seejai Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 i actually do believe in.... adaption.... ok i may have just invented that lol. but things adapting and changing to there environments... but not to the extreme of evolution. but i swear the mosquitos where i live have adapted/evolved into something big and evil.... the chemical infested spray kills the ppl more than the mosquitos. they are very hard to kill... "She was short, she was furry, she was loud, and she was determined to sell him a melon"- random passage from Spector of the Past by Timothy Zahn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seejai Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 that someone did you a disservice. and, i'm not sure where you came from, but it is taught everywhere i've been as theory, with many supporting facts (overwhelmingly so). very few scientific principles are treated as law (fact), gravity the most prominent (and yet, oddly, one of the least explainable in terms of "why"). i dont know if your're in high school but i am and i can say that some public schools do teach as theory "She was short, she was furry, she was loud, and she was determined to sell him a melon"- random passage from Spector of the Past by Timothy Zahn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 but things adapting and changing to there environments... but not to the extreme of evolution. for the most part, that's all evolution is. generally slow adaptation through the process of natural selection. sometimes it is punctured by very fast changes, perhaps due to a significant mutation that provides an extreme benefit to the "new" species. taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aram Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 I like that religion that thinks some powerful being created the universe, fell asleep, and has been totally oblivious since. You mean the Church of God the Utterly Indifferent? I was thinking more like the nameless cult of Azathoth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seejai Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 I like that religion that thinks some powerful being created the universe, fell asleep, and has been totally oblivious since i can believe that there is a God by "miracles" that seriously did not just happen. evolution when i've studied it seems really improbable. someone explained it to me like if you stick a bunch of parts in a bag and shake it up and get a watch. the only thing im really against is the fact that evolution is taught as fact and not theory in schools. i wouldnt say God created us and then ignored us. but if you ignore him, theres a good chance God will ignore u that someone did you a disservice. and, i'm not sure where you came from, but it is taught everywhere i've been as theory, with many supporting facts (overwhelmingly so). very few scientific principles are treated as law (fact), gravity the most prominent (and yet, oddly, one of the least explainable in terms of "why"). taks but things adapting and changing to there environments... but not to the extreme of evolution. for the most part, that's all evolution is. generally slow adaptation through the process of natural selection. sometimes it is punctured by very fast changes, perhaps due to a significant mutation that provides an extreme benefit to the "new" species. taks in that case i think things can evolve to a point but i dont think thats how they were created "She was short, she was furry, she was loud, and she was determined to sell him a melon"- random passage from Spector of the Past by Timothy Zahn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aram Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 observing not necessarily oblivious. perhaps even intervening every once in a while to right some egregious wrong. you know, allowing all the hebrews to escape their egyptian pursuers, then condemning them to walk in the desert for 40 years... that kind of thing. taks In the grand scheme of things, the earth and its entire history is simply too unfathomably tiny and inconsequential to matter to anyone but the infinitely tinier and less consequential lifeforms that randomly formed on its surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 i dont know if your're in high school but i am and i can say that some public schools do teach as theory uh, given your previous statement did you intend to say "... do teach as fact"? if so, then perhaps the lines are blurred from your high school perspective on what constitutes the differences between fact and theory? not meant to be a criticism, but i'm just saying that maybe hindsight, after you're well out of school, will allow you to see your teachings in a different light. it is, after all, referred to as "the theory of evolution" by most mainstream scientists. many (if not most) aspects of evolution are indeed fact, as they have been observed, though some of the mechanisms are in question or at least debatable. no, btw, i'm not in high school, though i am in school yet again. fortunately, i'm done with my classwork focusing on research at this point. taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WITHTEETH Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 (edited) Bottom line is I think evolution is wrong but that's not to say I agree with creation either. I think that chuck norris might have created the universe with his round house kicks. http://www.religioustolerance.org/ev_noway.htm http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/creation.shtml The media also never really tells you the evidence of creation such as the flood, noahs ark found, the place where the red sea was slip in two and a lot more. I don't really know what I believe but I don't believe evolution. Noahs Ark found? Critically think this through and you will find that a negative period. You can think what you want though. I wont attack you, but your ideas have not been critically examined by yourself. To look at a piece of desert that has a ridge and claim that as Noah's ark just because of its shape sounds rather hilarious. Can you give some real evidence so we can continue this debate? Please you can go into irreducible complexity, 2nd law of thermodynamics, entropy, the idea that DNA mutation doesn't add new information rather it just adds more of the same. how about fossil records and the DIFFERENT kinds of fossil dating methods their are and how accurate they are. How about statistics. Its takes extraordinary evidence to prove extraordinary claims. Lets have it. EDIT: I only see one post by this guy is he coming back? Edited July 18, 2007 by WITHTEETH Always outnumbered, never out gunned! Unreal Tournament 2004 Handle:Enlight_2.0 Myspace Website! My rig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 (edited) In the grand scheme of things, the earth and its entire history is simply too unfathomably tiny and inconsequential to matter to anyone but the infinitely tinier and less consequential lifeforms that randomly formed on its surface. interesting point. reminds me of a part of the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy. zaphod's ego was so large that when presented with the immensity of the entire universe, and his relative insignificance within it, it merely served to enhance his already over inflated ego. taks Edited July 18, 2007 by taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seejai Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 i dont know if your're in high school but i am and i can say that some public schools do teach as theory uh, given your previous statement did you intend to say "... do teach as fact"? if so, then perhaps the lines are blurred from your high school perspective on what constitutes the differences between fact and theory? not meant to be a criticism, but i'm just saying that maybe hindsight, after you're well out of school, will allow you to see your teachings in a different light. it is, after all, referred to as "the theory of evolution" by most mainstream scientists. many (if not most) aspects of evolution are indeed fact, as they have been observed, though some of the mechanisms are in question or at least debatable. no, btw, i'm not in high school, though i am in school yet again. fortunately, i'm done with my classwork focusing on