The world's 193rd country just emerged

[walkerguy]

Aaack. Yes, let this not enter disscusions of Iraq err... or Irak, whatever have you.

[Kaftan Barlast]

I think that no nation should allow or recognise the forming of a new nation that is too small, or otherwise lacks the resources to be reasonably self-sufficient. Kosovo is a very poor country with around 70% unemployment that completely lacks any ability to sustain a stable economy. Kosovo may have the moral right to declare themselves independant, but they are mad to actually do it, because the consequences will be disastrous.

 

 

I know its a pretty cold way to reason, but its true.

Edited February 28, 2008 by Kaftan Barlast

[Walsingham]

But what we're recognising is not how sensible it is. What we're recognising is the fact that they held a vote and chose their own course.

 

Since we already brought up the subvject of other secessionist regions, I feel it's worth pointing out to 'certain' persons that Northern Ireland repeatedly votes freely to remain part of Great Britain. A fact which may have escaped trendy foreigners.

[eleven]

I think that no nation should allow or recognise the forming of a new nation that is too small, or otherwise lacks the resources to be reasonably self-sufficient. Kosovo is a very poor country with around 70% unemployment that completely lacks any ability to sustain a stable economy. Kosovo may have the moral right to declare themselves independant, but they are mad to actually do it, because the consequences will be disastrous.

 

 

I know its a pretty cold way to reason, but its true.

 

Well, once USA & EU get tired of nursing their neonate, it will probably join Albania along with western half of Macedonia, and possibly part of Montenegro.

[Walsingham]

Stratfor analysis suggests the Russians simply don't care that much. They're focussed on Ukraine and Georgia.

[Walsingham]

Stratfor analysis suggests the Russians simply don't care that much. They're focussed on Ukraine and Georgia.

 

I thank you. Ukraine gas supplies cut by 25%.

[walkerguy]

The same Russia for control and United States for independence.

 

Dmitri Medvedev, the Russian first deputy prime minister and the presumptive successor to President Vladimir Putin, committed the Kremlin on Feb. 25 to long-term support in backing Serbia against an independent Kosovo. Medvedev appeared in Belgrade, the Serbian capital, with Prime Minister Vojislav Kostunica of Serbia. It was his first significant foreign policy appearance since he became the front-runner for Russia's highest office, and he restated Putin's position and made it clear that it would be his own.

 

"We proceed from the understanding that Serbia is a single state with its jurisdiction spanning its entire territory, and we will stick to this principled stance in the future," he said, in remarks reported widely on news broadcasts in Russia.

 

"Serbia," he added, faces "conditions of illegitimate actions to unilaterally recognize Kosovo."

 

The United States reacted quickly to Medvedev's statements and restated its own support for Kosovo. It made clear that, in Washington's view, Kosovo's break from Serbia was final.

 

Kosovo, which had been under United Nations administration since 1999, declared its independence from Serbia on Feb. 17. Russia had long objected to Kosovo's bid for independence and has called the declaration both illegal and a threat to international stability.

For example, he placed blame for the unrest that has followed Kosovo's declaration, and any future repercussions, on the West.

 

"It is absolutely obvious that the crisis that has happened and is the responsibility of those who have made the illegal decision will unfortunately have long-term consequences for peace on the European continent," he said.

 

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/02/25/europe/kosovo.php

 

Russia's worries as mentioned and the Ukraine gas cuts.

 

 

MOSCOW (AFP) - Russian gas giant Gazprom said Friday it would cut its supplies to ex-Soviet neighbour Ukraine by 25 percent from Monday in the latest twist to a long-running dispute over debt payments.

 

The decision was taken after two days of talks between the two countries ended in failure, Gazprom spokesman Sergei Kupriyanov said in a statement.

 

"Considering that the situation has reached a dead end, to guarantee its own economic interests, Gazprom will reduce its gas supplies to Ukrainian consumers by 25 percent on March 3 at 10:00 am (0700 GMT)," Kupriyanov said.

 

The European Commission and Gazprom's European partners, which receive a large part of their supplies though Ukraine's pipelines from Russia, have been informed of the situation, he added.

 

Despite the fact that Ukraine claims to have settled its debts for 2007, disagreements remain over a debt Moscow claims Ukraine accumulated in recent months when Russia used its own gas to make up for a shortfall in less expensive Central Asian gas.

 

Russian natural gas accounts for around a quarter of Ukraine's gas imports, with the rest coming from former Soviet republics in Central Asia via pipelines that go through Russia.

 

Changes to the murky system of intermediaries by which Ukraine pays for gas imported from Russia and Central Asia had been a key demand by Ukrainian Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko.

