seejai Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 ok i noticed that in shatterpoint it says mace windu invented vaapad but in other books and comics ( like darth bane) it says its a sith form. another thing is in a timothy zahn book ( i think... sorry to be vague. i cant think of which one it is) leia said she remembered her mom giving her to senator organa which didnt happen bc she was dead . but i guess its explainable bc the movie was after the book. any way thats one of my pet peeves. so my question is if any of you have noticed these kind of things ( altho they usually do a pretty good job of not) and if you have any explanaition "She was short, she was furry, she was loud, and she was determined to sell him a melon"- random passage from Spector of the Past by Timothy Zahn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tale Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Prior to the prequal trilogy's release it was believed that all Dark Side force users exploded when they died, a la Palpatine down the shaft. You can see this in books such as The Courtship of Princess Leia. "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Mortis Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 ok i noticed that in shatterpoint it says mace windu invented vaapad but in other books and comics ( like darth bane) it says its a sith form. I think it would be reasonable to assume that a Jedi master would be unable to learn a Sith lightsabre form (Or very unwilling) without becoming a Sith or Dark Jedi themselves, and since Mace Windu developed/started using Vaapad at a time when the sith had been gone for a thousand year there shouldn't have been anyone around to teach him that form anyway. The best explination for this is the simplest-its a coincidence. Vaapad was named (according to the book of Revenge of the Sith) after a lethal preditor on Windu's homeworld, it would be reasonable to assume that the Sith might name a lightsabre form after such a predator. So I'd say that both 'forms' of Vaapad just shared the same name, in the same way that 'Cannon' can mean both the main armament of a wooden sailing ship or a gun used on an aircraft. another thing is in a timothy zahn book ( i think... sorry to be vague. i cant think of which one it is) leia said she remembered her mom giving her to senator organa which didnt happen bc she was dead . but i guess its explainable bc the movie was after the book. any way thats one of my pet peeves. The same problem occures in the film Return of the Jedi, when Leia tells Luke that she remembers her mother-even though Padme dies just after naming her children. GL did have a line added to the book Revenge of the Sith where Leia is looking around and taking note of everything in the room, and I *Think* there is a brief scene in the film where you can see baby Leia's eyes open and looking around. Yes it is a rather lame explination, but at least they noted the error. so my question is if any of you have noticed these kind of things ( altho they usually do a pretty good job of not) and if you have any explanaition One that I've always noted is that the explination as to why only Jedi (or Sith) can make lightsabres differs. In one book (I forget which book, but I think it was the Return of the Jedi) it is said that only a Jedi can align the crystal correctly. In 'I Jedi' though it is said that the Jedi uses the force to intergrate all the differing components in such as way as to dramatically increase their efficency. On the same general subject Luke tells Leia in one of the Heir to the Empire books that he can make her a lightsabre anytime-the implication being that for him its not that hard (Potentally correct). But again in 'I Jedi' it is stated that the 'normal' way to create a lightsabre takes a month, and the miniumim time is two days..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seejai Posted July 6, 2007 Author Share Posted July 6, 2007 ive noticed the lightsaber thing too.its hard when they start pulling all this old republic stuff. ive never noticed the leia looking around thing. thanks for the thoughts "She was short, she was furry, she was loud, and she was determined to sell him a melon"- random passage from Spector of the Past by Timothy Zahn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Mortis Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 ive never noticed the leia looking around thing. thanks for the thoughts To be fair its mentioned on the comentary of the Revenge of the Sith DVD, although I can't remember if it was GL who said that or someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tale Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 another thing is in a timothy zahn book ( i think... sorry to be vague. i cant think of which one it is) leia said she remembered her mom giving her to senator organa which didnt happen bc she was dead . but i guess its explainable bc the movie was after the book. any way thats one of my pet peeves. The same problem occures in the film Return of the Jedi, when Leia tells Luke that she remembers her mother-even though Padme dies just after naming her children. GL did have a line added to the book Revenge of the Sith where Leia is looking around and taking note of everything in the room, and I *Think* there is a brief scene in the film where you can see baby Leia's eyes open and looking around. Yes it is a rather lame explination, but at least they noted the error. I thought the better explanation was that she remembered her adopted mother. She probably never even knew she was adopted. "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seejai Posted July 6, 2007 Author Share Posted July 6, 2007 what she said in the book i read is that she remembers her mother crying as she gave the baby to bail. to me it sounded like padme was alive after birth and in this book she already knew about her parentage "She was short, she was furry, she was loud, and she was determined to sell him a melon"- random passage from Spector of the Past by Timothy Zahn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr insomniac Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 ok i noticed that in shatterpoint it says mace windu invented vaapad but in other books and comics ( like darth bane) it says its a sith form. I think it would be reasonable to assume that a Jedi master would be unable to learn a Sith lightsabre form (Or very unwilling) without becoming a Sith or Dark Jedi themselves, and