'Restoring Deleted Material'='Changing the Story'

[chris the jedi killer]

i dont need the fight between atton and disciple or visas and handmaiden to make me happy.  i do like the idea of atton fighting sion and losing an arm though.  he can get a robo one later...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here's a picture of handmaiden vs visas on malachor 5

handmaiden_vs_visas.bmp

[Wild Storm]

If they were to take those files and 100% alter them for their own story, they would be coming up with an 'original' idea.

It's restoration. Taking what little they are given in the files, make hypothothis about them and putting it back in.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Read the question that I am responding to first. I was answering his question.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And I was answering the basic question of your that it's not restoration.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They are still following someone elses draft, so it would be considered stealing someone elses idea. Plagurism.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In that case, all modding is considered plagerism. And it's not like the team is taking the credit for the story. They are just taking credit for putting it back in.

[DarthMethos]

No. Plagurims is when it

Edited August 16, 2006 by DarthMethos

[kirottu]

No. Plagurims is when it

[Wild Storm]

Plagerism: The act of appropriating the literary composition of another author, or excerpts, ideas, or passages therefrom, and passing the material off as one's own creation.

How can the project be plagerism if they are not passing the material off as their own creation?

[Hassat Hunter]

1. Team Gizka never claims they made the content themselves. It is called "RESTORATION" for a reason. They just replant the cut content back in the game. YES; that will alter the story... filling up plot holes and giving it a bit more sense and back

 

2. NO... If OE decided to cut the stuff for a KOTOR III why would they "vow" that they would love to make a KOTOR3? If it was cut for a sequals purpose; wouldn't they already be hired to make said sequel?

 

3. The fact the sticky is relatively save up there and nobody (LA or OE) ever gave permission to cut down the mod or the publicity to the mod should say enough that they don't think it as plagerism. As Kirottu mentioned I stickied the thread over a year ago; and NEVER got command from upperhand to tear it back down; and as it is still there; the new ones did neither. Hell; they even made ANOTHER mod-project (M4-78) sticky... which would be more 50/50 half-made up; half-OE made content stuff...

[DarthMethos]

I think you do have to spell it out for me. Lol... Which means that a moderator made the sticky. If ObsidianEnt did publically support the team, they should place a link to their thread on the front page. Lol...

 

Wild Storm - You took my words out of context. If you followed the order of replies, you will realizing that I made a 'What if..." comment. Lol...

 

Hassat Hunter - Oky, before we can continue any further, I need to know who wrote the script for KotOR II. Did LucasArts or ObsidianEnt write the script?

 

If ObsidianEnt wrote the script, your comments would be justified. If LucaArts was involved in writting the script, then there are things that I and you don't see.

 

I thought George Lucas was involved with the writting.

 

"It is called "RESTORATION" for a reason..." - Hassat

Too bad they are reverting the game to a previous version of itself. I don't see where people get the word 'Restoration'. Since the final draft was what is released, any other extended story is irellevant.

Edited August 16, 2006 by DarthMethos

[Wild Storm]

If ObsidianEnt wrote the script, your comments would be justified. If LucaArts was involved in writting the script, then there are things that I and you don't see.

 

I thought George Lucas was involved with the writting.

I believe Obsidian wrote the script.

 

And it's obvious that Lucas had no part in it's writing. (Thank God)

Too bad they are reverting the game to a previous version of itself. I don;t see how they are restoring anything relevant. Since the final draft was what is released, any other extended story is irellevant.

Actually the things that are being restored are incredibly relavent. Like the HK Factory. Recently, the New Essential Guide canonized a scene which we never saw because it was cut. This scene was Goto versus the Remote...HOWEVER. What was made canon was the intervention of HK-47 and his replicas.

 

You may think that they are irrelevent but once you listen and read the dialog, then you'll think "Wow, that would actually been awesome to see!". Relavent and just plain "neato" are completley different things.

Edited August 16, 2006 by Wild Storm

[DarthMethos]

I am using some sort of Dialouge Editor and KotORTool to look at the stuff that was edited out. There is a lot to go through.

[Wild Storm]

I am using some sort of Dialouge Editor and KotORTool to look at the stuff that was edited out. There is a lot to go through.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I suggest you skip ahead to the Malachor modules. "

[Zilod]

Once again I have to state this: ****ing K2, messing up with whole Kotor storyline and ruining perfect, complete storyarch with True Siths, ridiculous planet-destroying Nihilus and its uncanon life without force characters like Exile and Nihilus, and forcing non-existant - maybe forever non-existant- K3 to clear everything. Not to forget whole absurd "killing the force" sh*t.

 

Only particularly good thing in K2 was Kreia, one of the best villains ever.

 

Without K2 all would be well <_<

 

ehi.... but Kreia is not a villain!!!!

