This game can work. Please no forced characters though. Thanks.

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Tell that to the facehugger attached to your face...

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It's the chestbursters you have to worry about!

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They're the awesome ones. Lets see what you had for dinner.

Predators won't be in our game.  Our game only covers the Alien(s) license.

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Thats good. I like the Predator but they need to stay out of the Alien universe.

Few games have matched the quality of AvP2. And that game wouldn't have been the same without them preds. It just needs to be done right.

 

That said, I'm fine with an Aliens-only RPG. Maybe Josh can clarify if there are yet any plans to have it be set around the same time as Aliens as opposed to the cringe-worthy AvP movie timeline? Maybe after the events of Alien Resurrection?

Well, as much as I love AVP and AVP2... I think it'll be nice to have an alien only game.

 

I mean, how many times can you really have all three races in one game?

 

And to be honest, what could a pred add to an rpg other than a mid-boss character?

Few games have matched the quality of AvP2. And that game wouldn't have been the same without them preds. It just needs to be done right.

 

That said, I'm fine with an Aliens-only RPG. Maybe Josh can clarify if there are yet any plans to have it be set around the same time as Aliens as opposed to the cringe-worthy AvP movie timeline? Maybe after the events of Alien Resurrection?

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I don't think AvP as a game or a movie is being considered as a point of reference. Josh said that the Alien movies were mandated canon and could not be contradicted, and I bet the AvP movies contradict the Alien movies at some point. Wasn't the AvP movie a "present day" thing?

 

Having it take place post-Resurrection seems logical, but they could just as easily have the game take place during the 60-year period between Alien and Aliens, or the period between Aliens and Alien 3. I think it was implied that there were no Aliens between 3 and Resurrection, hence they had to clone Ripley to create them, so that period would not work.

"A complaint that Josh would try too hard to get some obscure fact about Aliens right seems just as absurd as a complaint that Star Trek didn't try hard enough to get the andorians correct. One shows a fixation on detail that is unreasonable, and the other shows an unwillingness to invest in a setting in the first place, or at least a belief that the setting isn't worth getting into. That Josh knows the formal names of Predators doesn't indicate that he's going to overdo it."

 

bet is that you can name a d&d game or even a star wars game that mighta' been better w/o slavish devotion to source material... and if you can't, then you ain't been following these games very close. wotc forces developers to follow canon... but we suspect that josh would follow anyways... as much as he hates wotc limits on morality n' such.

 

and why is you so confident in josh? we likes josh, but he came into nwn2 very late in project, so he has almost 0 impact on story stuff... but does iwd2 makes you confident in josh? what other game you got to base confidence 'pon?

 

josh gets some good ideas, but we sees him post 'bout frs and fo and other settings and we worries 'bout him sometimes...

 

ultimately what we is saying is that in our estimation, the setting josh gots to work with has some pretty terrible source material, and limiting self based on that material would be a mistake. trying to stay faithful to history and real world events is a mistake when building a story... how much more of a mistake is such slavish devotion when you is talking'bout faithfulness to d&d or aliens crap?

 

HA! Good Fun!

Wasn't the AvP movie a "present day" thing?

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Yep. 2004 to be exact.

 

It would be kinda odd to set an Aliens RPG during the time period of the most hated movie to feature the aliens.

Wasn't the AvP movie a "present day" thing?

Yep. That's why I'm asking. My bad, however, I didn't remember that, fortunately, the AvP movies aren't part of the Alien or Predator canon.

 

I think it was implied that there were no Aliens between 3 and Resurrection, hence they had to clone Ripley to create them, so that period would not work.

It hasn't really been established what happened between 3 and rez, at least as far as I know. We know that a lot of things happened in the interim, though (the WY "was absorbed by Wal-Mart", the USMC replaced by the USM, Paris gets nuked probably during this period as well) but we don't know why, how, or when. It's entirely possible that there were aliens involved. We don't know how the military got hold of Ripley's DNA after she dove into the furnace, either. As long as they have a neat and tidy game ending, I think it could work in that period without problems.

Edited December 22, 200619 yr by 213374U

I'm not convinced that having greater-than-normal attention paid to obscure and arcane knowledge about the setting poisons the game.

 

A complaint that Josh would try too hard to get some obscure fact about Aliens right seems just as absurd as a complaint that Star Trek didn't try hard enough to get the andorians correct. One shows a fixation on detail that is unreasonable, and the other shows an unwillingness to invest in a setting in the first place, or at least a belief that the setting isn't worth getting into. That Josh knows the formal names of Predators doesn't indicate that he's going to overdo it.

