Gamespot down on Dark Messiah

[Morgoth]

If a game doesn't have a good story to it then there is just no point in playing it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wrong.

 

But we all know your attitude towards gaming, Hades.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Correct.

 

Simple jumping and kicking and blah blah blah is pretty boring. One of the reasons why I don't bother with normal FPS games. Absolutely detested Halo. If a game doesn't have an engaging story it just doesn't grab my attention enough to play it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, I detested HALO too. Because there's no joy and reward in shooting, running, shooting. DM though is more than that.

Story is just one aspect that keeps the player motivated. DM though keeps me motivated through it's innovative gameplay.

People also love to play football, poker and what not. MMO don't have stories as well, still millions of people play it.

[Sand]

But those people aren't me. Story is the main motivation why I do anything to tell the truth. From going to the store to playing a game. If I can't find a story that engages me I am pretty lethargic.

[Morgoth]

But those people aren't me.  Story is the main motivation why I do anything to tell the truth.  From going to the store to playing a game.  If I can't find a story that engages me I am pretty lethargic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's fine. I enjoy good stories too. But at the same time, I also enjoy games that offer me simulation and improvisational gameplay (read: That's what for example HALO is not!) rather than story. If implemented well, they suck me into the world and entertain me as good as Planecape Torment sucked me with it's story into the world. Story is after all just another tool to keep me entertained.

[mkreku]

I think most reviewers just don't see the entire strength of the game. If you just keep running and screaming frontal at your enemy like this is Quake or Doom, you certainly don't see the whole strengths that the game offers you.

Well, I built my character around ordinary melee, and added the basic sneak, bow and magic abilities. With the first level of sneaking, I've so far never failed to sneak up on an enemy and kicking him off a cliff. Or into a spike bed. Or into the next trap. Not that it matters, because you can just run up to him and insta-kill him by kicking him even if he spots you! Sure, it is possible (and even fun) to experiment with the combat system for a while. But you are on the boat (which, by the way, was one of the dumbest moments in the game, when you were supposed to "defend" the plank leading up to the ship and the enemies came.. one by one.. waiting to be kicked off into the water), which is early in the game. Maybe you've just not gotten bored with it yet? How do you know that, by Chapter 9+, you won't feel the same way as me?

 

Well since mkreku is already in Chapter 9, there's no denial he enjoys the game.

No matter if I buy a game or have to review it, I still want to complete it before uninstalling it. Judging by the time it's taken me to get to Chapter 9+, I'll complete it tonight. Truth be told, I'm not really enjoying it, but I want to see the ending.

[Morgoth]

I think most reviewers just don't see the entire strength of the game. If you just keep running and screaming frontal at your enemy like this is Quake or Doom, you certainly don't see the whole strengths that the game offers you.

Well, I built my character around ordinary melee, and added the basic sneak, bow and magic abilities. With the first level of sneaking, I've so far never failed to sneak up on an enemy and kicking him off a cliff. Or into a spike bed. Or into the next trap. Not that it matters, because you can just run up to him and insta-kill him by kicking him even if he spots you! Sure, it is possible (and even fun) to experiment with the combat system for a while. But you are on the boat (which, by the way, was one of the dumbest moments in the game, when you were supposed to "defend" the plank leading up to the ship and the enemies came.. one by one.. waiting to be kicked off into the water), which is early in the game. Maybe you've just not gotten bored with it yet? How do you know that, by Chapter 9+, you won't feel the same way as me?

Hm, I just love the different ways how you can kill enemies. Throwing barrels at them, then run away to lure them into another room while they curse and limp after me is more exciting than just shoot them with a shotgun into the head. Some people think clicking 10 buttons on the interface is what makes combat exciting, but I rather prefer messing arround with the enemies myself without killing them immediately. The game is just build that way to let you improvise.

Edited November 1, 2006 by Morgoth

[Sand]

So, you can Jackie Chan your enemies. I guess i can see the appeal of that.

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

Ok so you and mkreku disagree about the power of the charge kick,kick,..., sounds like I will have to try the game myself to find out =)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Charge + kick + kick + kick makes you a very tired boy.