 

i'm not so harsh with K2, imho is quite elegant even in its handling a thing as destructive as Nihilus...

as Kreia says he's not anymore a man, is a sort of a "natural force of destruction" as can be a black hole so quite plausible imo... i heard of way worse things as siths kitterly destroying planets (or suns?) with big force rays, or jedis shoting down orbital ship (again with sort of force rays... damn i want force rays in k3 )

 

so i found this "way of destruction" way more enjoyable than usual "brute" ones...

 

also i don't see why you are so schandalized by Nihilus, i don't see him very dissimilar than the old starforge... the sith was faster with hunger, but don't forget that the SF decimated an entire civilization, possibily using the same (or very similar) "powers"

 

 

 

for the restoration mod i must say that i'm eager to play it... is more than an year that i'm awaiting it... even if i admit that i have also some "fears"... i really liked TSL and if the mod will totally change the story...

 

eheh anyway i hope it will be for the better

Edited August 16, 2006 by Zilod

[chris the jedi killer]

Nihilius is the rael villian not kreia zilod's right

[SamuraiGaijin]

Nihilius is the rael villian not kreia zilod's right

 

Kreia said she wanted to cause the death of the force - not conquer and rule the galaxy, not create a better order for things, CAUSE THE DEATH OF THE FORCE. She twisted and manipulated everyone to work toward her goal unknowingly in order to eliminate what could have been the source of all life in the galaxy. At a bare minimum, she would have "blinded" the thousands (millions ... billions ... more ???) of force-sensitive sentient (and not-so-sentient) beings throughout the galaxy ... and she's not the villian?

 

Nihilus was just hungry.

[Hassat Hunter]

The story is written by OE....

 

"It is called "RESTORATION" for a reason..." - Hassat

Too bad they are reverting the game to a previous version of itself. I don't see where people get the word 'Restoration'. Since the final draft was what is released, any other extended story is irellevant.

Nope... since there was no time to make this actual "previous version" due to time restrains. If it was a simple task of just *activating* fully completed previous story-elements it wouldn't take so long; would you think?

[kirottu]

I think you do have to spell it out for me. Lol... Which means that a moderator made the sticky. If ObsidianEnt did publically support the team, they should place a link to their thread on the front page. Lol...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah, lol indeed. Are you high or something? If obsidian publically would support this it would be like saying "Kotor 2 was flawed and this was mainly because unreasonable time constraints by Lucasarts". This wont happen ever. If you want to stay in business you don

[Knights&Darths]

Kreia said she wanted to cause the death of the force - not conquer and rule the galaxy, not create a better order for things, CAUSE THE DEATH OF THE FORCE.  She twisted and manipulated everyone to work toward her goal unknowingly in order to eliminate what could have been the source of all life in the galaxy.  At a bare minimum, she would have "blinded" the thousands (millions ... billions ... more ???) of force-sensitive sentient (and not-so-sentient) beings throughout the galaxy ... and she's not the villian?

 

Nihilus was just hungry.

:D hahaha lol, i kind of agree with them though, her intent was to free the galaxy of the influence of the Force, the echo Kreia wanted to create on Malachor would harm just those who are aware of the Force and wouldn't give it up to survive, in a way the choice to die would have been theirs, not hers.

[alanschu]

arguably can we call what generous Team Gizka is working out "original" or "intended", they're stating themselves that some things have to be invented, and though some other things  may have been itended to make it to the final game, the arrangements that have been made make it difficult (as i'm sure Team Gizka is aware of) if not impossible for that material to be put back into place and make sense, or result in a more satisfactory less bashable story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You really couldn't make that argument either. Since the files were designed by Obsidian, the first draft of the story was designed by LA and Obsidian, they would be considered plagerizing (Stealing someone eles 'original' idea, and repackaging it for their own.).

 

Even though the final draft of the story was changed, they would be considered 'stealing' from someone elses concept'.

 

If they were to take those files and 100% alter them for their own story, they would be coming up with an 'original' idea.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's only plagarism if you pass it off as your own work, which Team Gizka is not doing. They're very up front about the fact that this was Obsidian's work.

[Xard]

Moist of the K2 script comes from pen of the almighty Chris Avellone

[Xard]

Lucasarts OK

[Xard]

Kreia said she wanted to cause the death of the force - not conquer and rule the galaxy, not create a better order for things, CAUSE THE DEATH OF THE FORCE.  She twisted and manipulated everyone to work toward her goal unknowingly in order to eliminate what could have been the source of all life in the galaxy.  At a bare minimum, she would have "blinded" the thousands (millions ... billions ... more ???) of force-sensitive sentient (and not-so-sentient) beings throughout the galaxy ... and she's not the villian?

 

Nihilus was just hungry.

:D hahaha lol, i kind of agree with them though, her intent was to free the galaxy of the influence of the Force, the echo Kreia wanted to create on Malachor would harm just those who are aware of the Force and wouldn't give it up to survive, in a way the choice to die would have been theirs, not hers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

A: Kreia is making a choice for whole Galaxy. A choice that may be wrong.

B: There is no proof that Force is insidious god that Kreia believes it to be.