 

I certainly expect Sawyer to know what he's doing when he oversees an Alien game, and that entails getting intimately acquainted with the setting. Are we going to demand that of him and then recoil when he shows that he knows something relatively obscure and unimportant? It's not like he's going to come on the forums and spill everything important and central and relevant to the game, but that he bothered to dig into the material enough to know unimportant formal names and titles is in no way indicative of an approach to making the game that makes such things important. If anything, it shows that he's acquainted with those concepts that will best serve the game, because if he knows the arcana, he probably knows the important stuff pretty well too.

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People who don't pay attention to details won't see them. Hence, it won't bother them one bit.

 

People who enjoy rich/coherent/consistent game worlds will find that and will be pleased as well.

 

I reckon it must be hard to be creative when your public demands something they already played a million times in the past.

 

You guys worry me a lot. Let's not make another Frankenstein monster, please.

Few games have matched the quality of AvP2. And that game wouldn't have been the same without them preds. It just needs to be done right.

 

I agree...I loved AvP2...not because of the Predator, though...

 

I played the Marine campaign first...

 

I liked the atmosphere they built up. I liked the fact they showed the first xenomorph late in the game, after building a lot of tension.

 

I didn't like the last part of the game, though. There wasn't enough storytelling. Without story, there is no sense of immersion or any real involvement.

I think detail is great and adds to the immerson, I don't think however that the mythology created by whoever happened to own the Alien/Predator licence at the time is necessarily that fantastic.

and why is you so confident in josh? we likes josh, but he came into nwn2 very late in project, so he has almost 0 impact on story stuff... but does iwd2 makes you confident in josh? what other game you got to base confidence 'pon?

Honestly, I don't really have much good reason, I guess. I first came to these forums and I was working out Van Buren for PnP and I asked him, sometimes obnoxiously (staying up and waiting for Ambien to kick in, you can get a bit delirious) and he was more than willing to give me perspective on the game that I couldn't find anywhere else. So maybe I'm biased. There were things about IWD2 that I thought akward, certainly, I never finished the game because the ending was too damned hard. But he hasn't yet made a game that hasn't been worth the time I invested in.

 

On the other hand, I try and stay as rosy as I can about games in development. Had I been around when Fallout or Toejam & Earl or Duke Nukem 3D had been ID, I would have fostered a few doubts about them, but they still would have ended up as some of my favorite games when they had come out. Micheal Bay is so bad, I wrote off Black Hawk Down before it came out, but it turned out to be good in spite of the odds. And so I always try and hold out hope for these things.

 

I'm not saying that the Alien game will be definitely awesome, there are plenty of counter-examples of games that seemed like sure hits but turned out to be crap. But it seems presumptuous to me that this minor display of arcane knowledge would be seen as boding ill for the game, when we know so little about it.

 

ultimately what we is saying is that in our estimation, the setting josh gots to work with has some pretty terrible source material, and limiting self based on that material would be a mistake. trying to stay faithful to history and real world events is a mistake when building a story... how much more of a mistake is such slavish devotion when you is talking'bout faithfulness to d&d or aliens crap?

Oh, definitely. You should stop by No Mutants Allowed sometime. Did u know that Fallout 2 is not actually a Fallout game? It totally mangled canon. It wasn't tru.

 

But again, acknowledging canon doesn't necessarily enslave one to it. They can make their own story without contradicting existing ones, especially if the Alien movies are all we're considering.

 

It hasn't really been established what happened between 3 and rez, at least as far as I know. We know that a lot of things happened in the interim, though (the WY "was absorbed by Wal-Mart", the USMC replaced by the USM, Paris gets nuked probably during this period as well) but we don't know why, how, or when. It's entirely possible that there were aliens involved. We don't know how the military got hold of Ripley's DNA after she dove into the furnace, either. As long as they have a neat and tidy game ending, I think it could work in that period without problems.

That's true, but I wouldn't be surprised if they went with a KOTOResque angle with this, that is, taking place in the same universe as other Alien stuff, containing all the same elements, but completely removed story-wise from it, and totally self-contained. We'll see how it goes.

 

For the record, I'd prefer if they didn't have it take place on Earth. The classic Alien setup is "in space, no one can hear you scream". It's all about being isolated and on your own against an insane enemy. That'd be harder to pull off on Earth.

and yeah, knowing space jockey actual name and spellings is not stuff known by people who has seen the alien movies... and we can't think of anybody that would bothers to use the "proper" names of the three non-human races from the alien universe in a casual conversation when talking 'bout aliens stuff.

But this isn't a casual conversation between "people"; it's a conversation between a lead designer and fans that are probably interested in the subject of the thread. I wouldn't have characters in game go off with exposition using "proper" names for these guys. People in the setting understand the bad guys as aliens, and I don't think I've ever heard anyone talk about predators specifically as "predators" much less "Yautja".

