Al Qaeda reduced to strapping bombs to Downs syndrome women

[Walsingham]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,2251283,00.html

 

I always feel sorry for the poor saps duped and brainwashed into becoming suicide bombs, but this takes the biscuit. If any of you have worked with Down's syndrome people you'll know how wonderfully trusting and free of hate they are. Interesting that Al Zawahiri said before Christmas that the West was beaten in Iraq. Clearly there are so many fine upstanding heroic male jihadis willing to become martyrs that they instead send people with Down's syndrome as suicide bombers.

 

EDIT: There seems to be some confusion as to how the authorities know they had Downs. I can't be sure in this specific case, but it is very common that suicide bomber's heads remain intact if they detonate a backpack or vest. Don't ask me to explain the physics. Blast wave propagation is barmy. Anyway, although the outward signs of Downs do not always occur in Downs persons they are often present.

[Blarghagh]

That's sick. What's next? "Sonny boy, you go in there and push that button or you won't get any dinner tonight!"

[Humodour]

Sick ****ers.

 

I wonder how long it'll take to see an end to things like this? Will I see it before I turn 70? That'd be 2060.

 

Who knows I guess... so many things will have run out before then - coal, oil, gas, zinc, etc. And so many other things will have changed.

 

Perhaps China will even give it's citizens human rights one day?

[Walsingham]

Well, like I say it's always sad, because often they are taking kids of fourteen-eighteen and isolating them, indoctrinating them, and then turning them loose. It's just that using people with Downs is particularly symptomatic of their totally blinkered view of what constitutes 'right'. And that's before you think about the victims.

[Tigranes]

While I fully agree with the general sentiment....

 

He did not elaborate on how the Iraqi military knew about their mental condition.

 

....surely this comment should, at least, raise the cynic's eyebrow.

[Sand]

If it is true, then it is sick. If not, it is sick of the Iraqi military to use such a propaganda tactic. Either way, it is sick. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Al Qaeda would do this sort of crap however being the cowards they are. An autopsy on the remains would probably reveal the condition, with the head popping off like a dandelion, though the chest and abdomen would be vaporized with burnt remains of the lower legs.

[Blarghagh]

If it is true, then it is sick. If not, it is sick of the Iraqi military to use such a propaganda tactic.

 

I think the point you are trying to make is, "the very idea is sick no matter the situation".

[Arkan]

Sick ****ers.

 

I wonder how long it'll take to see an end to things like this? Will I see it before I turn 70? That'd be 2060.

 

Who knows I guess... so many things will have run out before then - coal, oil, gas, zinc, etc. And so many other things will have changed.

 

Perhaps China will even give it's citizens human rights one day?

 

 

We have enough coal for hundreds of years.

[Brdavs]

Indeed barbaric...

 

But sorta like that place, what is it again... oh texas, what, 4-5 years ago, zapping retarded ppl on the chair lol.

 

 

Good to know world is so black and white eh? Bomb the evil devils with depleated uranium instead of helping them get a life worth living. Only hypothetical problem I see is that thats giving them more ammo in form of physicaly and mentaly challenged offsping... but meh thats several administrations away

 

Funny how the superrior west is so scared poopless of "dirty bombs" that we drop thousands of tons of the very poop we`re scared of heh... And funny how China gets flak for HR, even here, while we`re giving them away willingly in the name of "security" etc. + enthusiastically waving our union jacks/stars`n`stripes at the same time... Not to mention how funny it is to note the trend of "healthy patriotism", and, of course, the multiplied value of a western citizens life compared to just about anyone elsess that goes hand in hand with it... Funny how NATO generals feel that "the west must be ready to resort to a pre-emptive nuclear attack to to try to halt the "imminent" spread of nuclear and other weapons of mass destruction" etc...

Man, if these were the early 1900s I`d be freakin worried about our little planet heh... Its like "doing it like they do on the discovery chanell" for virginiy lol

Lots of funny things when you think about it actually ;P

Edited February 2, 2008 by Brdavs

[Humodour]

Arkan: We = America? I know Australia has reserves of super-clean, (low sulphur and other pollutants) high-yield coal to last a couple of hundred years even at the current rate of exportation of 75% of production.

 

And funny how China gets flak for HR, even here, while we`re giving them away willingly in the name of "security" etc.

 

You find it funny, do you? You think China doesn't deserve the 'flak' it is getting? Poor old China with its unsustainable population and economy.

 

- Maybe we should cut it some slack because it didn't mean to kill those 300 university students who were protesting for democracy.

- Maybe it doesn't mean to lock up and torture/kill anybody who suggests a better life is possible.

- Maybe it doesn't mean to rape the people of Tibet because religion, culture and tradition threaten the rule of the dictatorship.

- Maybe it didn't mean to invade Tibet in the first place.

- Maybe it doesn't mean to keep Taiwan from moving for independence by threatening with war every few months.

- Maybe it doesn't mean to rewrite its history books to hide human rights abuses; maybe it doesn't mean to censor religion, freedom, rights, culture, etc from the internet and other media - and maybe it doesn't mean to arrest people who bypass the censor.

- Maybe it doesn't mean to try and exterminate Falun Gong simply because it practices spirituality and individual freedom.

- And hell... maybe it doesn't mean to use political prisoners as involuntary internal organ donors?