C: Every creature is aware of the Force, that ****ing echo would've killed nearly anyone if they wouldn't be able to severe themselves from the Force

D: Canonically no life without force can exists, Kreia believes otherwise though. So Massive Echo = Apocalypse

E: It may be that Kreia was wrong when it comes to Exile's total unconnect to the force. Exile may still have minimal connection to Force, ie. his/her midichlorians surely did not die. Without those you can't connect back to the Force

 

 

Oh, and Nihilus thing. It is said that Nihilus died and reborned at Malachor V. Reborning stuff DOES NOT belong to Star Wars. Also, at Alderaan there died much more people than in Malachor V. However, it did not become place like Malachor V.

 

He is some sort of ****ing godlike undead.

 

Storyline of Kotor II is still incomplete, that's why there is TSLRP.

 

edit: OE wanted to make content patch(es) that would've put (atleast some of, propably from the ending) curently restored stuff in the game officially, but guess what? LA did not permit it

 

edit2: Ups, tripleposting :">

Edited August 17, 2006 by Xard

[Knights&Darths]

A: Kreia is making a choice for whole Galaxy. A choice that may be wrong.

that's true of course, it is wrong to make choices for others but maybe she was willing to take that responsibility.

B: There is no proof that Force is insidious god that Kreia believes it to be.

that is also true i suppose, there can be no proof that the Force atcually influences our path, nevertheless among the Jedi this is kind of an axiom.

D: Canonically no life without force can exists, Kreia believes otherwise though. So Massive Echo = Apocalypse

life without the Force cannot exist, but it is possible to be deafened to it, that's what it means to be cut off from the Force: to be unable to feel it and use it (Odan-Urr explained the technique to Nomi Sunrider who used it on Ulic Qel-Droma in the Sith War), the Exile willingly let go of the Force, so did Sion in the end. my point is that you can let go of the Force only if you can use it, you cannot let go of something you don't even feel. like Kreia herself says: ":: And these echoes build, and all that can hear them shall become deafened... or die. ::"

E: It may be that Kreia was wrong when it comes to Exile's total unconnect to the force. Exile may still have minimal connection to Force, ie. his/her midichlorians surely did not die. Without those you can't connect back to the Force

the Exile was just deaf to the Force, Kreia helped her hear it again but it could only be done because of the Exile's unique ability to form bonds with anything touched by the Force (even Hanharr, lol), when Kreia helps the Exile feel the Force on Peragus one answer was "But it doesn't feel like it did... it feels like it is coming from across a great distance."

Oh, and Nihilus thing. It is said that Nihilus died and reborned at Malachor V. Reborning stuff DOES NOT belong to Star Wars. Also, at Alderaan there died much more people than in Malachor V. However, it did not become place like Malachor V.

the Jedi were all but extinct when Alderaan was destroyed by the Death Star, no Jedi was on the planet. as for Nihilus being reborn, it's just a figure of speech meaning that he fell to the dark side and assumed the identity of Darth Ninilus.

[Xard]

But Nihilus was anyway totally unconnected to force, so it still violates against G-canon

Edited August 17, 2006 by Xard

[Knights&Darths]

But Nihilus was anyway totally unconnected to force, so it still violates against G-canon

interesting what do you mean Nihilus was "totally unconnected to force"? i don't recall hearing anything like that about him, not once. could you please quote specifically? i always thought of him as a McGuffin character, he's barely mentioned though he's the greatest threat, he never speaks a clear word, everything about him has been gathered from Nihilus' mask, a loading screen or two, something more in Kreia's, Visas' and Tobin's dialogs.

[Xard]

Well, death of the force, black hole in the force etc. It is made so clear that force touches him in no way

[Knights&Darths]

Well, death of the force, black hole in the force etc. It is made so clear that force touches him in no way

if that was the case he wouldn't be able to use the Force, Kreia even says he's more of a spirit than flesh and blood. it is because he learned that Force technique that he is able to act as a black hole in the Force, growing stronger and stronger in the Force even as his hunger consume him.

the way Kreia want to "kill the force" is by an axample for people and the exile is that example, is a model or an "ubermensch", someone that can act as a model and insipre the others around him showing a path, a life free from the force.

that is an interesting way of putting it thought it wouldn't really be "killing the Force", more like denying the "will of the Force", even so how would that cause people to be deafened to the Force? or die?

he is very similar to the exile, its a sort of antagonist and it was created/"drained" by the exile herself (same for Sion and eventually, at the end, even Traya) so yes is an hole in the force as the exile...

here we go deep into suppositions, it is suggested Nihilus learned the Exile's technique to bond with people and that is what in a way explains why he is similar to the Exile and why he suffered the same fate on Malachor. Kreia says that the technique he uses to feed on the Force is something learned instinctually by experiencing its effects first hand, supposedly he used that technique to survive the MSG and preserve his power, then he flew Malachor with the Ravager. Sion is different, he learned to draw his power from pain and kept himself alive, like he does when he battles the Exile.