[mkreku]

It's really more of a football kick (or soccer kick, depending on where you're from)..

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

Well since mkreku is already in Chapter 9, there's no denial he enjoys the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wrong.

 

He is a game reviewer for a European gaming site. Its his job to play through games, even those he doesn't like.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But reviewers are [not amongst my favourite people], I mean that in a professional sense, they're not quite games testers, they're not quite journalists, and they're human being and thus open to bias.

 

Ones opinion of something is never the same as the other.

 

While it's his job to play it, he doesn't want to play it, he doesn't want to like it.

 

That's why his attitude towards the game is poor, and thus i would say from a professional stand point he's as bad a reviewer as any.

 

Edit: Let's keep this from descending into personal attacks, eh?

Edited November 1, 2006 by metadigital

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

But those people aren't me.  Story is the main motivation why I do anything to tell the truth.  From going to the store to playing a game.  If I can't find a story that engages me I am pretty lethargic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's not bad, it's not great, it's made me laugh a few times...

[LoneWolf16]

If a game doesn't have a good story to it then there is just no point in playing it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank god people like you weren't the majority back in the days of the original Mario or Tetris. There wouldn't be a gaming industry.

 

Simple jumping and kicking and blah blah blah is pretty boring.  One of the reasons why I don't bother with normal FPS games.  Absolutely detested Halo.  If a game doesn't have an engaging story it just doesn't grab my attention enough to play it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Personally, I love Halo's story, lore, etc. That's me though.

 

Yeah, I detested HALO too. Because there's no joy and reward in shooting, running, shooting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No reward for you, anyway. Most situations in Halo 1 and 2, depending on the level of difficulty, require a bit more than running and gunning. A tactical approach gets you much farther than charging headlong into a small squad of Elites, firing your rifle and yelling action movie cliches like some lunatic.

 

And yes, we all know....you hate Halo.

 

On Topic: I'll eventually check this game out, through some means, and I'm sure I'll enjoy it for what it is....a simple fantasy hack n' slash.

 

Oh, and I know what ya mean about the kicking, mkreku. I remember just standing at the top of a ramp in the demo and continually kicking an orc down the stairs, giggling like a schoolgirl....then finally just kicking him off the cliff.

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

It's really more of a football kick (or soccer kick, depending on where you're from)..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

oh i've tried it, but that bored me to death and often didn't work too well for me, I often found myself surrounded.

 

When I was fighting the goblins, I was fighting 7 or 8 all at once, it was wicked, you cannot actually kick all 8 you can kick a few and cull the ranks, you smash them with the shield and knock one to the ground but at some point, you have to actually swing the sword, hit the enemy, next thing you know one goblins ran off, you've made so much noise that renforcements are coming.

 

I just don't understand how I am having such a great experience, I even feel challenged, I ran away from the optional cyclops, i mean geez... I don't get how someone could not have fun playing this game... Yet it appears that you've managed to achieve that, because you've gone into the game I believe with the wrong mindset, you neither want to like the game, and people keep thinking of it with an FPS attitude... Mind boggling.

[mkreku]

Then there must be something wrong with my version, because for me it's (I think) four or five enemies at once, max. It's like there's a limitation to the game engine or something. Sometimes there are seemingly more enemies, but only four visible at the same time. But at the exact moment you kick one into some spikes, a new one jumps out of the dark. And it continues that way until you've kicked like 12 enemies into spikes (you'll never know, because corpses disappear into thin air). Never more than four (or five, gaah, not sure!) at the same time though. Weird.

 

But of course, every once in a while I swing my sword (or shoot a fireball) because my "kick energy" is diminished. It regenerates damn fast though so I'll usually end up kicking everyone anyhow.

 

About the improvisation bit (that one of you mentioned earlier): I thought it was cool, in fact that was what I was having most of my high hopes based on when getting this game. But because of the excessive amounts of spike beds, barrels, cliffs, etc. available to you all the time, there's no need to improvise. Everything is laid out before you. It's just.. too much.

