Conan & 3.5E

[ramza]

Sorry, I didn't mean that choice was wrong. Just making an observation. I see your choice is based on something.

 

Did he have a primary sword in the howard books like the movies? (Been so long that I read one I cant recall) Or did he not have any attachment to a specific weapon and just used whatever happened to be around at the time?

 

I had the impression he was using a two-handed sword in the movies... ah, it's a shame there isn't a feat that grants a bonus for using an extra hand when fighting with single-handed weapons...

[Lyric Suite]

Int. of 12? Really? I'd say the wisdom is right, but I'm not sure Conan was much of an intellectual.

 

Intelligence isn't measured by the number of books you read. Howard was a deeply troubled character who resented his own position as a self made literati among uncouth traders and professional men who had no interest in such things. Locked in an environment that was completely anathema to his nature he sought freedom in his characters, chief among them Conan.

 

This is why he took such great care in centering his narrative in the contrast between the unflinching, unconquerable nature of the barbarian (his own personal ticket to freedom) and the inherent oppressive condition of civilization. In this sense Conan becomes a reflection of the author, and that translates in a personage of relatively great intelligence. Many of the most insightful quotes regarding this contrast of barbarism vs. civilized men come from Conan himself, and he always displays a great deal of facility in the way he learns the languages and lore of his ever changing surroundings.

 

Int. of 12? Really? I'd say the wisdom is right, but I'm not sure Conan was much of an intellectual.

 

Remember once he was released as a gladiator he was taken in by those monks and taught to read/write as well as tactics and combat. I'd say he certainly has more education then a typical commoner and I believe most of the Conan writings back up that opinion as well from what I recall.

 

Nonsense. The gladiator deal is an invention brought forth by the film that has no relation to the original character. Howard's Conan would have cracked the skull of anybody trying to put a yoke around his neck (or died trying) without the faintest hesitation. The idea that he was a slave, taught and raised in the ways of civilization by a master is to miss the point to such a degree i'm still not sure if John Milius actually read any of Howard's stories at all. The original Conan was raised as a free man, hunting wild animals in the dark hills of Cimmeria and (by age 15) fighting along side his clan's men in their raiding and war parties.

 

Even regarding Conan's martial proficiency Howard obsessively focus on his wild and barbaric traits as opposed to any specific skill. In the The Pool of the Black One, when Conan duels the pirate's captain to take control of his ship, Howard writes very explicitly that it was only thanks to his superior martial training that the latter stood toe to toe with the barbarian, at least for a time. In all of his stories, he never mentions any particular skill or technique but he often compares Conan to a wild animal against which no civilized man can stand, regardless of any special training or expertise.

 

It's only late in his career that he begins to pick up on real military training, and i think any D&D translation should probably take this into consideration by picking fighter levels late into the build.

Edited November 13, 2007 by Lyric Suite

[Gromnir]

from books we would probably end up with either

 

1-2 levels rogue

 

x levels of fighter

 

or

 

100% fighter

 

d&d barbarian not seem to be Conan. barbarian rage ain't so much a Conan thing... is simply the skills aspect that seems more barby than fighter. lack o' civilized culture? yeah. wild animal? is not how Gromnir read. savage and brutal, but not really wild. take 14 int and able learner and go to town with whatever skills you wish. Conan were pretty damn smart.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited November 13, 2007 by Gromnir

[Rhomal]

Int. of 12? Really? I'd say the wisdom is right, but I'm not sure Conan was much of an intellectual.

 

Intelligence isn't measured by the number of books you read. Howard was a deeply troubled character who resented his own position as a self made literati among uncouth traders and professional men who had no interest in such things. Locked in an environment that was completely anathema to his nature he sought freedom in his characters, chief among them Conan.

 

This is why he took such great care in centering his narrative in the contrast between the unflinching, unconquerable nature of the barbarian (his own personal ticket to freedom) and the inherent oppressive condition of civilization. In this sense Conan becomes a reflection of the author, and that translates in a personage of relatively great intelligence. Many of the most insightful quotes regarding this contrast of barbarism vs. civilized men come from Conan himself, and he always displays a great deal of facility in the way he learns the languages and lore of his ever changing surroundings.

 

Int. of 12? Really? I'd say the wisdom is right, but I'm not sure Conan was much of an intellectual.

