Most definitely. If you take NWN's combat for example, and add five fully controllable NPCs, you'd essentially have IE combat which, while not in any way perfect, is still a lot better than controlling just one character. There simply isn't enough to do during combat when you're controlling a very small DnD party.

 

Regarding 3D graphics in RPGs, the problem is that they are essentially eye candy that adds literally nothing to gameplay. The problem is you are playing a 2D game in a 3D engine and that brings lots of problems to the core gameplay, most notably the dreaded camera problems. All 3D RPGs done by Obsidian and Bioware, with the exception of JE, are, in terms of combat, essentially the same games as the IE games, except with fewer things to do and less challenge. In fact combat depth in RPGs has been moving backwards ever since IWD2.

 

Not that I'm against 3D. It's just that if a game is going to use 3D, it better justify its use with gameplay.

 

 

Edit: I guess party based CRPGs should step away from their pen and paper roots and start being developed specifically with 3D gameplay in mind. I think an RPG done with a Silent Storm style engine is in order. Using a rule system that accommodates things such as height, concealment, and deformable and destructible terrain.

then you would be staring at the action from miles away, not suitable for aliens i'd say.

Oh, yes. I think Alien should have first person perspective, which is to say I think it should be an RPG different from previous Obsidian work, at least as far as the combat goes.

First person RPG?

 

Sounds hard to realise... but it would be pretty damn awesome. Plus it's easier to add the fear factor in first person.

First person RPG?

 

Sounds hard to realise... but it would be pretty damn awesome. Plus it's easier to add the fear factor in first person.

 

You've never played System Shock 2, Deus Ex 1, VtM: Bloodlines, etc, I imagine?

Since the game is primarily designed for next gen consoles, I can't really imagine how FPS could work well.

 

Unlike the enemies in Halo or Call of Duty, Aliens are fast moving enemies which I'm not sure console gamers could keep up with it. An example would be the Alien Resurrection game for the playstation. Sure it captures the scary atmosphere but its also frustrating simply for the fact that it has awkward controls especially against fast moving enemies.

 

At least in third person, we could use the stats to affect how well the character's auto aim does against fast moving enemies. Just imho.

I prefer a party of 4 over 3, but with the option to go to five if needed. Also the option to have less or go solo would be nice.

 

Krezy, Deus Ex1 was a shooter and Bloodlines had a toggle.

I prefer a party of 4 over 3, but with the option to go to five if needed. Also the option to have less or go solo would be nice.

 

Krezy, Deus Ex1 was a shooter and Bloodlines had a toggle.

 

I'm pretty sure we discussed this on the IPLY forums, Vis, where most people agreed that Deus Ex 1 was an RPG. You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but for reference, Will, Deus Ex is an RPG and it pulled it off superbly.

 

And Bloodlines didn't have an RPG ON/OFF toggle. You could certainly play gun combat in 3rd person if you wanted, but it was fairly awkward. Playing in 1st person didn't not make it an RPG. But let's not make this another "What constitutes an RPG?" thread, please.

 

Re party limit: Well thing is, if they have a cap of 5 but the game is designed for, say, 3, then most people will take 5 anyway because the game doesn't stop them - regardless of if they need them or it makes combat more fun (probably wouldn't since it'd be more of a pushover). I'm divided on the issue.

Edited January 6, 200818 yr by Krezack

Deus Ex was a shooter with a reason to shoot, I guess you could call that an RPG.

If they designed the game to be tough for a party of four people who want a slightly easier time could take 5 and those who want a greater challenge can take 3. Also this gives leeway for those who make less than optimal builds.

Edited January 6, 200818 yr by Sand

It's not as much the number of people in your party that is key to Pidesco's excellent argument, I think. It's just one of the big symptoms.

 

He's very right that in the Bio/Obsid tradition RPGs (and some others), combat at its core has remained the same as the 2D era, but has had to become more small-scale, simpler, and harder to control. The high-end graphics means that in games like KOTOR, you are hardly ever attacked by more than five enemies, and your party isn't too large, either. Combine this with the close-up cameras 3D games now seem to prefer to show off their graphics, and it is absolutely impossible to have ANY sense of formation (especially since whereas 2D models had a 'solidity' to them 3D models often clip and merge, and people can sort of 'ooze' past your tanks to your mages/meds), or execute complicated maneuvres and movements. Add in silly compensatory measures like uncontrollable companions (I mean, it's not like AI is any good, even now) and the loss of permanent death rules hasn't helped at all. When I played the KOTOR series, I liked them, but all the while I felt like some sort of kid bouncing along in a bubble fighting people with toy sticks. People whose family you held as hostage, you bastard, because they'll just cripple themselves and present you with no real difficulty.