 

The established stuff associated with the aliens license is a mess. Some of it's cool, some of it's lame, and a lot of it contradicts other things. There are some fundamental things about aliens that "makes" them, but there's a lot of extra stuff that either detracts from potential interest or is irrelevant.

 

I think it's weird that you still believe I'm "slavishly" devoted to things considering the modifications I proposed (or implemented) for IWD2 and the huge amount of stuff that I was changing or outright ignoring for The Black Hound and F3.

Micheal Bay is so bad, I wrote off Black Hawk Down before it came out

 

What do those two things have to do with each other?

That's true, but I wouldn't be surprised if they went with a KOTOResque angle with this, that is, taking place in the same universe as other Alien stuff, containing all the same elements, but completely removed story-wise from it, and totally self-contained. We'll see how it goes.

Yep. I'd much rather not have any of the characters (or immediate events) from the movies play a significant role in the game. New stuf plz.

 

 

For the record, I'd prefer if they didn't have it take place on Earth. The classic Alien setup is "in space, no one can hear you scream". It's all about being isolated and on your own against an insane enemy. That'd be harder to pull off on Earth.

That's my preference as well. I was just pointing out those events to show that the period between 3 and rez is full of unknowns.

 

 

I don't think I've ever heard anyone talk about predators specifically as "predators" much less "Yautja".

I don't remember about the comics, but I remember in AvP that in the first pred mission, you could hear the Marines CO through the video screens go like "okay marines, looks like we've got another predator creature in here", after you gutted a few of them. I'm not sure but I think there were references to "predators" in some of the notes you could read in AvP2, too. How significant is that in regards to the knowledge that humans have of preds in the AvP canon is open for discussion.

Micheal Bay is so bad, I wrote off Black Hawk Down before it came out

 

What do those two things have to do with each other?

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Wait wait, I was thinking of Jerry Bruckheimer. They're practically the same person

 

Yep. I'd much rather not have any of the characters (or immediate events) from the movies play a significant role in the game. New stuf plz.

There's always room for Bishop

That's true, but I wouldn't be surprised if they went with a KOTOResque angle with this, that is, taking place in the same universe as other Alien stuff, containing all the same elements, but completely removed story-wise from it, and totally self-contained. We'll see how it goes.

 

Hopefully not...I played KOTOR for more than 30 hours. When KOTOR 2 came out, I thought I would enjoy it, but after 2 hours, I had the feeling of re-playing the same game all over again.

The gameplay mechanics was way too similar.

 

There is value in freshness.

 

For the record, I'd prefer if they didn't have it take place on Earth. The classic Alien setup is "in space, no one can hear you scream". It's all about being isolated and on your own against an insane enemy. That'd be harder to pull off on Earth.

 

Earth would be a poor choice indeed.

I think the best opportunity is to try to imagine what the terraforming colony did after they discovered the egg chamber. The idea being that they sent some eggs to another location for analysis.

I think the best opportunity is to try to imagine what the terraforming colony did after they discovered the egg chamber. The idea being that they sent some eggs to another location for analysis.

In Aliens? There was a scene in the Director's Cut that showed how they came across the crashed ship. Ripley warned Weyland-Utani about the ship, but instead of getting the terraformers away from it, they sent a guy into it (Newt's dad), who promptly got Kaned. He was then sent back to the Colony, and judging from the specimens at the colony, they sent a large force of people to also get Kaned, and the people who didn't holed themselves up and were eventually overran and put in the reactor hive to be incubated. I'm not sure how the Queen ended up in the reactor, though. It's hard to say whether she came out of the Kaned terraformers or existed prior to their discovery. Probably the former. I don't know the length of time it took for the Marines and Ripley to make it to the planet.

 

But seeing how the fate of the colony is a foregone conclusion, putting the game on that planet probably isn't the best idea. And the reactor overload probably destroyed the derelict ship, so they're going to have to set it on some other planet.

I think the best opportunity is to try to imagine what the terraforming colony did after they discovered the egg chamber. The idea being that they sent some eggs to another location for analysis.

In Aliens? There was a scene in the Director's Cut that showed how they came across the crashed ship. Ripley warned Weyland-Utani about the ship, but instead of getting the terraformers away from it, they sent a guy into it (Newt's dad), who promptly got Kaned. He was then sent back to the Colony, and judging from the specimens at the colony, they sent a large force of people to also get Kaned, and the people who didn't holed themselves up and were eventually overran and put in the reactor hive to be incubated. I'm not sure how the Queen ended up in the reactor, though. It's hard to say whether she came out of the Kaned terraformers or existed prior to their discovery. Probably the former. I don't know the length of time it took for the Marines and Ripley to make it to the planet.

