Fallout find!

[Sand]

What? They don't have any creative ideas of their own?

 

Why buy the Fallout franchise if they are not going to make a Fallout game? Only people who will care about the name Fallout would be the old fan base and they aren't even being considered with the game's design.

Edited June 20, 2007 by Sand

[Tale]

What? They don't have any creative ideas of their own?

 

Do creative ideas of their own come with the built in hype of the Fallout franchise?

 

I honestly wouldn't have cared about the game if it hadn't been named Fallout. But since it is, I see multiple threads on this forum with at least one active every single day. Mere exposure effect has won me over and I'll probably buy the damned thing.

 

 

Why buy the Fallout franchise if they are not going to make a Fallout game? Only people who will care about the name Fallout would be the old fan base and they aren't even being considered with the game's design.

Because this logic does not prove true in the field. The old fan base cares, they get hyped, the hype spreads. New fans also care because they recognize the name as a classic without having ever played the previous ones. Edited June 20, 2007 by Tale

[Jorian Drake]

Edited for more truth in the comment:

 

Because THEY lack imagination.

 

 

I wrote that into the other forum already some hours ago

[Sand]

What? They don't have any creative ideas of there own?

Do creative ideas of their own come with the built in hype of the Fallout franchise?

 

I honestly wouldn't have cared about the game if it hadn't been named Fallout. But since it is, I see multiple threads on this forum with at least one active every single day. Mere exposure effect has won me over and I'll probably buy the damned thing.

 

The reason it has Fallout on the box and how the game is being designed is the primary reason why I am not buying the game.

 

Real time, first person combat with Action Points spent as Mana

Forced to play a 19 year old

Oblivion styled Dialogue system (can we say conversation minigame anyone?)

Nuclear powered sling shot

and so forth and so on.

 

I have yet read anything about this game that makes me want to buy it.

[Tale]

Yet I'll probably end up buying it and recommending it to my friends who are more akin to the target audience.

 

By the constant talking about it, I've been intrigued and will introduce others.

Edited June 20, 2007 by Tale

[Sand]

Your money to waste then. Might as well get FOPOS while you are at it.

[Tale]

To waste? As long as it doesn't have level scaling, it'll probably be an awesome game.

 

What the heck is FOPOS?

[Sand]

Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel. A real time actiony game like Fallout 3 is going to be using the BGDA engine for the X Box. Last Fallout game put forth by Interplay before it died. It failed miserably.

[Tale]

Why would I buy a failed game?

 

Just because you don't like what they're presenting for Fallout 3 by no means indicates it is going to fail. Did you like what they did with Oblivion? How'd that do?

Edited June 20, 2007 by Tale

[Tigranes]

Because in the World of Sand, all games he proclaims are crap are crap for everybody and will fail miserably, and you're wasting your money buying them.

 

By the way, there's another stupid Fallout walking around, it's got screwed up things like crapola graphics, a freaking prehistoric tribe, talking animals, nukes, the President of America and a man about four metres tall looking like he just crawled out of a gundam's rear.

 

We'll see what happens with combat and dialogue, since we have, like, one vague sentence of info each.

[Sand]

Why would I buy a failed game?

 

Just because you don't like what they're presenting for Fallout 3 by no means indicates it is going to fail. Did you like what they did with Oblivion? How'd that do?

Oblivion has pretty graphics, the dialogue system sucks, level scaling is poorly done, the real time actiony combat makes range weapons next to useless, and the UI is way too consolish. The game needs major mod work done to it to even be playable at a acceptable level.

[Tale]

Why would I buy a failed game?

 

Just because you don't like what they're presenting for Fallout 3 by no means indicates it is going to fail. Did you like what they did with Oblivion? How'd that do?

Oblivion has pretty graphics, the dialogue system sucks, level scaling is poorly done, the real time actiony combat makes range weapons next to useless, and the UI is way too consolish. The game needs major mod work done to it to even be playable at a acceptable level.

Yet is still highly popular.

 

Which means your opinion is quite a bit askew from the market.

[Sand]

So? I don;'t really care about the market to much. As I said, I wouldn't really mind what Bethesda is doing to the game if it didn't have Fallout on the box, but it does.

[Tale]

So?

 

I don;'t really care about the market to much. As I said, I wouldn't really mind what Bethesda is doing to the game if it didn't have Fallout on the box, but it does.

SO! your ability to make assertions about the success or failure of a game based solely on the merit of your opinion is negligible.

[Sand]

So?