 

Remember once he was released as a gladiator he was taken in by those monks and taught to read/write as well as tactics and combat. I'd say he certainly has more education then a typical commoner and I believe most of the Conan writings back up that opinion as well from what I recall.

 

Nonsense. The gladiator deal is an invention brought forth by the film that has no relation to the original character. Howard's Conan would have cracked the skull of anybody trying to put a yoke around his neck (or died trying) without the faintest hesitation. The idea that he was a slave, taught and raised in the ways of civilization by a master is to miss the point to such a degree i'm still not sure if John Milius actually read any of Howard's stories at all. The original Conan was raised as a free man, hunting wild animals in the dark hills of Cimmeria and (by age 15) fighting along side his clan's men in their raiding and war parties.

 

Even regarding Conan's martial proficiency Howard obsessively focus on his wild and barbaric traits as opposed to any specific skill. In the The Pool of the Black One, when Conan duels the pirate's captain to take control of his ship, Howard writes very explicitly that it was only thanks to his superior martial training that the latter stood toe to toe with the barbarian, at least for a time. In all of his stories, he never mentions any particular skill or technique but he often compares Conan to a wild animal against which no civilized man can stand, regardless of any special training or expertise.

 

It's only late in his career that he begins to pick up on real military training, and i think any D&D translation should probably take this into consideration by picking fighter levels late into the build.

 

hhmmm I stand corrected it seems, thank you for the input certainly interesting.

 

However with the discrepancy between the movie version and book version one would have settle on which version s/he is modeling the D&D PC after. Since I am more familiar with the movie version I would have to lean to that. No offense to the books or Howard's work but the few books I read was so long ago its all foggy at best to be honest.

 

But it seems we are in agreement he is 'smart' to the degree hes not running around with a 8 int. Either the movie or book version he does not seem to be a fool or generally ignorant. Thus I think a 12 int is reasonable.

Edited November 13, 2007 by Rhomal

[Rhomal]

Sorry, I didn't mean that choice was wrong. Just making an observation. I see your choice is based on something.

 

Did he have a primary sword in the howard books like the movies? (Been so long that I read one I cant recall) Or did he not have any attachment to a specific weapon and just used whatever happened to be around at the time?

 

I had the impression he was using a two-handed sword in the movies... ah, it's a shame there isn't a feat that grants a bonus for using an extra hand when fighting with single-handed weapons...

 

Did he have a specific sword in the books or did he not have a attachment to any one weapon unlike the movies?

[ramza]

Correction: It seems indeed that he was wielding a bastard sword in the movies...

[Lyric Suite]

lack o' civilized culture? yeah. wild animal? is not how Gromnir read. savage and brutal, but not really wild.

 

In case that was directed at me, i need to specify that i didn't imply his demeanor was wild, but his physical characteristics most definitely are. His superior strength, agility, cunning and heightened senses are always ascribed to his barbaric heritage. Fighting Conan it's like fighting a tiger. All considerations of martial ability and experience get thrown out of the window compared to that.

 

As an individual, he is usually very rational and cool headed which is not very 'barbaric', i agree. The fact at one point he becomes a military genius and ruler of a large kingdom should prove beyond doubt he wasn't meant to be a dull headed brute.

Edited November 13, 2007 by Lyric Suite

[Lyric Suite]

Did he have a specific sword in the books or did he not have a attachment to any one weapon unlike the movies?

 

He generally used whatever weapon was common in whatever area he traveled at any given time, though he seemed to favor bladed weapons above all.

[ramza]

Other picture

[Stephen Amber]

Barbarian rage might be better attributed to Kull. I recall a specific scene where he pretty much goes ape.

[Musopticon?]

Aah, Lyric Suite gives very good points. I agree that if we take into account the whole span of Conan's life, the martial aspect of his later years becomes apparent. He did lead army corps and the arguabley the greatest kingdom on the then-Earth. fighter levels are not out of the question. And there's no arguing his intelligence. Sure, Howard wrote the character partly as a response to the pulp characters of the era that would constantly end up in pinches, like being trapped in a room with a slowly descending ceiling, and then make an ingenious plan in a matter of moments that wouldn't only save the character, but the princess as well. Howard's Conan wouldn't dally around coming up with rope tricks and matters of mass and balance, but would trust on his instinct to kick in the door next to him and cleave the skulls of the dead-yet-dreaming gods behind it. Conan doesn't really conform to the archetype of a stupid but strong caveman, his bouts of intrinsic animality were about instinct intellect, an insight that took over when he was thrust into situations that were initially out of his control. Just like LS wrote, outside of battle, Conan was a rational character, very conscious about survival, but intelligent.