 

The dispute echoes a price row that led to a brief cut-off of Russian gas to Ukraine in 2006, which in turn led to supply shortages in the European Union.

 

Gazprom has been criticized in the past for cutting supplies to neighbouring countries in pricing disputes that critics say are politically motivated.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080229/bs_af...gy_080229192017

[Walsingham]

A further 25% cut, presumably in light of a lukewarm response by Europe to the first 25%. Bloody useless Brown.

[walkerguy]

Further news on the Kosovo situation from the BBC.

 

Russia has ended Ukraine gas cuts.

[Walsingham]

That was very quick. I had anticipated a long period of Ukraine being cut off. It is spring/summer after all. Most perplexing.

[Aponez]

We have other 2 new countries, but these new countries want their independence from an US ally in a "hot zone". Do you want bet US will not recognize their independence?

 

Abjazia and South Osetia asked almost 1 week ago to US, and the UE to recognize their independence from Georgia as they did with Kosovo

[Walsingham]

South Ossetia is hardly a new issue. Besides, isn't it on the 'wrong' end of the country? i.e. far away from other US allies.

 

I'm quite sad that thanks to Putin's determinedly plugging away we are now at loggerheads with the Russians when we might be working together.

[Aponez]

Russia was clever with this, they didn't recognize South Osetia neither Abjazia, then no one can say that her acts with Kosovo are hipochresy, but if US and the UE don't recognize S. Osetia and Abjazia, will be hipochresy

[Walsingham]

Not really. I'd have thought that Kosovo has special cause to want to secede given Serbian warlike behaviour.

[Aponez]

Not really. I'd have thought that Kosovo has special cause to want to secede given Serbian warlike behaviour.

 

 

The "behaviour" of the Serbs in Kosovo wasn't worst than the "behaviour" of the Georgian army in the wars in Osetia and Abjazia, and if is for the "behaviour" remember that now in La Haya the International Court has a trial against a Croatian general for the murder of Serbian civilians when they retake Krajina

[Walsingham]

Not really. I'd have thought that Kosovo has special cause to want to secede given Serbian warlike behaviour.

 

 

The "behaviour" of the Serbs in Kosovo wasn't worst than the "behaviour" of the Georgian army in the wars in Osetia and Abjazia, and if is for the "behaviour" remember that now in La Haya the International Court has a trial against a Croatian general for the murder of Serbian civilians when they retake Krajina

[Aponez]

I know Walsingham, but even if the media talks about it sometimes doesn't happen anything the RUC wasn't better than the Serbian police with the IRA and noone give the independence to North Ireland, remember the UK had to send their "Paras" to North Ireland to fight the IRA, just like the Serbians with his army to fight the UCK

 

 

[Walsingham]

True. But isn't that how diplomacy works? You can't expect peopel who aren't your friends to stick up for you.

[Aponez]

Canada joins the "Hipochresy Club", recognizes Kosovo but denies the same chance to Quebec

 

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=384325

 

Canada recognizes independent Kosovo

 

Case has no bearing on Quebec, says Bernier

 

Matthew Jay, Canwest News Service Published: Wednesday, March 19, 2008

 

OTTAWA - Canada has officially recognized Kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence, despite fears the move could encourage sovereigntists in Quebec.

 

Foreign Affairs Minister Maxime Bernier said Tuesday that Canada would "join the international community" in recognizing the sovereign independence of the Balkan republic, citing Canada's commitment under NATO and the UN to protect Kosovo.

 

"It's why today, in this context, that Canada acknowledges the new international reality and will recognize Kosovo as an independent state," he said.

 

In response, the Serbian ambassador in Ottawa, Dusan Batakovic, has been temporarily recalled to Belgrade.

 

According to Mr. Bernier, Canada wanted to ensure it fully understood the situation before making any announcement about the status of Kosovo.

 

"It was important for us, in the beginning, to assess the situation on the ground," he said. "It's an important decision for a country, when you have to recognize another country. We took our time and now we're ready to do it."

 

As for the withdrawal of the Serbian ambassador, Mr. Bernier said the move was not unexpected.

 

"We're not surprised about that. It's their [serbia's] decision." he said.

 

The foreign affairs minister referred to Kosovo as a unique case, because of the past conflict with its neighbours. He denied it had any similarity to a claim for Quebec sovereignty.

 

"It's a unique case and as a declaration issued by Kosovo's parliament also makes clear, and this is what's important for us, the unique circumstances which have led to Kosovo's independence mean it does not constitute any kind of precedent," he said.