since Mace Windu developed/started using Vaapad at a time when the sith had been gone for a thousand year there shouldn't have been anyone around to teach him that form anyway. The best explination for this is the simplest-its a coincidence. Vaapad was named (according to the book of Revenge of the Sith) after a lethal preditor on Windu's homeworld, it would be reasonable to assume that the Sith might name a lightsabre form after such a predator. So I'd say that both 'forms' of Vaapad just shared the same name, in the same way that 'Cannon' can mean both the main armament of a wooden sailing ship or a gun used on an aircraft. Wookiepedia On Windu. Lots of good stuff here on Mace Windu, and I believe this is all considered canon. In there, it says he created Vaapad, and that it is dangerous for a Jedi because to practice it one has to give in to their enjoyment of fighting... and further, that the only other two practicioners were driven insane by the form, and turned to the Dark Side. I took this job because I thought you were just a legend. Just a story. A story to scare little kids. But you're the real deal. The demon who dares to challenge God. So what the hell do you want? Don't seem to me like you're out to make this stinkin' world a better place. Why you gotta kill all my men? Why you gotta kill me? Nothing personal. It's just revenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xard Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 EU sucks Simple as that. Only Kotors and Thrawn books should be allowed to live How can it be a no ob build. It has PROVEN effective. I dare you to show your builds and I will tear you apart in an arugment about how these builds will won them. - OverPowered Godzilla (OPG) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Mortis Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 (edited) another thing is in a timothy zahn book ( i think... sorry to be vague. i cant think of which one it is) leia said she remembered her mom giving her to senator organa which didnt happen bc she was dead . but i guess its explainable bc the movie was after the book. any way thats one of my pet peeves. The same problem occures in the film Return of the Jedi, when Leia tells Luke that she remembers her mother-even though Padme dies just after naming her children. GL did have a line added to the book Revenge of the Sith where Leia is looking around and taking note of everything in the room, and I *Think* there is a brief scene in the film where you can see baby Leia's eyes open and looking around. Yes it is a rather lame explination, but at least they noted the error. I thought the better explanation was that she remembered her adopted mother. She probably never even knew she was adopted. I think Leia always knew she was apopted, and I don't think she was talking about her adopted mother. Luke asks what Leia remembers of her mother-her REAL mother-and Leia doesn't seem to show any surprise at being asked this. Another explination that could be used is that Leia is remembering one of Padme's handmaidens who went to Alderan to look after Leia for a while. EU sucks Simple as that. Only Kotors and Thrawn books should be allowed to live The X-Wing series was good, as was Specter of the past, vision of the future and I Jedi. But otherwise I agree that most of the EU doesn't deserve to stay alive. Edited July 6, 2007 by Darth Mortis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xard Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Oh, right, those too How can it be a no ob build. It has PROVEN effective. I dare you to show your builds and I will tear you apart in an arugment about how these builds will won them. - OverPowered Godzilla (OPG) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seejai Posted July 6, 2007 Author Share Posted July 6, 2007 (edited) they should only live if they fit with the other books...... thrawn books are great tho. im likeing darth bane besides the whole vaapad thing. but the guy who wrote darth bane is the guy who was the story writer for kotor 1. with the whole leia thing i dont think there is really an explanation. it sounds like they just didnt want to follow the book in the movie Edited July 6, 2007 by seejai "She was short, she was furry, she was loud, and she was determined to sell him a melon"- random passage from Spector of the Past by Timothy Zahn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr insomniac Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 EU sucks Simple as that. Only Kotors and Thrawn books should be allowed to live Perhaps, I dunno. I never paid much attention to anything that came after Return Of The Jedi, at least until the KOTOR games, and one could argue they are well before ROTJ, I suppose. Putting aside anything else the article says about Windu, there is one quote he says to Obi-Wan, in the novelization of ROTS: "I created Vaapad to answer my weakness: it channels my own darkness into a weapon of the light." I took this job because I thought you were just a legend. Just a story. A story to scare little kids. But you're the real deal. The demon who dares to challenge God. So what the hell do you want? Don't seem to me like you're out to make this stinkin' world a better place. Why you gotta kill all my men? Why you gotta kill me? Nothing personal. It's just revenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darhsiofrus Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 well if mace created it without knowing it was a sith form thousands of yrs ago its convinient that they have the same name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Mortis Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 with the whole leia thing i dont think there is really an explanation. it sounds like they just didnt want to follow the book in the movie It's just one of those errors that crop up when you try to write about events that are history from a characters point of view, but haven't been 'seen' and therefore get changed later. There is a similar problem in the Thrawn books, where a lot of the information about the Clone wars (or rather the clones) seems to imply the clones were the enemy, when of course they were not (Unless you happened to be a Jedi). Being fair however none of the information seems to directly contradict anything said or seen in the prequels. There is something of a problem with the Stormtroopers however. GL has stated that they are all clones, which contradicts what happens in the