 

 

As for the weapon, he used whatever was in hand at the time. As a king, I think the used the Phoenix-inscibed sword, which apparently was larger than a lonsword, but during his life Conan was accustomed to using everything from bow to various eastern scimitars.

[Rhomal]

I find this discussion fascinating!

 

From the NPCs available who would the book Conan take to travel with him in your estimation?

 

Here are the choices I have made my version take with his mindset for each, I'd appreciate any input:

 

I felt Conan would not have felt comfortable with the bear spirit, just its raw nature in his mind would have been a threat to him as 'unnatural'. Thus I had Conan kill the bear in combat.

 

The Red Wizard, while I get the impression he is not a magic lover she is useful to finding a cure and did help him escape from the barrow. Plus her story about how/why she rescued him needs to be looking into more as he feels her mother is linked to his plight. Thus feels he can trust her to a degree.

 

The spirit shaman, hes on the fence about this one. Not sure of his motivations but he has yet to do anything to betray him so Conan is keeping him around for the time being and taking a wait and see approach.

 

The celestial cleric, while he feels she is not as hardened as she needs to be to survive in this land she is wise council and has skills that is useful on his quest. Thus feels she is a reasonable choice to be part of the party.

 

The One spirit - Conan does not feel dark spirits would be a good choice at all as they are a ill omen and he has enough problems with this curse as it is, left the spirit in the crypt.

 

Is the above a fair rationale for him?

[Stephen Amber]

Slightly ot but thought this was pretty cool:

 

Conan movie poster

[Rhomal]

anyone? :~(

[ramza]

anyone? :~(

 

It's really up to you... It's kinda hard to integrate Conan in the FR... Conan's world (at least in the movies) seemed like one where magic was rare and not as developed as in D&D. Swords and fists were likely more commonplace and more useful... Sp. there isn't anything to plan about except from the feats you can take and the weapons you want to specialize with...

[Musopticon?]

It's a fair rationale.

 

Of course, Conan probably wouldn't want them to hang around all the way, being prone to bouts of isolation. He's a very solitary man at times.

[Rhomal]

anyone? :~(

 

It's really up to you... It's kinda hard to integrate Conan in the FR... Conan's world (at least in the movies) seemed like one where magic was rare and not as developed as in D&D. Swords and fists were likely more commonplace and more useful... Sp. there isn't anything to plan about except from the feats you can take and the weapons you want to specialize with...

 

Oh I agree with all your points. However one can still trying to get inside the head of this fictional char and try to RP him and his actions to the best one can in this setting. All I am saying

[ramza]

It's a fair rationale.

 

Of course, Conan probably wouldn't want them to hang around all the way, being prone to bouts of isolation. He's a very solitary man at times.

 

Ditto...

 

And as I said earlier, Conan's world is different... so are its inhabitants... It is very unlikely Conan would be accompanied by spellcasters of all sorts and/or unnatural creatures... Both cases apply to the NPCs you meet in MotB...

 

Conan would be better off in the OC rather than in EXP1...

[Rhomal]

I don't know if I agree with the spellcaster bit. While yes hes somewhat fearful of magics he had the mage along with him in both movies, and if I recall in a book or two didn't he have some casters as allies?

[ramza]

I don't know if I agree with the spellcaster bit. While yes hes somewhat fearful of magics he had the mage along with him in both movies, and if I recall in a book or two didn't he have some casters as allies?

 

It was just a lousy mage that barely had a purpose...

[Lyric Suite]

Conan has a few qualms dealing with magic users, unless they happen to be voluptuous and fair skinned women with a soft spot for a bit of rugged barbarism after dealing with civilized flappy invertebrates their entire lives.

Edited November 16, 2007 by Lyric Suite

[Gromnir]

which motb jnpcs would Conan accept?

 

...

 

only difference 'tween red wizard and the other jnpcs is that Conan might try to get sexed up with the bald chick previous to killing her.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Rhomal]

which motb jnpcs would Conan accept?

 

...

 

only difference 'tween red wizard and the other jnpcs is that Conan might try to get sexed up with the bald chick previous to killing her.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

I got 100 influence w/ her... Shes not pouncing my Conan yet...? :/