Political Hypocrisy at it's Finest

[Sand]

So what Global Warming is happening. Life on this miserable little mudball will go on. The various species will either adapt or die, that includes us. If global warming can be stopped, great, but it will need to major societal shift in our myriad of civilizations which only a world wide cataclysm can provide.

[thepixiesrock]

It's as if he thinks he lives inside a videogame or something.

[taks]

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=116511

http://environment.newscientist.com/articl...-humankind.html

so your proof of a "consensus" is a couple news stories, stories that don't even make the claim you say? my god man... get real. you can't even show evidence of your own point. the articles say "90% certain GW is man made" not "90% of scientists agree," which is what i asked you to prove. you aren't even capable of showing evidence to support your own arguments, let alone debate mine.

 

Why don't you prove that there is widespread bullying of scientist who refuse to go along with the notion now ?

i didn't say that. show me where i said that. if you're going to argue a point, the least you could do is argue something i said, not something you think i said.

 

i said many are afraid for fear of being outcast. you do recall the CNN weather expert saying meterologists should have their certifications revoked if they choose not to "believe," right? duh.

 

taks

[taks]

this is the problem with society, people like gorgon are running off at the mouth based on reports by political organizations (IPCC) and news media. you don't even understand the underlying methodological arguments, nor the science, yet you sit in here and debate as if you're experts. al gore is the same. he refuses to debate his movie simply because he is not capable of defending it. yet here we sit, constantly barraged with the same old disinformation. skeptics constantly compared to heretics that don't believe the holocaust existed. unfreakingbelievable.

 

news flash, alarmism _sells_...

 

taks

[taks]

So what Global Warming is happening. Life on this miserable little mudball will go on. The various species will either adapt or die, that includes us. If global warming can be stopped, great, but it will need to major societal shift in our myriad of civilizations which only a world wide cataclysm can provide.

it is now, and more than likely the leading cause is the sun (holy cow, you mean the sun actually has a role in the planet's climate???). unfortunately, or fortunately, the sun is expected to go into another low-activity period, which could have devastating effects on our climate (cooling). if anyone thinks that "warming" is bad, they should take a look at what happened during the little ice age, particularly during the maunder minimum.

 

taks

[Sand]

Well, you won't get any disagreement from me, taks.

[Lokey]

i said many are afraid for fear of being outcast. you do recall the CNN weather expert saying meterologists should have their certifications revoked if they choose not to "believe," right? duh.

 

taks

It's very hard to look at your political stances and who you back, then your location and not laugh. Also, I'm sorry I referenced something outside the limited scope of your knowledge

 

Why do you not have to prove your random assertions? Who are the many and why are they afraid of being outcast? Why don't they accept better paying/fewer hours/etc jobs at think tanks to say the opposite of what they're saying now?

[Sand]

Lokey, why do you accept what 90% of these scientists are saying? What makes you so certain that these scientists are right when science itself is never certain. Question everything!

[Gorgon]

"so your proof of a "consensus" is a couple news stories,"

 

The 90% of the scientific community was in a BBC report and another link I can't find now. The 'news story' is about the IPCC report which is considered the one stop authority about global climate change, science is not about link contests though, if you look hard enough you can find a web page 'scientifically' supporting any claim you care to make, regardless, since your claim is the more outrageous why don't you 'prove' that there is no consensus. I have a sneaky feeling though, that you are not interested in finding out anything that conflicts with your current position.

 

 

 

"The latest IPCC report was written by hundreds of experts and reviewed by hundreds more, from 113 countries. It is being released in stages during 2007. The first chapter, released on Friday, deals with the scientific basis for climate change.

 

The next two parts of the IPCC's 2007 assessment, plus a synthesis, will be released throughout the year. Part 2, dealing with the impacts of climate change and our vulnerability to those impacts, will be released in April. Part 3, to be released in May, deals with how we might mitigate these impacts."

Edited March 2, 2007 by Gorgon

[Lokey]

Lokey, why do you accept what 90% of these scientists are saying? What makes you so certain that these scientists are right when science itself is never certain. Question everything!

Actually I don't. The figure refers to the expectation value of the Climate Panel which is 90%, as opposed to the 50% that the 2001 report had (in reference to the human activity component of global warming). But I've only read the executive summary, not the portions of the report currently available or its references and so on. I don't have an informed opinion on the matter, but that doesn't mean I won't be more dismissive of a gotcha article from a random marketing group either

 

There has been 99.x% agreement in polls of scientists (or scienceticians ) about aspects of warming I can vaguely recall...wouldn't put too much stock in that anyway. Science by survey, ick.

 

Also science can be right when expectation values or various statistical correlations are low or experimental error is high... While your middle sentence is true, it carries baggage when not used in a scientific context. Quantum electro-dynamic effects are "only" theory after all too (predictions from same being testable to about 1 part in a billion and verified), or electrons themselves for that matter.

Edited March 2, 2007 by Lokey

[Gorgon]

"this is the problem with society, people like gorgon are running off at the mouth based on reports by political organizations (IPCC) and news media."

Thats a little convenient don't you think, whenever you don't like the message the organisation magically becomes 'political', a claim for which, incidentially, you make no explanation. From what I can glean of your political lean though, the UN affiliation alone is damning evidence.

Edited March 2, 2007 by Gorgon

[Guard Dog]

clearly an attempt to discredit gore to disrupt any movement on reducing environmental damage and to keep him from reentering politics. Civil War II is going to be awesome!

Civil War II huh? Tell me Weiser, are you willing to kill me and my family simply because we have different political beliefs than you and yours? Maybe you should think about that before going on about how "awesome" it will be. I'd pass that comment off as a joke but you have made it before.

[Guard Dog]

Mars Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming, Scientist Says

Kate Ravilious

for National Geographic News

 

February 28, 2007

Simultaneous warming on Earth and Mars suggests that our planet's recent climate changes have a natural

Edited March 2, 2007 by Guard Dog

[kirottu]

Article This is an excerpt. Click the link for the rest. But the genreral idea is right here. Of course Gore would probably have you believe the global warming on Mars is man made as well. Caused by emissions from those non-energy efficient rovers NASA and JPL have sent there.

 

I think those who blame solely human actions are as shortsighted as those who think it

[Gorgon]

Again I have to point out that science is not about link contests. It is quite clear that there are disenting views on global warming, but it is also equally clear that a growing consensus now links human activity to global warming.

[Sand]

That is why I think that human civilization is partly to blame but not the sole contributor. The warming and cooling of Earth has gone through cycles over many many many million of years and well, the Earth and life on this planet has survived through these cycles. We may be the cause of the current warming trend, but it is nothing that wouldn't happen on its own if at a slower pace.

[Walsingham]

"

prove it. i love such unfounded statements. so easy to shoot down.

 

even at that, maybe roughly 90% of those that publish, or are funded, but that does not mean 90% believe as such. many that disagree are afraid to for fear of being black-listed. more and more are coming forward every day to point out how ludicrous, sometimes outright fraudulent, the so-called "science" regarding this topic is."

 

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=116511

http://environment.newscientist.com/articl...-humankind.html

 

Why don't you prove that there is widespread bullying of scientist who refuse to go along with the notion now ?

 

I'm being a little prejudiced, but the BPost is hardly reknowned for its journalistic integrity.

[Gorgon]

Its not the newspaper, it's the report, i'm sure there are dozens of other news site sources.

[Walsingham]

Its not the newspaper, it's the report, i'm sure there are dozens of other news site sources.

 

I must offer my apology. i confess I did not bother to look closely at it. Won't happen again.