neo-fascism

[Guard Dog]

GD I think you're being disingenuous about the militias. While they often talk about gun control, my experience with militia members seemed to indicate they were worried about the Federal government because of things like foreigners and homosexuals. There was also the fascist emphasis on masculinity for its own sake, and the drinking of lager .

You seem to be under the impression these groups are numeous and organized. I assure you they are neither. And I seriously doubt there is great concern over foreigners and homosexuals in most of these groups. Most are found in the mountain states around the Northern Central US. I doubt they ever see more than a handful of foreigners in those parts. And in those small towns there is a total absence of any kind of "gay" subculture. So I'm certain there are homosexuals living there, but you would never know one to look at them. They are just normal people living their lives like everyone else.

 

While mistrust and fear of Uncle Sam does abound in there groups, immigration and homosexuals are an abstract concept in that part of the country, and nothing any one will be afraid of.

 

And emphasising masculinity for it's own sake is not a uniquely facist trait. Just because fascist might do it does not mean everyone who might think that way is fascist.

 

As for beer drinking, if that becomes fascist, I have a problem.

[Gfted1]

And they're not even consistent, we were out and about when we were jumped by a gang of neo-nazis that were going to beat us up because we were communists or some such.. and I notice theres an arab and a latino among them. I pointed this out to them whereupon they became a bit annoyed and proclaimed that all immigrants should go home of course, but these two guys were ok. Then it got kind of awkward and we went our separate ways without a fight.

 

 

Lol, awesome.

[taks]

Every year the Nazis band together for the Rudolph Hess march, I think he was the rather slow witted right hand of Hitler, and every year the extreme left wingers show up to throw bricks at them. It's a blast to watch, unless it's were you live.

thus proving that any ideology is, at its heart, corrupt. throwing bricks? yeah, them's some better folks than the ones marching.

 

taks

[Cantousent]

I agree with Azarkon. The most dangerous racism is not so loud and selfproclaiming as these so-called "neo-fascists." Racism that hides it's motives is far more damaging to society than neo-nazi fringe groups.

 

That said, things like fascist and communist get thrown around with absolute abandon. Just because someone is conservative doesn't make them a neo-fascist any more than being a liberal makes someone a communist. There are neo-fascists, and there are communist, but for the labels to have any meaning, we should probably use them where they actually apply.

[taks]

yup. fascism and communism actually sort of "meet" in many respects w.r.t. actual political beliefs, right at a point called "collectivist."

 

taks

[Blarghagh]

I was watching something about this on the History Channel once. And their leader was speaking to the camera, explaining why they were so much better then every other race. And as the camera pans out, you see that he's sitting in a trailer park, beer cans on the floor, his jeans have 23 holes in them, and he's talking about them being successful.

 

The house they lived in was no bigger then the shed in my backyard, with some crappy couch and some 1960s TV. It's sad, cause they showed one of the guy's kid, and he was probably around three or four, and they were teaching him things like "Who are the bad people?" and of course he'd answer with that word for black people. Then there was my favorite one..."Where does Adolf Hitler live?" and the kid goes "My heart".

 

That reminds me of the time my history and english teacher's brought in an actual neo-nazi to my school for educational purposes (I'll be damned if I can figure them out). The guy was completely convinced that the jew destruction camps and stuff didn't happen. When we asked him to explain, he said "have you ever seen one"? But we live quite near one of the transitional camps in Holland, and most of us answered "yes" in choir. We then proceeded to ask him if he ever saw "Scheveningen", a dutch city. He said no. "Well, that must mean it doesn't exist."

[Gorgon]

yup. fascism and communism actually sort of "meet" in many respects w.r.t. actual political beliefs, right at a point called "collectivist."

 

taks

Nah, they're both elitist. The rabble doesen't have any say whatsoever. At one point, when they came to power the rabble helped put them there, after that they could tow the line or wind up in the death camps/gulags.