research at this point. taks oops ok to be honest i had a blonde moment. i ment to say they dont teach it as theory. "She was short, she was furry, she was loud, and she was determined to sell him a melon"- random passage from Spector of the Past by Timothy Zahn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 twas what i suspected. taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metadigital Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 I like that religion that thinks some powerful being created the universe, fell asleep, and has been totally oblivious since i can believe that there is a God by "miracles" that seriously did not just happen. evolution when i've studied it seems really improbable. someone explained it to me like if you stick a bunch of parts in a bag and shake it up and get a watch. the only thing im really against is the fact that evolution is taught as fact and not theory in schools. i wouldnt say God created us and then ignored us. but if you ignore him, theres a good chance God will ignore u ... Because I want to believe in a god that is petty like that. But why, in any case, do we readily accept the idea that the one thing you must do if you want to please God is believe in him? What's so special about believing? Isn't it just as likely that God would reward kindness, or generosity, or humility? Or sincerity? What if God is a scientist who regards honest seeking after truth after truth as the supreme virtue? Indeed, wouldn't the designer of the universe have to be a scientist? Bertrand Russell was asked what he would say if he died and found himself confronted by God, demanding to know why Russell had not believed in him. 'Not enough evidence,' was Russell's (I almost said immortal) reply. Mightn't God respect Russell for his courageous scepticism (let alone for the courageous pacifism that landed him in prison in the First World War) far more than he would respect Pascal for his cowardly bet-hedging? OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seejai Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 i wouldnt say its petty. but if u expect someone to just be there and u dont wanna believe it , i dont see why they'd be there. I think God wants to persue everyone "She was short, she was furry, she was loud, and she was determined to sell him a melon"- random passage from Spector of the Past by Timothy Zahn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkan Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 It's always fun to read these discussions. I'll just echo the sentiment that the existence of evelotion does not negate the existance of God. On the contrary, if anything, it is a testament to his awesomeness. "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials "I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seejai Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 thats a really interesting way to view it.... but if your saying thats how things came it does contradict the bible but if you think it was created and then continue to evolve then that i might believe in "She was short, she was furry, she was loud, and she was determined to sell him a melon"- random passage from Spector of the Past by Timothy Zahn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WITHTEETH Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 i dont know if your're in high school but i am and i can say that some public schools do teach as theory uh, given your previous statement did you intend to say "... do teach as fact"? if so, then perhaps the lines are blurred from your high school perspective on what constitutes the differences between fact and theory? not meant to be a criticism, but i'm just saying that maybe hindsight, after you're well out of school, will allow you to see your teachings in a different light. it is, after all, referred to as "the theory of evolution" by most mainstream scientists. many (if not most) aspects of evolution are indeed fact, as they have been observed, though some of the mechanisms are in question or at least debatable. no, btw, i'm not in high school, though i am in school yet again. fortunately, i'm done with my classwork focusing on research at this point. taks Tak are you saying its incorrect to call evolution a fact? I think you might be playing semantics if you are implying so. Always outnumbered, never out gunned! Unreal Tournament 2004 Handle:Enlight_2.0 Myspace Website! My rig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metadigital Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 i wouldnt say its petty. but if u expect someone to just be there and u dont wanna believe it , i dont see why they'd be there. I think God wants to persue everyone You're still ascribing human emotions and mind-sets to an allegedly eternal, omniscient being. OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seejai Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 im getting confused.... "She was short, she was furry, she was loud, and she was determined to sell him a melon"- random passage from Spector of the Past by Timothy Zahn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WITHTEETH Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 ok gods great, god persues everyone.... lots of great stuff thrown around, but WHERES THE PROOF! Gimme the evidence, lets critically think. If you have no empirical evidence gimme your logical and ill counter it. Always outnumbered, never out gunned! Unreal Tournament 2004 Handle:Enlight_2.0 Myspace Website! My rig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 perhaps. taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sand Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 This is what I think. There is a lot of scientific evidence of evolution, both micro and macro-evolution but at the same time I do not believe in chance nor coincidence. Everything has a reason, everything has a purpose. It may seem that I may get into the whole Intelligent Design thing but I am not. The bottom line we simply do not know the truth one way or another, and we may never know the truth of how we came to be so I don't see the point of worrying about it. What we do know and have control over is what we are doing now and where we go from here. Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seejai Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 i dont think there is any proof to anything. or none that would necisarilly be good enough for most ppl. and that goes for evolution and creation. if you want proof for creation u'd have to read the bible with an open mind which i doubt most of you are willing to do so if you want proof, this is prolly the wrong topic "She was short, she was furry, she was loud, and she was determined to sell him a melon"- random passage from Spector of the Past by Timothy Zahn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 (edited) Tak are you saying its incorrect to call evolution a fact? I think you might be playing semantics if you are implying so. uh, technically evolution is a theory. as i said, many (if not most) aspects of evolution are indeed fact, or at least testable (observable as well). though as a whole, it is a theory. i also noted that there are few scientific theories that ever make it into the realm of law or "fact." that's just the nature of science i guess. taks Edited July 18, 2007 by taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sand Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 The Bible is not proof of creationism. It is an account of creationism based on conjecture and the understanding of the world and universe in the mindset of a primitive being who had no idea why it rained, why fire hurts, nor what causes him to get sick. Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkan Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 thats a really interesting way to view it.... but if your saying thats how things came it does contradict the bible but if you think it was created and then continue to evolve then that i might believe in It does not matter if it contradicts the bible. I take the bible for what it is. A book written by men. "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials "I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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