doesn't hamper story quality in the least.

 

Please prove how Mass Effect's story wouldn't have been better if they had limited character choices more.

[sharkz]

Because having a female spy do the same things as a male spy would be out of context for the (assumed) semi-realistic international espionarge setting. Chick spys get different training and different mission profiles, so what would be 'character creation!' to you would be 'crappy continuity!' to all the spy buffs out there, or indeed, anyone who cares more about immersion than a pretty butt.

 

This isn't an excuse, but what i'm saying is that the setting in this case is unlike basically any other RPG ever made because the PCs gender actually does matter, on which basis it COULD be said that creating a female character would hamper the story.

 

For example, Indiana Jones being a chick wouldn't actually matter, in terms of plots, nor would Luke Skywalker or Neo, but if James Bond were a chick, key elements of Casino Royal would have had to have been altered.

 

Don't get me wrong though, in an RPG where gender actually matters I would love to be able to play both genders (assuming they were equally catered to). RPGs have little enough replayability as it is, but that's accepting the limits of the devs I guess.

 

This is pretty much what I was trying to say before but you did it a hell of a lot better.

 

On top of that lets say the game has 24 months for development, I would prefer they put the full 24 months into creating an awesome storyline, character, dialogue then having to split the development time into redoing the exact same scenes but with a second gender instead of fleshing out the one gender they have.

Edited March 18, 2008 by sharkz

[Sand]

I just don't see how eliminating options makes for a better CRPG, especially when there is proof that giving players full creation control of their character doesn't hamper story quality in the least.

 

Please prove how Mass Effect's story wouldn't have been better if they had limited character choices more.

 

I don't see how it can be better. It is the only game in a decade that has removed Fallout from its number 1 position in my top ten list.

[thepixiesrock]

Oh my god I think that's the most ridiculous point you've ever made.

[Humodour]

Oh my god I think that's the most ridiculous point you've ever made.

 

I was going to say that, but then I realised I think that almost every time Visc says something outlandish, and it's not possible that he tops himself each time. I then reconciled this knowledge by accepting my fallibility as a human, and that memories fade, so in fact I am capable of being astounded equally much each time I read said material.

[Xard]

I just don't see how eliminating options makes for a better CRPG, especially when there is proof that giving players full creation control of their character doesn't hamper story quality in the least.

 

Please prove how Mass Effect's story wouldn't have been better if they had limited character choices more.

 

I don't see how it can be better. It is the only game in a decade that has removed Fallout from its number 1 position in my top ten list.

 

Sand, hardcore roleplayer... choosing "consolised stupid POS" over legends like Fallout...

 

Truly wonders of having sex with genderless aliens are unimaginable

 

 

Geez Sand... Next you inform us that you've become christian

Edited March 18, 2008 by Xard

[Nick_i_am]

Hades is a team of sociological scientists testing your reations to stimuli.

 

EDIT: and is it kind of sad that you can tell how long someone has been here by what name they refer to him with?

Edited March 18, 2008 by Nick_i_am

[Tale]

On the other hand, it certainly felt, looked and played like a typical (good) RPG.

You're going to have a very very hard time justifying this statement. Even if one considers Deus Ex an RPG, it is a giant stretch to label it typical.

[Sand]

Sorry for your shock and disbelief, but Mass Effect is a damn good game. It has great voice acting, good amount of action, good replay value, and it is downright fun to play. Bottom line, Mass Effect is more fun to play than Fallout 1 thusly knocks it out of its #1 position.

[Xard]

How come it is more fun to play?

 

Hades is a team of sociological scientists testing your reations to stimuli.

 

EDIT: and is it kind of sad that you can tell how long someone has been here by what name they refer to him with?

 

 

Hey, I was here long before Hades created his eleventhhundred alt Sand!

Edited March 18, 2008 by Xard