Thoughts on Mandatory Combat

[Lord Tingeling]

Can you buld it? yes; but youc an't role-play it. you lose.

(C'mon, LT. Deep breaths. *Deep breaths*)

 

 

I did not ask you if you could RP it, Volo.

 

Now, since you can build that pacifist char, can you play it fully (i.e, avoiding combat)?

[Volourn]

Make a list fo questions and I'll answer 'em all that ocne. no need for us to spam back and forth. Saves the others the ehadache for us amusing them so.

[Lord Tingeling]

How about sparing *ME* the headache and answering the question, then? If I'm not wrong, this is more relevant to the topic at hand than the ongoing discussion about KoTOR's feats...

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Can you buld it? yes; but youc an't role-play it. you lose.

(C'mon, LT. Deep breaths. *Deep breaths*)

 

 

I did not ask you if you could RP it, Volo.

 

Now, since you can build that pacifist char, can you play it fully (i.e, avoiding combat)?

You have your definitions crossed. Thats not a pacifist thats a coward.

[Lord Tingeling]

Can you buld it? yes; but youc an't role-play it. you lose.

(C'mon, LT. Deep breaths. *Deep breaths*)

 

 

I did not ask you if you could RP it, Volo.

 

Now, since you can build that pacifist char, can you play it fully (i.e, avoiding combat)?

You have your definitions crossed. Thats not a pacifist thats a coward.

It's all in the eye of the beholder, Pally.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Shadow: Those feats in NWN (or TOEE for that matter) are there more than how good they look. They are also useful and can make the game a lot more manageable. That enemy that does 20 damage a hit is not as dangerous if he's always on the ground...

Yes but KOTOR was more than managable anyway so they would have just been fluff in KOTOR. Like most of the options in TOEE were because the AI was too stupid to either use or counter them..

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

It's all in the eye of the beholder, Pally.

Most things are :D

 

However the point of being a pacifist is to avoid taking lives and encourage others to do likewise through non violent means.Not simply avoiding combat and or taking life directly. So while you can make a character who seeks to avoid combat it cant be a pacifist in either of the FO games or most other games.

 

So renaming it the "coward build" is closer to the truth.

[Lord Tingeling]

Let me clarify: I have never claimed you could RP a pacifist in FO, or that Fallout series offered great non-combat alternatives. My point is, however, that Fallout1 *does* offer a "pacifist" (read: non-combat) alternative to the standard hack'n slay path through the game.

 

You can build a "pacifist build", and you can play it to it's fullest. (Never entering combat through the whole game). That's it. Period. (oh gawd, oh gawd, oh gawd. Volournian parasites have started to infect my brain, it seems)

 

PS: There is no truth, there is only Spam. My Spam.

[AlanC9]

Actually I'd go one further and say because the AC's in KOTOR are so low and the BaB's are so high there is very little point in ever not using flurry or the blaster equivelent.

Power Attack's even better in most circumstances. But yeah, there's no reason to ever use a standard attack once you've maxed your feat of choice.

 

Incidentally, Malak uses melee feats, but typically the wrong ones. He like to use the crit feat, but most players are sensible enough to get a crit-immunity item, so all Malak ends up doing is hurting his own AC.

 

As for that whole "pacifist" thing, what's the point? Does anybody seriously think that kind of play's got any chance of making it into KotOR 2? Better skill use is a reasonable request, but no combat at all? No chance.

[AlanC9]

You can build a "pacifist build", and you can play it to it's fullest. (Never entering combat through the whole game). That's it. Period.

But can you "play a build to its fullest" if you can't RP it? Depends on your definition of playing an RPG.

 

I wouldn't know. I'm not interested in builds that require foreknowledge to play. Anyone ever do FO as a pacifist the first time through?

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Let me clarify: I have never claimed you could RP a pacifist in FO, or that Fallout series offered great non-combat alternatives. My point is, however, that Fallout1 *does* offer a "pacifist" (read: non-combat) alternative to the standard hack'n slay path through the game.

 

You can build a "pacifist build", and you can play it to it's fullest. (Never entering combat through the whole game). That's it. Period. (oh gawd, oh gawd, oh gawd. Volournian parasites have started to infect my brain, it seems)

 

PS: There is no truth, there is only Spam. My Spam.

Well replace pacifist with coward and its correct.

 

However that was never going to be an option in KOTOR because your primary foe hates your guts and wants you dead. And his "army" is comprised of zealots and robots which really dont care about anything outside of their programming.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Power Attack's even better in most circumstances. But yeah, there's no reason to ever use a standard attack once you've maxed your feat of choice.

 

Incidentally, Malak uses melee feats, but typically the wrong ones. He like to use the crit feat, but most players are sensible enough to get a crit-immunity item, so all Malak ends up doing is hurting his own AC.

 

As for that whole "pacifist" thing, what's the point? Does anybody seriously think that kind of play's got any chance of making it into KotOR 2? Better skill use is a reasonable request, but no combat at all? No chance.

Never found a use for it. It's the one that addes +5 to damage isnt it ? There was another one which had a chance of stun which worked rather well for my smuggler except on certain things.

 

Nothing wrong with that. Malak shouldnt know what the player has equiped in advance. As long as the AI dosnt simply settle into a pattern of fail - fail - fail -repeat. Then having it make mistakes is quite a realistic thing to do.

 

Its like when you play FF. You know that most bosses are immune to the heavy hitter stuff like demi and death but there are still one or two who are not, so its always worth a try. Its always worth a chuckle when a 33,333 level 25 boss goes down to level 5 death

 

I agree dosnt fit the setting in the slightest. You need a very "grey" world to make chatting your way through to the end a viable option.

