Unkillable enemies discussion

[Hassat Hunter]

It's a fight the PC shouldn't have won.

 

Then it was a fight that shouldn't have been there.

 

I bet you LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE Obsidian for Sion, eh?

[Judge Hades]

Actually I didn't. I should have been able to kill him when we first met. Same with Malak on the Leviathon. Both should have been dead by my hand in both those instances. Sion and Malak are both cheesefests. Malak is worse of the two with how Bioware artificially toughened him up on the Star Forge.

Edited September 9, 2006 by Judge Hades

[Hassat Hunter]

So why 200 post on the wherewolf; and no bitching on these 2 cases?

 

There is a Kotor2 General Section; eat out your heart!

[Judge Hades]

FUN BEATS RULES

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

A game that breaks the rules is not fun.

[Judge Hades]

So why 200 post on the wherewolf; and no bitching on these 2 cases?

 

There is a Kotor2 General Section; eat out your heart!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Because I am not particularly fond of Star Wars to begin with.

[Hassat Hunter]

A game that breaks the rules is not fun.

 

A game that forces a 300 page book upon you can expect some Pretty low sales (for good reasons)...

[Judge Hades]

BG2 had pretty good sales.

[Hassat Hunter]

It didn't force you to know the rules though... too bad you DID need to know them more than BG1 though...

 

And if you hate said "cheesy gameplaybreakers" it seems OE is fan of them. Better cancel your NWN2 Special Edition, NWN2 Limited Edition (LS), NWN2 Limited Edition (DS), NWN2 Game of the Year Edition, NWN2 Special Pre-Release goodies pack, NWN2 Collector's Edition, NWN2 regular version and NWN2 DM-Pack Reservations and boycot the crap out of them, no?

 

PS: Kotor2 breaks the rules made for Star Ward D&D by quite alot... 0_0

Edited September 9, 2006 by Hassat Hunter

[Judge Hades]

One game makes them a fan?

[Hassat Hunter]

Well; they used to be Black Isle; not?

 

And I remember a certain skull-collector in PS:T "

[Judge Hades]

Never tried to kill him.

[Hassat Hunter]

You certainly skipped alot of gameplay in RPG's for a RPG-fan... especially if you played through them more times than any "normal" human could possibly do

[Judge Hades]

If someone doesn't try to kill me I don't try to kill them. If I can get extra people to help me in a fight, either through trickery or rallying them through a speech I will. I just don't attack someone because they are there. That would be stupid.

Edited September 9, 2006 by Judge Hades

[Slowtrain]

That skullguy in PS:T annoyed me. Can't remember his name, but I am assuming your talking about the guy in the lower ward who kidnaps Morte.

 

I started down a particular dialogue path with him and once I released it was leading to confrontation I had no way to back out.

 

Then he killed me in a cutscene.

 

GH3Y!

 

ALthough not as bad as some things in other games cause PS:T was an adventure game anyway where one can expect that kind of dribble.

[alanschu]

Hassat, you are comparing apples to oranges here.  First off any DnDer would know to have multiple different weapons in his or her inventory for there are some weapons that are more effective against an enemy than another.  You just don't use a piercing weapon on a skeleton, you use a bludgeoning weapon.  You should know this, but instead you rather make fun and attack like everyone else.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

You want to talk about inconsistency....

[alanschu]

It did exist in BG2.

 

Example (BG2) - At teh asylum, if you had none of the inmates you died instantly.

 

Example (VTM:B) - At the observatory, if you didn't use the doors or run your legs off you died really fast.

 

Each game required to you to fulfil certain conditions before you could "Beat" the boss for that part of the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Never faced Irenicus asylum without the inmates. Never bothered to try because any seasoned adventurer would know how to use good cannon fodder. Also one should know his enemies. If undead, healing spells kill. If fire based, use water and ice based magic. If a dragon, lower its magic resistance then pummel it with spells while the frontliners surround it to beat it down.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

The defense mechanism you are using is rationalization.

 

You see, any seasoned vampire newb knows to listen to vampire dudes that have saved your ass twice, are respected by friend and foe alike, that tell you the futility of fighting the werewolf, and how you should NOT do it.

 

You may have been a "seasoned adventurer" and had the inmates, but it still doesn't change the fact that I had to have them, or Irenicus instantly killed me. Just like I was a "seasoned adventurer" and recognized that when my shots didn't hurt the enemy, I should probably do something else!

 

 

 

Yes, but you didn't need to use an outside source beyond your character's abilities to kill him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So? It's still a gimmick. I suppose it's a "real combat situation" to apply healing and medication to an enemy in order to kill them. Especially when bashing their faces in works perfectly fine for every other case.

 

And you complain about consistency.

Edited September 9, 2006 by alanschu

[Atreides]

Dudes, the werewolf had the game's best armour and occult items. Just get over it.

[Llyranor]

The werewolf is the least of Troika's worries.

[Dark_Raven]

You can't have a handful of crazy mages in your inventory either.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can't?

[Dark_Raven]

You should be grateful the devs gave you a means to kill it.

 

Werewolves, even newbies, can easily kill a lone vampire.

 

It's a fight the PC shouldn't have won.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They can win with trickery which is what you did by tricking it between the doors.

[Spider]

That or you're a Gangrel.  Gangrels are the only vampys that really take down Werewolves in WoD.  That's what Warform+aggdamage is for.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Warform... Isn't that something like level 6 or 7 in protean? So that'd make the gangrel a generation 7 or so vampire. That kind of takes away the "of equal or higher" experience part for the werewolf though.

 

Whithout silver it'd still be a hard fight (although if we have a werewolf of similar power, silver probably won't do much good either).

 

 

 

As for the flamethrower again (not directed at Fenghuang). If we want to get technical here, from a WoD rules perspective it would be pretty much useless against a Werewolf. I don't have the WtA books so I don't remember if fire deals agg to werewolves, but let's say it does. It still doesn't deal very much damage and werewolves can soak aggravated damage unless it's silver. So all the flamethrower would have done is piss the wolf off while his claws (which a vampire without fortitude can't soak) would tear you to pieces.

[Darque]

Werewolves have to make a stamina roll each turn to see if they even take damage from fire. This is BEFORE the damage soak roll even comes into effect.

 

And lets see... Crinos form Garou get +3 stamina (on top of their natural score)

 

So most likely... a flamethrower would just tickle it.

 

Based on "teh rulez" it would be possible to use up your flame thrower and not even score one point of damage to the werewolf.

[Judge Hades]

That sounds ridiculously over powered. Thank goodness that White Wolf decided to ditch the old WoD.

Edited September 9, 2006 by Judge Hades

[Slowtrain]

I did not realize werewolfs were so powerful according to WoD rules. In light if the info in some of the posts here, I have decided that I was wrong about the werewolf being bad game design. Seems OK to me now.

[Spider]

The werewolves aren't overpowered in the old WoD. They can, however, be made into combat machines. So yeah, in man-to-man combat, Werewolves would beat anyother playable creature in the WoD (except possibly mages who could be grossly overpowered).

 

But werewolves also fight tougher enemies than vampires do and they fight a lot more. Werewolf is a much more combat oriented game at the core, they're fighting to prevent the Apocalypse, while Vampire is a game of political intrigue and dealing with being a monster.

 

(in the old WoD anyway, the focus has shifted in the new version)

 

This is why crossing campaigns in the old WoD could be such a pain. The focus on the games were so different and the power levels kinda skewed. Then again, they were never really intended to be played together in the first case, people just did anyway.