 

If they instead had let me try to use the few and hidden aspects of the environment to my advantage (like in one of the preview videos to this game, where they cast ice on the ground and an orc slipped and fell down a cliff), it would have been great. Like, if there had not been obvious spike beds leaning against the walls everywhere, but instead the "spikes" had been built into the environments (for example, a broken window.. a twisted steel fence.. a thorny bush.. anything!) it would have felt like an accomplishment to actually kill someone that way. But when you have a trap/spike bed/camp fire in every direction, it's like you almost can't kick someone without them insta-dying. That just plain sucks and gets old very quickly.

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

Then there must be something wrong with my version, because for me it's (I think) four or five enemies at once, max. It's like there's a limitation to the game engine or something. Sometimes there are seemingly more enemies, but only four visible at the same time. But at the exact moment you kick one into some spikes, a new one jumps out of the dark. And it continues that way until you've kicked like 12 enemies into spikes (you'll never know, because corpses disappear into thin air). Never more than four (or five, gaah, not sure!) at the same time though. Weird.

 

I have a very powerful system, it is possible that they've written some code that helps scale encounters, honestly though I wouldn't lie about it, hard as hell to do, was the same when I fought the orcs on the island. I'll see if I can get a screenshot and post it... I agree where undead are concerned they do just appear to keep coming, out of nowhere, but that's the nature of undead in the game.

 

But of course, every once in a while I swing my sword (or shoot a fireball) because my "kick energy" is diminished. It regenerates damn fast though so I'll usually end up kicking everyone anyhow.

 

That just doesn't work for me, a kick only buys me a second or so to get into open space.

 

About the improvisation bit (that one of you mentioned earlier): I thought it was cool, in fact that was what I was having most of my high hopes based on when getting this game. But because of the excessive amounts of spike beds, barrels, cliffs, etc. available to you all the time, there's no need to improvise. Everything is laid out before you. It's just.. too much.

 

There are alot of items placed in and around the game, spike beds, traps so on... If it makes the game too easy for you don't use them.

 

If they instead had let me try to use the few and hidden aspects of the environment to my advantage (like in one of the preview videos to this game, where they cast ice on the ground and an orc slipped and fell down a cliff), it would have been great. Like, if there had not been obvious spike beds leaning against the walls everywhere, but instead the "spikes" had been built into the environments (for example, a broken window.. a twisted steel fence.. a thorny bush.. anything!) it would have felt like an accomplishment to actually kill someone that way. But when you have a trap/spike bed/camp fire in every direction, it's like you almost can't kick someone without them insta-dying. That just plain sucks and gets old very quickly.

 

They're improvements that are indeed all valid, but i'm certainly not getting instant kills all the time, I had to deal with a bunch of zombies at one point by climbing up a rope getting on a ledge and hitting them with arrows, there were just too many.

 

Most of the time the only instant kills I get are from adrenaline.

 

It's strange, your experience doesn't sound like the same game I am playing...

[Musopticon?]

I think the horrible Swede could be right. I've only played the demo, but I can agree with most of the complaints. I mean, no of the enviromental traps were anything but just that, a set of barrels on a rickety contraption or some block of wood tied to a cuttable rope. And that was everywhere on the level. Same goes for the spike things....what are they even supposed to be? Why not weapon racks, satues with weapons or brazers or something more believable?

 

The kick? Well, I stood next to a chasm and kept pushing f2(which summoned an orc) and f(which kicked the orc down, everytime). Sorta fun in an exhausting way. They could have implemented some kind of countering ability for the enemies, since I could just kick enemies to the precipices and see them fall down. Often I took no damage.

 

This is definetly bargain bin material. And I was originally totally hyped by the team members(Thief modders, ex-LGS folk, goddamned Arkane wonderboys) the concept(fanatsy HL 2 anyone?) and the coverage.

[metadigital]

If nothing else it sounds like a very good proof-of-concept for Fantasy with Havok ... and will provide stimulus (hopefully) that will spur other developers to create better implementations.

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

8 zombies!

 

There was actually 10 in the area... but I only got 8 on screen there are actually 2 right in the back but one is obscuring the other.

 

Sorry not the best screen shot either...

[Pidesco]

That's a pretty cool sword.

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

Yeah it's the Orc Clever, I actually have a cooler looking sword but it does less damage.