Edited July 13, 2007 by Gorgon

[Fenghuang]

I agree with Azarkon. The most dangerous racism is not so loud and selfproclaiming as these so-called "neo-fascists." Racism that hides it's motives is far more damaging to society than neo-nazi fringe groups.

 

That said, things like fascist and communist get thrown around with absolute abandon. Just because someone is conservative doesn't make them a neo-fascist any more than being a liberal makes someone a communist. There are neo-fascists, and there are communist, but for the labels to have any meaning, we should probably use them where they actually apply.

 

 

You sound like a commie.

[Cantousent]

That's me. Give me a hammer, a sickle, and a case of vodka and I'm set for the rest of the month.

[Fenghuang]

Now you sound like a frat boy.

[Walsingham]

You seem to be under the impression these groups are numeous and organized. I assure you they are neither. And I seriously doubt there is great concern over foreigners and homosexuals in most of these groups. Most are found in the mountain states around the Northern Central US. I doubt they ever see more than a handful of foreigners in those parts. And in those small towns there is a total absence of any kind of "gay" subculture. So I'm certain there are homosexuals living there, but you would never know one to look at them. They are just normal people living their lives like everyone else.

 

While mistrust and fear of Uncle Sam does abound in there groups, immigration and homosexuals are an abstract concept in that part of the country, and nothing any one will be afraid of.

 

And emphasising masculinity for it's own sake is not a uniquely facist trait. Just because fascist might do it does not mean everyone who might think that way is fascist.

 

As for beer drinking, if that becomes fascist, I have a problem.

 

GD I don't know what experience you have, but I have a modicum of experience, having interviewed at length three militia members and read reams of their (incredibly tedious) pamphlets and websites.* I don't propose to go hunting through it again for quotes unless I'm getting paid. But they're constantly banging on about the United Nations, the Zionist Occupation Government, and homosexuals in high office. It's part and parceel of the grand conspiracy mentality.

 

The fact that they never meet foriegners or knowingly meet homosexuals isn't an obstacle to this mentality. It's a positive leg up.

 

I accept your point about the political aspirations being non-fascist. but only on the grounds that they are non-collectivist.

 

*Why are extremists incapable of writing properly? If you ever find your hatred of Al Qaeda flagging then just sit down with some of their propaganda for four hours.

[Lare Kikkeli]

GD, the worst homophobes / racists are always the backwater ones who've never seen any minorities outside of television. You don't need to go far into the countryside in Finland to see that. I'm sure it's the same everywhere.

Edited July 13, 2007 by Lare Kikkeli

[Guard Dog]

Lare and Wals, I'm afraid I'll have to conceede your points here. Beyond what I read in the news, or see on TV I (thankfully) have no first hand knowledge of this stuff beyond it's text book definition.

 

I've never seen any skinheads in Florida. I have seen Klansmen, but no skinheads. As for the guys in the Klan... talk about a walking sterotype.

[Laozi]

Now you sound like a frat boy.

 

 

 

eeeeewwwwww, burnsauce.

 

 

 

 

 

 

oh wait, wrong.......

[Cantousent]

Was it the hammer and sickle... or the vodka?

[Kaftan Barlast]

http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=554&a=670772 (swedish link)

 

 

"This years zionist award goes to.... a nazi!"

 

The World Zionist organisation recently awarded a Swedish man with their annual Herzl award, but little did they know that the person in question is an active member of 'Sverigedemokraterna', the largest nationalist/neo-nazi organisation in Sweden.

[samm]

walsingham: how come you had to (wanted to?) interview these militia-members?

militas of this kind always remind me of some wallander-books by mankell... it's sad that like-(and narrow-)minded people tend to organise and mutually increase their fears...

 

but little did they know

completely off topic, but did you see 'stranger than fiction'?