[Berserk]

I've never really understood the fascination of the search for the fabled "pacifist build" for FO and other RPG:s. Would it really add that much to the gameplay value? I'm all for a challenging game and different playing experiences but I just feel that the amount of zots spend on making a completely nonviolent path in a game could be spent on coming up with a more advanced combat engine that allows for different combat strategies such as allowing non-lethal takedowns and allowing true usage of cover.

 

This doesn't mean that I'm against the opportunity to speak/lie/convince your way out of trouble but there are situations that one simply should not be able to speak yourself out of.....

[Atreides]

I killed a rat in FO1 so does that mean I'm not a pacifist?

[The Situationist]

^MURDERER!

 

You can't be a pacifist in Fallout. You can be someone that doesn't physically attack anyone and runs away from combat.

[tripleRRR]

Fallout. The games that never die.

 

 

TripleRRR

[Darque]

Definately an indicator of their appeal and staying power... Thanks Herve for destroying one of the best series ever made..

 

Anyone else want to do Herve up like a pinata?

[Volourn]

Sojiro, of course you miss the pin that my post where I state that you can't be a apcifist in FO had nothing to do with you and was in reply to Visercis' then you disagreed with that statement of mine. Don't blame me if your head hurt sover it. Heh.

 

Anyways, Fo rules. deal with it. Period.

[Darque]

I still think hanging Caen from a rafter and whacking him with sticks is a winner of an idea

 

Oh, no, not bitter, no-sir-ee

[Volourn]

I EXTREMELY hate extremism.

[Drakron]

Shadow, as Drakron pointed out, the reason why KOTOR;'s combat is much more simple than NWN's has nothing to do with not being D&D. D20 which KOTOR uses (to a degree) has lots of incldued combinations.

 

Of course Drakron exaggerates and lies at that. It had nothing to do with laziness and lies; but the fact is the combat rules wasn't BIO's main concern when it comes to KOTOR. For a guy who hates BIo so much he sure scoops up their games very quickly so it only entails me to believe he lies when he states how much he hates them. 

 

 

No, I was looking foward to SWkotOR because I seen NwN as a lesson that BioWare had learn and see NwN failures as of a unfortunate set of circustances (Interplay deal going down and Atari setting a deadline).

 

Of course I was not really following SWKotOR until around the Xbox release were I started to have doubts.

 

SWKotOR is a good game, just not a good RPG due to mechanics and interface problems.

 

Of course if you pick up a Star Wars d20 manual you dont see stuff that BioWare made up, stuff like +5 blasters dont exist but customized blasters that have a +1 to hit do, other is the "gear head" feat family that does not exist, only a feat called gear head.

 

Anyone with the Star Wars d20 books can see that BioWare copy and pasted a lot from there but did not adapted to their rule changes, for example holdout blasters deal less damage but are easier to conceal so why on Earth they are present in SWKotOR with the damage penalty as there is no rules to hide weapons on their system.

 

I dont hate BioWare but lately their attitude towards players is very diferent from back in BIS forums, heck I beta for Dave improved fights but that does not mean I sould have a problem in saying to him that Derkin gets old REAL FAST to me.

 

They are not gods, heck Sawyer taken a lot of crap from me because I wanted demihuman deities choices in IWD2 after they were done, he taken it rather well.

 

Do I exaggerate and lie when I say BioWare rush down the game when there were game ending issues in the Xbox version of SWKotOR ... have they patched it for Xbox users yet?

 

They can you know ... using XBox live.

 

BioWare QA is bad and LucasArts QA is as equal bad but unfortunatly we live on a time were game publishers release a game with well known issues just to patch it less that a week after release.

 

I already stated I will not buy Jade Empire, yes I would love to see a RPG set in ancient China or Japan but Jade Empire will simply not do for that in my taste.

[AlanC9]

Its always worth a chuckle when a 33,333 level 25 boss goes down to level 5 death

I've heard of people beating the HotU endboss that way. Apparently he's not immune to death attacks, so Finger of Death has a 5% chance of killing him.

 

Yeah, it's OK for Malak to have a crit fail on you, once. But he really should be checking his damage rolls.

 

Power Attack goes up to +10 at master level. Someone crunched the numbers and the combat feats are pretty well balanced. Flurry's the least damaging by a small margin, but makes up for that by having the smallest downside. Nice work by WotC

[Volourn]

Drakron, I never said theyw ere gods. inf act, I've "debated' with BIO employess more than once in the past. They're not perfect. Not even close. But to say they have some bad QA is a lie which is easily pointed out comparing them to other comapnies which get way more flack for even worst problems. And, they treat the customers properly most of the time (as always, there are exemptions). If they didn't; they wouldn't have so many. Derkin? Do you mean deekin? Heck, I'm on record stating quite clearly I hate two of BIo's most popualr characters in both Deekin and Minsc. Useless characters, imo.

 

You can deny you hate BIO all youw ant; but your posts suggsests otherwise. It be like me saying I hate them. It just wouldn't ring true. Period.

 

P.S. I don't know if you own and x-box or not; but if you do, it's pretty much a guarantee you'll by Jade Empire so stop pulling a Visceris.

[Drakron]

No, but they lately have the "we know best" attitude on their replies that really piss me off.

 

And sorry but BioWare QA is bad, console games sould NEVER ship with game ending script problems and fact remains SWKotOR had, not to say that latest patch messed around things it sould not.

 

And no, I dont own a Xbox and so its highly unlikely that I would play Jade Empire.

[Darque]

I wonder why some people try to pull the "you're going to buy Jade Empire n00b" defense

 

:D *runs*