Thrawn trilogy since everyone seems surprised that the Empire is using clone troopers. It also condadicts information given in later books-specifacaly the Jedi academy series (Kryp's brother is a stormtrooper in one of the books), but it occurs frequently-when it is clear that many of the stormtroopers are not clones at all. The best explination that I can think of is that 'Stormtrooper' is a general term, and it was simply used for all the Empires ground/combat troops in the same way that 'Soldier' can be used for anyone in the army-even if they are in special forces. This still doesn't explain why everyone was acting so surprised when Thrawn started useing clones, as unless all the clones were killed on the two death stars some of them should still have been around and serving in the Empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seejai Posted July 6, 2007 Author Share Posted July 6, 2007 ya. i always thought that the storm trooper were a little of left over clones and a little normal troopers. but when the clones that thrawn used come in those where made at the emperors mt place. not kamino. idk if kamino was destroyed... maybe that would explain the confusion if it was bc at the time i dont think they knew about mt whatever its called "She was short, she was furry, she was loud, and she was determined to sell him a melon"- random passage from Spector of the Past by Timothy Zahn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tale Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 "I created Vaapad to answer my weakness: it channels my own darkness into a weapon of the light." Jesus Ted Theodore Logan Christ that is a gay line. "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seejai Posted July 7, 2007 Author Share Posted July 7, 2007 he didnt created it.... "She was short, she was furry, she was loud, and she was determined to sell him a melon"- random passage from Spector of the Past by Timothy Zahn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 i always kinda assumed the stormtroopers were originally clones, but then they just started accepting recruits or something i mean, Kyle Katarn (from the Dark Forces series) used to be a stormtrooper, and he definitely doesn't look like one of the clones when your mind works against you - fight back with substance abuse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seejai Posted July 7, 2007 Author Share Posted July 7, 2007 yeah i think that may have been it bc they prolly started to run out "She was short, she was furry, she was loud, and she was determined to sell him a melon"- random passage from Spector of the Past by Timothy Zahn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathScepter Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 or got too expensive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seejai Posted July 7, 2007 Author Share Posted July 7, 2007 (edited) well what happened to kamino after the clone wars?? bc that may have had something to do with it. and jango fett died. idk maybe they could have used boba Edited July 7, 2007 by seejai "She was short, she was furry, she was loud, and she was determined to sell him a melon"- random passage from Spector of the Past by Timothy Zahn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathScepter Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 a clone of a clone will tend to not be as good. But If the Empire was smart, then they would have some genetic samples of Jango. Also other Mandalorian, either pure bloods or first generation, could be used for Clones. A pure blood Mandalorian is purely from the Mandalorian clans aka Clan Ordo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seejai Posted July 7, 2007 Author Share Posted July 7, 2007 a clone of a clone will tend to not be as good. But If the Empire was smart, then they would have some genetic samples of Jango. Also other Mandalorian, either pure bloods or first generation, could be used for Clones. A pure blood Mandalorian is purely from the Mandalorian clans aka Clan Ordo. my brother just said that about the clone of the clone. i dont think it was a problem finding more dna "She was short, she was furry, she was loud, and she was determined to sell him a melon"- random passage from Spector of the Past by Timothy Zahn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Mortis Posted July 7, 2007 Share Posted July 7, 2007 well what happened to kamino after the clone wars?? bc that may have had something to do with it.and jango fett died. idk maybe they could have used boba I *Think* that the clone masters on Kamino created some clones who were free of the Empires programming in an attempt to gain their independence, and the Empire sent their own clones in, rather than risk having to fight a war against another clone army. I don't know the full details, but in the end I think that either all the equipment was destroyed, so they couldn'y make any more clones, or they decided that relying on a clone army exclusivly was too dangerious-someone could potentally do the same thing to the clones that Palpatine did-ie given them hidden programming. Having your entire army made from clones would also be a major problem if someone developed a biological agent that only affected the clones-you'd lose your entire army. I do know that the clones had a short life span (there is a load of stuff about this with Boba Fett in the EU about clone degeneration), so if they stopped being produced within a few years of the end of the clone wars, by the time of Yavin most of them would be either dead or in no condition to fight. This would nessasitate finding replacements. It could be assumed that the Clones were a stop-gap, and were only intended to fight the clone wars, turn against the Jedi and help set the scene for the Empires early years. After this the new Empire would be able to start recruiting from the normal population. Having 'normal' (non-clone) armies has a number of advantages, it is cheaper since you only need to pay for them when you are training them and since they don't all look alike all a stormtrooper has to do to blend in-ie if they are spying or acting as plain clothes bodyguards-is to take off their armour. And I would imagine that the thought that the people who were employing the empires rule of terror were the sons of those being terrorised would be quite delightful for a Sith Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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