Edited July 13, 2007 by samm

[Shryke]

a very good friend of mine was one of the founding members of a certain skinhead gang here in NZ

 

these days however, he's mellowed out a lot, and has nothing to do with it anymore. and with all skinheads i've met (current and ex-skinheads), he can sure as hell drink!

[Walsingham]

Samm, I wanted to interview them initially because I found them hilarious. For many years I was in the habit of interviewing anyone I pleased. With or without a reason beyond curiosity. This largely stopped after one of my interviewees tried to stab me. I am pleased to report he was very bad at it. Lest I be guilty of misrepresentation I must say he was not a militia member or neofascist. I am sure they would stab me properly.

 

I once attempted to interview the AWB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrikaner_Weerstandsbeweging) in South Africa. But while approaching them I suddenly realised how perfectly stupid they were and burst out laughing. I had to hide behind a car. I am quite certain that they could hear someone laughing, but they'd have had to admit how silly they looked in order to do anything about it.

 

I do not recommend this style of research to anyone. Unless it works.

[Musopticon?]

[Dark_Raven]

I'm always surprised by the level of experience and reading on the forum, and it occurred to me that there might be people here with knowledge of neo-fascists. That is white supremacists typically. I don't know much about these people beyond their associates in the militias of the USA.

 

Ring any bells?

Only Nazis ring any bells.

[Guest The Architect]

I feel bad having called my older brother a racist moron and stuff in this thread earlier. Even though it's true, later on that day we watched Kicking & Screaming and he was all nice and normal and stuff, so yeah, the point I was trying to make before is that I think half these neo-Nazi's or whatever you wanna call them aren't truly racist and just think that acting and talking like a tough bully person even though they're not being who they truly are makes them cool and gives them the attention they must've been deprived of or believed they didn't get enough of in their childhood or something.

 

So again, my point is, instead of targeting and trying to bring down the silly belief/concept/whatever you wanna call it of racism as a whole via promoting anti-racist material via the media, I think that it's the people who are racist who need to be taken one or one for therapy, for counseling, things like that, to resolve their personal problems, and if that can be achieved, let's see if the individuals who resolve their personal problems are still racist or not.

Edited July 14, 2007 by The Architect

[Calax]

I live in a... rich... area (re:snobby) and find that there are really two versions of extremists in the mentality that wals is talking about, the boonie ones who are stereotyped as being blue collar, living in the deep south, and never seeing anything other than white people in power until they hit college where they get upset that a person of another ethnicity got to be student president when there was a perfectly good white guy running against him, so they become reactionary and think that all governments are corrupt and run by secret societies controlled by _____ (pick your target ethnic group) and thus We (being the dominant race) must take back the power and give it to the people (who will inevitably love their 'saivor' and give him freebooze and women for the rest of his life)

 

then theres the rich people who will put on a facade of tolerance and like, but when you get them behind closed doors they are racist as all hell. They generally lived in an area like mine where you had all the ethic divercity of the continental congress and their parents grew up on the wrong side of the civil rights movement (meaning they fought it) and have enough money that their parents by them a brand new mustang on their sixteenth birthday, then cry because it's not the right model.

 

the latter are more dangerous because they have enough money/influence to run and achieve political power and push through some rather bad legislature.

[Walsingham]

the latter are more dangerous because they have enough money/influence to run and achieve political power and push through some rather bad legislature.

 

 

Good point, and one I think Azarkon was making earlier (is it just me or was he also digging at me when he mentioned the white man's burden?). It's the empowered classes who actually pose the greatest large scale threat to immigrants, homosexuals and what have you. It's also the empowered classes, particularly the enfamilied powered classes who get conspiratorial when faced with the realisation that the real world may not be so keen on them as mumsy and dadsy.

 

However, the empowered classes aren't what you have to worried about on a Friday evening out for a meal.

[Azarkon]

Hey, Kipling might have coined the phrase, but it was Americans who were the subject of it. Don't hug all the infamy!

Edited July 14, 2007 by Azarkon