 

I don;'t really care about the market to much. As I said, I wouldn't really mind what Bethesda is doing to the game if it didn't have Fallout on the box, but it does.

SO! your ability to make assertions about the success or failure of a game based solely on the merit of your opinion is negligible.

Well, duh. That's a given.

[mkreku]

Oblivion styled Dialogue system (can we say conversation minigame anyone?)

This is the first piece of information they've released that I didn't want to hear. I don't care about the rest of the superficial stuff (not even the Nuke catapult), but if they aren't even willing to admit and realize the inherent flaws of Oblivion, then we're in trouble.

 

At least they've admitted that level scaling was messed up.

[Diamond]

I have never played Oblivion, but this dialogue system sounds bad enough already. When was it confirmed officially?

[Sand]

In that Game Informer article about it.

[Slowtrain]

At least they've admitted that level scaling was messed up.

 

It will be interesting to see if level scaling returns in the next ES game. Level scaling goes back at least as far as Daggerfall; I can't remember if Arena had it though.

 

 

There's nothing wrong with level scaling in and of itself, Jagged Alliance 2 and XCOM both use it. So do the Wizardry games. The key is how it is implemented.

 

 

Anyway, I have nothing against FO 3 and Bethesda but the info that has been released about the game so far has caused my potential interest to drop signifcantly. Still a long long way to go though.

[Tale]

Baldur's Gate I, II, and ToB all have level scaling, as well. You're right that the key is implementation.

 

Sin: Emergence used a dynamic difficulty system, which is an FPS parallel to level scaling. For some, myself included, this resulted in the game scaling up to massive numbers of incredibly tough enemes that don't drop ammo. Man, the patch that fixed it was so nice. It's problem was a bug.

 

Oblivion's problem was that it went too far. Equipment was replaced, creatures were replaced, loot in dungeons was removed. It took level scaling too literaly, if I can use that word appropriately in context. The entire world could change drastically overnight just because you gained a level. And maybe what's worse is the learn by doing system wasn't integrated into it, only the levelling aspect was. Creatures were scaled against a level 20 character, when levels tell relatively little about combat ability in their system.

Edited June 20, 2007 by Tale

[Slowtrain]

Baldur's Gate I, II, and ToB all have level scaling, as well. You're right that the key is implementation.

 

 

They did? To my memory all encounters in BG 1 and 2 were static, level-wise. Loot as well. Its been a loig time though so perhaps I misremember. I never played ToB so my knowledge fails there.

 

 

Oblivion's problem was that it went too far. Equipment was replaced, creatures were replaced, loot in dungeons was removed. It took level scaling too literaly, if I can use that word appropriately in context.

 

 

Yeah. It's weird because it worked more or less the same way in Morrowind and Daggerfall, but it didn't seem nearly so annoying and stupid in either of those games.

[Slowtrain]

Creatures were scaled against a level 20 character, when levels tell relatively little about combat ability in their system.

 

 

What do you mean? that sounds interesting, but I'm not entirely sure what it means.

[Jorian Drake]

level scaled goblins and glibberlings?

 

i don't remember anything like that, maybe you just played a BG-Oblivion mod?

[Tale]

Baldur's Gate I, II, and ToB all have level scaling, as well. You're right that the key is implementation.

 

 

They did? To my memory all encounters in BG 1 and 2 were static, level-wise. Loot as well. Its been a loig time though so perhaps I misremember. I never played ToB so my knowledge fails there.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I know for 100% fact that companion NPCs scaled for party when they first join you. But that's not really level scaling in an applicable fashion to the topic.

 

Oblivion's problem was that it went too far. Equipment was replaced, creatures were replaced, loot in dungeons was removed. It took level scaling too literaly, if I can use that word appropriately in context.

 

 

Yeah. It's weird because it worked more or less the same way in Morrowind and Daggerfall, but it didn't seem nearly so annoying and stupid in either of those games.

Morrowind had a different scale. Enemies didn't change equipment, loot stayed in dungeons. As you gained a level, the capability of the enemies scaled by a lower value than they do in Oblivion.

 

I have to wonder if any of it has to do with their elimination of to-hit.

[karka]

Puzzle Quest's system was ok.

 

For example

 

A goblin is level 7 when you're <7

 

when your level is between 7 and 12, goblin's level is sclaled to your level.

 

And when your level is >12, Goblin's level stuck at 12.

 

So it's impossible to see a Uber-Goblin in Puzzle Quest. How ironic that a simple puzzle game handles the level-scaling system much better than a game like Oblivion.

Edited June 20, 2007 by karka