 

But seeing how the fate of the colony is a foregone conclusion, putting the game on that planet probably isn't the best idea. And the reactor overload probably destroyed the derelict ship, so they're going to have to set it on some other planet.

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Yes, I do know the context...

 

It's a terraforming colony...they probably didn't have an extensive science staff...they reported their finding to Weyland-Yutani...Weyland-Yutani said: "Ship some of these eggs to our Science Complex for further analysis."...the local Science Officer complied with that request, but decided to run his own experiments since there were many eggs to work with...what happened to the terraforming colony after that was pictured in Aliens...

 

Now, imagine what happened with those eggs that were shipped to the Weyland-Yutani Science Complex at a secret location...

 

Also remember that LV-426 is destroyed at the end of Aliens, so, if it were to take place on LV-426, it would have to take place before the events narrated in Aliens...

Yeah, but if Weyland-Utani got shipped eggs, why would they send Paul Reiser to get some? Was it all just an elaborate scheme to get rid of Ripley? Why couldn't they have just sent her off on a ship with sabotaged escape pods and an automatic self-destruct?

 

:ph34r:

 

And if they had it take place on LV-426 before Aliens took place, they'd still have to have a foregone conclusion in order to avoid contradicting the movie. Nobody was there before the terraformers. The air wasn't breathable before. It seemed in Aliens as if Weyland-Utani wasn't completely aware of the ship being there, else why would they wait until Ripley got back to send the colonists to their deaths? Why didn't they do that 20 or 40 years prior?

 

So if the game was going to take place on LV-426, then it would have to wrap up in a way that would leave Alien and Aliens completely untouched, and that would be hard to do.

Edited December 22, 200619 yr by Pop

Yeah, but if Weyland-Utani got shipped eggs, why would they send Paul Reiser to get some? Was it all just an elaborate scheme to get rid of Ripley? Why couldn't they have just sent her off on a ship with sabotaged escape pods and an automatic self-destruct?

 

Well, guess what, we don't know what happened to those other eggs.

 

Yet, because Weyland-Yutani had to send Ripley back to LV-426, we know they certainly caused the complete destruction of the Science Complex they were sent to.

 

What happened between the time those eggs reached the Weyland-Yutani Science Complex and the time the Weyland-Yutani Science Complex was destroyed could be the topic of a game or two...

And if they had it take place on LV-426 before Aliens took place, they'd still have to have a foregone conclusion in order to avoid contradicting the movie. Nobody was there before the terraformers. The air wasn't breathable before. It seemed in Aliens as if Weyland-Utani wasn't completely aware of the ship being there, else why would they wait until Ripley got back to send the colonists to their deaths? Why didn't they do that 20 or 40 years prior?

 

So if the game was going to take place on LV-426, then it would have to wrap up in a way that would leave Alien and Aliens completely untouched, and that would be hard to do.

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Agreed, I would not situate any of the new games on LV-426.

It really depends on what the premise of the game is going to be. The "We've lost transmission from planet X and we need you to investigate" is as good as I can think of right now, although it cuts really close to Aliens' premise. I loved the idea of the derelict spacecraft on LV-426, but I think Obsidian can come up with another source for the Aliens somewhere that is just as mysterious and compelling, that players will have to investigate for themselves. Perhaps some other remnant or relic of the space jockeys.

 

But please, no ancient temples <_<

 

btw, I made an avatar of that armored facehugger that Josh posted (note the lulzy location) seems a little small, though.

It really depends on what the premise of the game is going to be. The "We've lost transmission from planet X and we need you to investigate" is as good as I can think of right now, although it cuts really close to Aliens' premise.

 

Yes, it does. But it opens up a theater for Weyland-Yutani, xenomorphs and Colonial Marines.

 

Anyway, it's just one idea among many possibilities.

 

I'll brainstorm some more and find another angle.

 

Finding another The Derelict on another planet would seem phony.

It really depends on what the premise of the game is going to be. The "We've lost transmission from planet X and we need you to investigate" is as good as I can think of right now, although it cuts really close to Aliens' premise.

 

Yes, it does. But it opens up a theater for Weyland-Yutani, xenomorphs and Colonial Marines.

 

Finding another The Derelict on another planet would seem phony.

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There are plenty of different angles you start the game off with. Treachery by "the Company" is perhaps the only theme that is persistent across the movies, novels and comics (not counting Aliens vs GL or Batman lol). The whole Alien-verse which has been created is totally ripe for the whole industrial espionage angle. Weyland-Yutani must have enemies and competitors, even the governments of Earth.