NWN2: Forumite Impressions

[Deraldin]

Enemies can and do open doors. I'm not sure how consistently they'll do it though. And in some maps the doors are left open exactly for this purpose.

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I've seen thugs, orcs and city watchmen all open doors in order to get at me. Usually they happen to arrive just in time to turn the battle against me. :angry:

[Pop]

Furthermore, if your character dies and is 'resurrected' after the battle, all his maladies (e.g. diseases, lowered ability scores) go away; in some ways it is even benefitial to have your characters die. Even if the player doesn't actively exploit this, he/she will be affected; this contributes to the mechanism where as long as you have healing spells, every battle you can fight with full health and full status, just a few spells less .... unless you rest! Which you can do any time!

 

I try to resist this and refuse to rest in a dungeon until it's been cleared. Since NWN2's obviously been designed otherwise, this makes the game really challenging... or it would be if it weren't for the 2nd flaw:

 

If you are fighting and, say, only Neeshka is left. She hightails from her enemies, naturaly, adnt hey follow - what the, hey? Your companions, who have been left 'dead' in that room which is now vacated by enemies, have revived! Neeshka comes back, and the companions destroy the enemy. Really, really stupid.

 

I think if they wanted to have the auto-resurrecting characters, they needed to make it a bit more skimpy; i.e. as long as any one character is in combat, nobody can be resurrected; resurrected characters retain all status maladies; resting isn't quite so easy (at the very least requiring items). But then, what are you gonna do? Casual players wont like it.

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Therein lies the rub. I get the sense that resting is way more powerful and useful than it should be (if they hadn't made it automatic full-heal and added a random encounter or two, it would have been much more balanced) but the only maps you can't rest in are a few, small basement-type areas with no more than 2 or 3 battles. Making, say, the orc caves a place where you couldn't rest would have just made it a pain in the ass. Most people would just leave the area to rest. The problem with NWN2 is that it has these big dungeons, and making rest impossible is unfeasible, even if it would be preferrable.

 

However, it's not something that can't be fixed. I remember NWN1 having many of the same issues (except that, uh, you actually died sometimes) but they amended the system for the expansions and balanced it out a bit. I have no doubt they'll do the same here.

[Darque]

I had two groups of 5+ orcs come into a battle I was having with about 5-6 more.... you can guess how it ended.

 

Why oh why are the enemies smarter than my own NPCs?

[Deraldin]

I had two groups of 5+ orcs come into a battle I was having with about 5-6 more.... you can guess how it ended.

 

Why oh why are the enemies smarter than my own NPCs?

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I had 6 thugs attack me just after I started beating up on the first group of 6. The orcs I can handle, but when you have 12 thugs attacking you and every single one of them is getting sneak attacks...

[Darque]

Ouch

[Pop]

Other people's AI must be a lot smarter than mine

 

For example, in the later parts of the game I had come across a lich and a bunch of vampires. They wiped me out a few times, cause of the lich's fear aura, but eventually I just ran a guy out, and about half of the vampires took the bait, running to my character into the next room, but the rest of the undead just sat there. I was able to kick the vamps' ass, rest up and prepare, and then wipe up the rest.

 

Divide and conquer It's wierd, I've certainly experienced the swarming tendencies of the enemy AI, but I haven't seen them run to fight when the fighting wasn't in their direct field of vision. I think the difference might have been, especially in the earlier fights against duergar and such, that the enemies are programmed to seek you out when you enter a certain radius, and other enemies are programmed to fight only when you directly come across them.

 

My big stupid battle was

against that pit fiend who fights at Shandra's farm. Even after I killed him, his fiendish minions kept teleporting in until I couldn't fight them anymore :angry: they kept teleporting in even after I was dead.

that was tough. Better the second time around, though.

 

I had 6 thugs attack me just after I started beating up on the first group of 6. The orcs I can handle, but when you have 12 thugs attacking you and every single one of them is getting sneak attacks...   