 

Even if Aliens had only one character you could control, or even, one character in your entire party, I think it could make some excellent headways in this issue. Firstly, a proper and well thought out cover mechanics (possibly with some movable/destructible objects). Secondly, fixing the 'healing' issue - we've got a separate thread for this, so I'll just say, I mean, getting rid of characters wakling around with 50 instant Heal medpacks. Thirdly, the incorporation of actual fear of your enemy, which makes things like stealth, and even running away from battle, not a 'fun' option but, sometimes, a necessity. One notes that all these things would be possible in a first person perspective, or an isometric one, or a KOTOR one (but if that happens somebody should die in a fire). I think Aliens should probably go first person or over the shoulder to maximise the immersion/fear effect, and this will obviously mean going alone or with a very small number of (probably) uncontrollable companions, but the three points I made could still be enacted. I don't think party size is the be all and end all here, it's about working the combat and perspective around each other, as Pidesco said.

Curveball: we're discussing party members as if this is going to be a Marquis of Queensbury rules dustup like in Baldur's Gate or something. These are ALIENS. Meaning, for my money, no 'tanks'. Tanks, maybe, but no 'tanks'.

Curveball: we're discussing party members as if this is going to be a Marquis of Queensbury rules dustup like in Baldur's Gate or something.

 

Indeed. What then? Personally I think it should be FPS solo, but given the way Sawyer has spoken and his interest in posts about NPC dialogue, I'm willing to bet a lot of money this game will be 3rd person over the shoulder with NPCs (controllability optional).

 

So what type of game do you see it being? A stealther? I do imagine Stealth while be important. I also believe they'll implement it properly, unlike in BG, KOTOR, etc. That's my hope, at least.

I don't think a party based RPG would work well as a scary game. The only way I can imagine that working would be in a way similar to The Thing, where your party members were untrustworthy. I guess that could be done through Weyland Yutani affiliated NPCs. Betrayal could even be worked into a romance plot. Or NPC distrust even. Bedding a person affiliated with W-Y could create unrest in the party, and even lead to fighting within the group. Mutiny On The Nostromo!

That's what I mean Wals. For Aliens, I rather envision controlling only one person, with one or two AI helpers max at any situation.

I don't think a party based RPG would work well as a scary game. The only way I can imagine that working would be in a way similar to The Thing, where your party members were untrustworthy. I guess that could be done through Weyland Yutani affiliated NPCs. Betrayal could even be worked into a romance plot. Or NPC distrust even. Bedding a person affiliated with W-Y could create unrest in the party, and even lead to fighting within the group. Mutiny On The Nostromo!

What, no love for NPCs that could be housing a deadly alien in their chest?

How would the rest of the party not know that the NPC is incubated? Facehuggers are kind of noticeable.

How would the rest of the party not know that the NPC is incubated? Facehuggers are kind of noticeable.

 

Weyland-Yutani genetic experiment?

How would the rest of the party not know that the NPC is incubated? Facehuggers are kind of noticeable.

It happened before he joined?

 

Everyone in the group got knocked out, but when you all awoke a dead facehugger was found nearby?

Edited January 8, 200818 yr by Tale

Seems a bit contrived. As far as I can remember from the movies, the facehuggers stay latched on for a long while before shriveling up and dying, and once they detach themselves, the bugger pops out rather quickly.

Not that contrived. It's part of what happened in Alien 3 and 4. In 3, Ripley didn't even know she was infected (instead thinking it could have been Newt) and in 4, they could easily have not known that one guy was infected if it weren't for Ripley. The time before it popped out in both was significant in context of the movies.

 

As for how long the facehugger is on, that varies from movie to movie. The AvP movies seem to present it as a very short period of time.

 

There's no set time on those things. It's at the writer's discretion, really.

Edited January 8, 200818 yr by Tale