 

Canada had previously remained on the fence over the issue, mainly due to sensitivity over the historical standoff with Quebec separatists and a rising concern in Ottawa that a declaration had provoked the beginnings of a major East-West split.

 

The Parti Quebecois seized on the federal government's decision, seeing a parallel with its own goal of making Quebec a country independent of Canada.

 

"We are happy because in recognizing the political independence of Kosovo, Canada is recognizing the entry, legally and democratically, of this new independent state into the international community," Daniel Turp, the party's international relations critic, said in a statement.

 

PQ leader Pauline Marois was not available to reporters, but Francois Gendron, the party's house leader in the National Assembly, said Kosovo could be an example for Quebec.

 

"I say bravo, sincerely," Mr. Gendron said commenting on Canada's decision to recognize the breakaway Serbian province.

 

Kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence is an illustration of "the liberty of people to assume what I want for Quebec," he added.

 

Nations have an "innate, fundamental" right to self-determination Mr. Gendron added, and Canada has recognized Quebec as a nation but "without meaning anything."

 

The Serbian ambassador expressed his disappointment with the Canadian decision Tuesday.

 

"This is a precedent set in a very dangerous way. We are very unhappy because we consider Canada a friendly country, with 200,000 Serb-Canadians living here and giving a great contribution to our bilateral relations," said Mr. Batakovic.

 

Mr. Batakovic disagreed with Mr. Bernier on the similarities between Kosovo and Quebec, however. The ambassador pointed to the Clarity Act and the defined conditions under which a province could secede from Canada.

 

"The Canadian Clarity Act, which defines how Quebec can become independent, has its counterpart documents in both Serbian and international law," Mr. Batakovic said.

 

"The clarity act for Kosovo is the Serbian constitution and UN Security Council Resolution 1244 which defines Kosovo solely as an integral part of Serbia with the right to enhanced autonomy and nothing more."

 

The ambassador said Canada would regret its decision. He denied Serbia would retaliate diplomatically, but acknowledged that a significant breakdown relations would likely occur.

 

"We are a democratic country and we will not use retaliation," Mr. Batakovic said. "It is sad that the growing economic exchange between Canada and Serbia might slow down and that many very useful bilateral initiatives will suffer."

 

Kosovo's ethnic Albanian-dominated parliament unilaterally declared independence from Serbia on Feb. 17. Since then, about 30 countries have recognized its independence.

 

In a move similar to Canada's, Hungary could recognize Kosovo's independence today after a weekly cabinet meeting, a Foreign Ministry spokesman said in Budapest.

 

The spokesman told AFP an official decision will be announced after today's meeting when asked about Croatian press reports about a recognition.

 

A western diplomat in Budapest, who asked not to be named, told AFP he "had similar information" about Hungary's recognition of Kosovo.

 

Croatian dailies reported Tuesday that Bulgaria, Croatia and Hungary could recognize Kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence today.

 

Bulgarian Prime Minister Sergey Stanishev told a radio station, however, that "Bulgaria will certainly not recognize Kosovo on Wednesday," as the next government meeting is not until Thursday.

 

Istvan Pasztor, president of the main Hungarian association in Vojvodina, an autonomous Serbian province neighbouring Hungary, warned that recognizing Kosovo could endanger Vojvodina's ethnic Hungarian minority of some 350,000 people.

 

"We're afraid that Serb nationalists will target Hungarian minorities in Vojvodina after Budapest recognizes Kosovo on Wednesday," he told Hungarian news agency MTI.

 

When events first began to unfold in Kosovo, the Canadian Foreign Affairs Department issued a statement saying it was "assessing the situation" while, at the United Nations, Canada monitored a crisis meeting of the Security Council on the subject.

 

The UN has run Kosovo since a NATO bombing campaign -- in which Canada participated -- forced Serbia to withdraw its forces from the region almost a decade ago. NATO acted to end a brutal crackdown ordered by then-Serb leader Slobodan Milosevic on the ethnic-Albanian majority in Kosovo.

 

Serbs consider Kosovo an important part of their cultural and religious heritage, but the ethnic-Albanian community rebuffed UN efforts to broker a deal whereby the Serb province would have been granted "supervised" independence

[Xard]

Why the **** should Quebec want independence? Because they are smelly frenchies?

[walkerguy]

No.

[Aponez]

Why the **** should Quebec want independence? Because they are smelly frenchies?

 

Nop, only because they dont like live with smelly english xD

[walkerguy]

Smelly english? Smelly spanairds!

[Nick_i_am]

Actually, the spanish smell quite nice.

[walkerguy]

Smelly frenchies?