Edited February 3, 2008 by Krezack

[Colrom]

It may be at least partly true. I think the suicide bombers were identified - worked at the market and were known - and known to be mentally defective in some way - although it is not clear that they had a clear diagnosis.

 

I do wonder if the diagnosis of Downs Syndrom is a propaganda bit. The specificity of the characterization raises my eyebrows. The story just says that some people called one of the bombers a "crazy lady".

 

Of course translation is always an opportunity for mistakes.

 

Over all though, the idea that a military or other terrorist group would use psychologically or mentally challenged people - while disgusting - is not at all out of the ordinary.

 

The US has reduced education and intelligence standards for recruitment of foot soldiers quite a bit over the last few years. Standards have also been greatly reduced regarding accepting recruits with criminal records.

 

Alot of these soldiers are not so savvy.

 

But then we don't have them blow themselves up.

 

I do think that we could use better methods for remote detonation of IEDs - but my iderstanding is we don't because they conflict with our CCC systems (so it is cheaper to use soldiers to find them?).

 

Debates about the fine points of the morality of murders and murderers are bizarro - although maybe sorta valid - but they cause me to feel very sad.

[Hell Kitty]

While I fully agree with the general sentiment....

 

He did not elaborate on how the Iraqi military knew about their mental condition.

 

....surely this comment should, at least, raise the cynic's eyebrow.

 

Consider my eyebrow raised.

 

I also don't feel any more sorry for this or any other bomber, but then I never bought into the condescending stereotype of folks with downs as being a bunch of angels.

[Gorgon]

The chief Iraqi military spokesman in Baghdad, Brigadier General Qassim al-Moussawi, claimed the female bombers had Down's syndrome and that the explosives were detonated by remote control, indicating they may not have been willing attackers in what could be a new method by suspected Sunni insurgents to subvert stepped-up security measures.

 

Remote control sounds somewhat unlikely, without having any great understanding of preferred tactics, the deal usually is that the suicide bomber navigates to a crowded area and detonates himself. Radio controlled devices could achieve the same without a human carrier, in a car or a bag.

[Walsingham]

The chief Iraqi military spokesman in Baghdad, Brigadier General Qassim al-Moussawi, claimed the female bombers had Down's syndrome and that the explosives were detonated by remote control, indicating they may not have been willing attackers in what could be a new method by suspected Sunni insurgents to subvert stepped-up security measures.

 

Remote control sounds somewhat unlikely, without having any great understanding of preferred tactics, the deal usually is that the suicide bomber navigates to a crowded area and detonates himself. Radio controlled devices could achieve the same without a human carrier, in a car or a bag.

 

I can't blame youf or being suspicious, but duping/forcing innocent third parties to carry bombs taht are remote detonated is a very old tactic. The IRA used these so-called "proxy bombs" in the 1990s.

 

Extract from the book "Armed Struggle: The History of the IRA"

 

An IRA technique used in the early 1990s was the "proxy bomb", a type of involuntary suicide bomb where a victim was kidnapped and forced to drive a car bomb to its target. In one operation in Derry in October 1990, the Provisional IRA chained a Catholic civilian to a car laden with explosives, held his family hostage and forced him to drive to an Army checkpoint where the bomb exploded, killing himself and five soldiers. Another "human bomb" killed one soldier the same day, but the driver saved his own life by jumping from the moving car. This practice was stopped due to the revulsion it caused among the nationalist community.

 

Personally I have long suspected that individuals are being used as proxies rather than true suicide bombers in Iraq, due to the frequency with which operations get botched or the drivers of vehicles bail out on running into patrols. I reckon the offer made is along the lines of "Congratulations! You've won the option of beinga martyr and your family getting paid 5k USD! Failure to accept means we shoot all of you." Not much of a choice.

 

EDIT: I got the above quote from wiki, but I have read the book, along with Peter Taylor's excellent "Provos".

[Walsingham]

Lest I appear completely one-sided:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7225613.stm

 

Looks like Coalition forces hit a building in error, killing regular people not terrorists. 20 dead.

 

Of course this doesn't change my 'side'. It's a ghastly eror and if there's any way to prevent it happening again it's got to be done. But at least the Coalition can say it is indeed an error when they kill civilians rather than it being the whole point of coalition operations. This, in teh view of the jurist Abou Khaled Al-Fadl is a distinction embraced within the Quran and in its analyses:

 

"The classical jurists, nearly without exception, argued that those who attack by stealth, while targeting noncombatants in order to terrorize the resident and wayfarer, are corrupters of the earth. "Resident and wayfarer" was a legal expression that meant that whether the attackers terrorize people in their urban centers or terrorize travelers, the result was the same: all such attacks constitute a corruption of the earth. The legal term given to people who act this way was muharibun (those who wage war against society), and the crime is called the crime of hiraba (waging war against society). The crime of hiraba was so serious and repugnant that, according to Islamic law, those guilty of this crime were considered enemies of humankind and were not to be given quarter or sanctuary anywhere. ... Those who are familiar with the classical tradition will find the parallels between what were described as crimes of hiraba and what is often called terrorism today nothing short of remarkable. The classical jurists considered crimes such as assassinations, setting fires, or poisoning water wells - that could indiscriminately kill the innocent - as offenses of hiraba. Furthermore, hijacking methods of transportation or crucifying people in order to spread fear and terror are also crimes of hiraba. Importantly, Islamic law strictly prohibited the taking of hostages, the mutilation of corpses, and torture."