Oh yeah, that whole level blew <_< the description said "effortless", too! :angry: I think the trick was to cast light on my people, and the fights seemed to go better.

Edited November 10, 2006 by Pop

[Deraldin]

My big stupid battle was

against that pit fiend who fights at Shandra's farm. Even after I killed him, his fiendish minions kept teleporting in until I couldn't fight them anymore :angry: they kept teleporting in even after I was dead.

that was tough. Better the second time around, though.

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That was a really tough fight. I can't remember how I did it, but I think I got lucky with a couple insta-death type spells from Qara.

[Tigranes]

I wasn't claiming rest should not be allowed, Pop; that was just my way of making the game challenging. There's nothing like having no spells, and at level 9 being down to your half-health thief with acid flasks and somehow pulling through. That was the joy of IE games and Fallout that has been lost now.

 

In larger dungeons there could be designated rest spots, or possibility of random encounters, or HOTU-style "light fire" mechanism. Not uninterrupted unlimited rests anywhere and everywhere that solves everything, yay!.

 

With doors, so far the AI has been good. I have very low ~7fps indoors until I get more ram next week, so in a few places I skipped some of the smaller rooms (another complaint about nwn2 really; it doesnt make me search every room like I had to with NWN, BGs, IWDs, because they just arent interesting, at all. Half of them dont even have a container in them.).... lo and behold, when I was fighting an encounter I would be sandwiched by some thugs from the back, in the rooms I had passed!

 

Mages die fast.

[Pidesco]

By the way, I'm experiencing Deekin for the first time, and I thought he was quite funny. As he appears to have no voice set in NWN2, I kept picturing a Cespenar type voice but I don't know if that's accurate. I hope not, as Cespenar's voice started to grate after a while.

[Deraldin]

By the way, I'm experiencing Deekin for the first time, and I thought he was quite funny. As he appears to have no voice set in NWN2, I kept picturing a Cespenar type voice but I don't know if that's accurate. I hope not, as Cespenar's voice started to grate after a while.

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Actually a Cespenar voice would be a good comparison except it's more annoying.

[Tigranes]

I liked Cespenar's voice more than Deekin's.

[Deraldin]

I liked Cespenar's voice more than Deekin's.

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What do you do with so many rocks? Need for head? )

[Pidesco]

Does Deekin's voice show up later in NWN2?

[alanschu]

If one of your fighters dies in BG in that first room, you're at a significant disadvantage in the next two. If you don't have a raise dead spell + plenty of healing or a resurrection spell on hand, you're in for a steep challenge. You'll have to high-tail it back to a temple. In NWN2, provided you get far enough away from the people in the next room, death is no problem even if you don't have the spells to remedy it. Poison and disease become bigger issues than death. Doesn't that seem a little off?

 

You see, all it looks like this decision has resulted in is eliminating the tedious journey back to the temple. And if someone gets gibbed (permanently killed), for most players it simply means it's time to reload.

 

Yes, some people may be inconvenienced by it, but since (as you stated) all it really does is eliminate the need to waste time running back to a temple, it doesn't necessarily add all that much to the game if you stop and think about it. The only situation where it would make an impact is if you don't have access to a temple (say you're stuck in a dungeon). At which point, it becomes exceptionally easy for a game player to put themselves in a situation that becomes unwinnable. Especially if they are an inexperienced game player and have a bad habit of overwriting saved games!

 

In the end, I think it results in less frustrated gamers, as I'm guessing only a small minority will consider it to truly be a detriment.

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

Night, I thought  the two of us settled this on an earlier page. LOL

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We have, but you and others have not.

[Colrom]

Lots of little bugs with the interface and graphics. Here's some:

* the number of items, like healing potions, accessed by a quickslot frequently reads "0" and then later shows the correct number.

* once I had a duplicate dagger show up in someone's inventory - I sold one of them. Later the duplicate disappeared.

* a sideways barrel in the first orc caves has no graphics - just a black outline

* the floor traps in the first orc caves don't trigger

* there are some levitating stones near hanging over the cliff on the path out of Fort Locke.

 

I haven't figured out how - if at all - the quickcast spell display shows whether a spell can still be used or not or how many castings remain. Doesn't seem to.

 

Having fun with the game, but these things break the immersion.

Edited November 10, 2006 by Colrom

[alanschu]

I haven't figured out how - if at all - the quickcast spell display shows whether a spell can still be used or not or how many castings remain. Doesn't seem to.

 

Are you talking about the quickspell list you get by hitting F?

[Tigranes]

Alan, you have a godo point with the temple thing; usually, I would just use the Ctrl+R cheat to revive my companions when I have cleared the dungeon. The problem is when after every fighti nside a single dungeon they revive, or even DURING fights. I had fun with BG2 system but I'm not advocating that - I listed some of my suggestions last page. It doesn't lend to immersion, or a sense of danger and thus fun, to the game to have people revive so quickly and anywhere. I would prefer them to script it using areas - if you die once in one area, then you only revive after a map transition. Much better.

[alanschu]

Your party members should not be reviving during fights. I have never seen that happen, unless my Cleric casts a resurrection spell on them or something.

 

I disagree about it not lending itself to fun. I had a blast playing through the OC. And I don't find it to be a big break in the immersion. At least not any more of a break compared to running back to a temple to revive the person.

Edited November 10, 2006 by alanschu

[Tigranes]

Your party members will resurrect if there are no enemies within a set radius. That 'set radius' is not particularly large. If you ever find yourself with only one alive party member running for his life, you will be sure that your companions, with no enemies left around them, will resurrect.

 

In fact, just now it's the only way I got past

the squire vigil assassins, since Sandra had noe quipment (useless) and I am a mage.

 

 

So far I'm having a lot of fun as well, alan, but I must say you are not addressing the issue fairly when you keep comparing it to "running back to the temple". As I say, nobody is suggesting that. But wouldn't you agree that companions should nto revive while anybody is in combat, at the very least?

[Pidesco]

I was creating a Warlock just for fun, and I noticed that there isn't an option to save your character until you're actually in a module. Adding a button to save your character during character creation would be an easy and welcome addition, I think.

[Dark_Raven]

At least you can export it easily once it is done and the game is rolling.

[alanschu]

So far I'm having a lot of fun as well, alan, but I must say you are not addressing the issue fairly when you keep comparing it to "running back to the temple". As I say, nobody is suggesting that. But wouldn't you agree that companions should nto revive while anybody is in combat, at the very least?

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Ah, I have had that happen before.

 

However, if you feel like exploiting bugs that allow companions revive because you lure away the combatants, then I don't really see what there is to address.

 

And people certainly were suggesting that they'd rather run back to the temple. Go back and read Pop's post. The issue was not about people reviving during a fight, but people reviving period, so I'm also not sure how I wouldn't be addressing the issue, when you seem to have confused the issue. You mentioned the revival of people during fights as an annotation to your complaint about reviving in general.

Edited November 10, 2006 by alanschu

[taks]

I haven't figured out how - if at all - the quickcast spell display shows whether a spell can still be used or not or how many castings remain. Doesn't seem to.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

if it is in the quickcast menu (hit "f"), you can cast it. multiple copies of the same spell show a little number in the corner of the icon. in your spellbook (hit "b"), however, you are correct, it is impossible to tell from what i gather.

 

i don't know how this works with sorcerors, though i would expect all of your spells are shown, with the same number in each.

 

taks

[Volourn]

"And that's not all to say that NWN2 is a cakewalk."

 

Eh? But, it is. The game is one of the easiest games I've played. Easier than TOEE, and quite possibly even easier than the KOTORs. There is simply a lack of challenge. Of course, there are a couple of exemptions to that rule.

 

Quite frankly, I think a character should die at 0hp (or -10hp) and be done with it. I doubt most players would cry about that.