Kreia's REAL name?

[Ulicus]

My thoughts?

 

Kreia was intended to be Kae and there was originally going to be an "I AM YOUR MOTHER" revelation between Kreia and Brianna. Brianna's whole "becoming a Jedi" thing seemed to echo Luke's - especially with her dialogue:

 

"I want to learn the ways of the Force and become a Jedi like my mother" and whatnot.

 

The way Kreia spoke about Kae made me really suspicious - and at the end of the day, since the only information we have about Kreia and Kae's "different reasons for being exiled" come from Kreia herself, we're able to take that with a pinch of salt.

 

Add that to the fact that Kreia supposedly died "in the Mandalorian Wars" (when Kreia told the Jedi Exile that she was exiled *after* the wars) and that the Jedi Exile cannot even remember Kae, despite her being a very prominant Jedi Master (and having just spoken to Kreia about her "memory blurring techniques") I think it's safe to speculate that Kreia = Kae.

[sion01]

My thoughts?

 

Kreia was intended to be Kae and there was originally going to be an "I AM YOUR MOTHER" revelation between Kreia and Brianna. Brianna's whole "becoming a Jedi" thing seemed to echo Luke's - especially with her dialogue:

 

"I want to learn the ways of the Force and become a Jedi like my mother" and whatnot.

 

The way Kreia spoke about Kae made me really suspicious - and at the end of the day, since the only information we have about Kreia and Kae's "different reasons for being exiled" come from Kreia herself, we're able to take that with a pinch of salt.

 

Add that to the fact that Kreia supposedly died "in the Mandalorian Wars" (when Kreia told the Jedi Exile that she was exiled *after* the wars) and that the Jedi Exile cannot even remember Kae, despite her being a very prominant Jedi Master (and having just spoken to Kreia about her "memory blurring techniques") I think it's safe to speculate that Kreia = Kae.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

THe devs probably cut it.

[Purgatorio]

My thoughts?

 

Kreia was intended to be Kae and there was originally going to be an "I AM YOUR MOTHER" revelation between Kreia and Brianna. Brianna's whole "becoming a Jedi" thing seemed to echo Luke's - especially with her dialogue:

 

"I want to learn the ways of the Force and become a Jedi like my mother" and whatnot.

 

The way Kreia spoke about Kae made me really suspicious - and at the end of the day, since the only information we have about Kreia and Kae's "different reasons for being exiled" come from Kreia herself, we're able to take that with a pinch of salt.

 

Add that to the fact that Kreia supposedly died "in the Mandalorian Wars" (when Kreia told the Jedi Exile that she was exiled *after* the wars) and that the Jedi Exile cannot even remember Kae, despite her being a very prominant Jedi Master (and having just spoken to Kreia about her "memory blurring techniques") I think it's safe to speculate that Kreia = Kae.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is folly to build a theory on something when the available information is lacking in volume,and or validity....

IMO I am glad that part was cut.That is if it was considered in the first place,what a incredibly crappy plot twist that would have been.

[sion01]

My thoughts?

 

Kreia was intended to be Kae and there was originally going to be an "I AM YOUR MOTHER" revelation between Kreia and Brianna. Brianna's whole "becoming a Jedi" thing seemed to echo Luke's - especially with her dialogue:

 

"I want to learn the ways of the Force and become a Jedi like my mother" and whatnot.

 

The way Kreia spoke about Kae made me really suspicious - and at the end of the day, since the only information we have about Kreia and Kae's "different reasons for being exiled" come from Kreia herself, we're able to take that with a pinch of salt.

 

Add that to the fact that Kreia supposedly died "in the Mandalorian Wars" (when Kreia told the Jedi Exile that she was exiled *after* the wars) and that the Jedi Exile cannot even remember Kae, despite her being a very prominant Jedi Master (and having just spoken to Kreia about her "memory blurring techniques") I think it's safe to speculate that Kreia = Kae.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is folly to build a theory on something when the available information is lacking in volume,and or validity....

IMO I am glad that part was cut.That is if it was considered in the first place,what a incredibly crappy plot twist that would have been.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

True. Didn't really have anything to do with the story of the exile. Would have screwed up kriea's character anyway. :cool:

[aerowars617]

My thoughts?

 

Kreia was intended to be Kae and there was originally going to be an "I AM YOUR MOTHER" revelation between Kreia and Brianna. Brianna's whole "becoming a Jedi" thing seemed to echo Luke's - especially with her dialogue:

 

"I want to learn the ways of the Force and become a Jedi like my mother" and whatnot.

 

The way Kreia spoke about Kae made me really suspicious - and at the end of the day, since the only information we have about Kreia and Kae's "different reasons for being exiled" come from Kreia herself, we're able to take that with a pinch of salt.

 

Add that to the fact that Kreia supposedly died "in the Mandalorian Wars" (when Kreia told the Jedi Exile that she was exiled *after* the wars) and that the Jedi Exile cannot even remember Kae, despite her being a very prominant Jedi Master (and having just spoken to Kreia about her "memory blurring techniques") I think it's safe to speculate that Kreia = Kae.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

THe devs probably cut it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Lucasfilm might have sued them (w00t)

 

IIRC, Kae went to Malachor V to fight the Mandalorians in the Mandalorian wars, Kriea did not, therefore Kriea cannot be Kae

I agree with sion01, it would have ruined those two characters...

Edited July 14, 2006 by aerowars617

[Guest The Architect]

IIRC, Kae went to Malachor V to fight the Mandalorians in the Mandalorian wars, Kriea did not, therefore Kriea cannot be Kae

I agree with sion01, it would have ruined those two characters...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Wrong. For a start, who is the source of this information, Kreia? Secondly, when Master Kavar saw Kreia, he said to her "I thought you had died 'in' the Mandalorian Wars?" Note that Kavar said, 'in' the Mandalorian Wars, not 'during' the Mandalorian Wars, which suggests that she did fight in the Mandalorian Wars.

 

And what do you mean Kreia cannot be Kae? Did any of the Jedi Masters call "Kreia" by her name? No, they didn't. Why? Perhaps because the name "Kreia" hasn't been heard of by then, maybe because "Kreia' was known as someone else before she "died" on Malachor V, perhaps she was "Kae" afterall.

 

So since none of the Jedi Masters called 'Kreia" by her name, the possibility of Kreia being Kae has not been ruled out. So sorry, but your arguement is poor in this case, and just so you know people, Darth Traya is a 'title', not a name, and in any event, "Darth Traya" cannot be "Kreia's' real name now can it? Now think about that carefully. Atris says about Kreia that it's not her real name, well, "Darth Traya" isn't a real name either, she 'changed' it to "Darth Traya" so who else can Kreia be? If Kreia isn't her real name, and "Darth Traya" isn't her real name, and you look at all the rather suspicious, interesting, eyebrow raising observations that connect Kreia and Kae in KOTOR II, IMO, it is certainly understandable why people think Kreia is Kae, I think she is, and if you ask me, where are the facts that go against the 'Kreia=Kae' arguement? There hasn't really been anything decent that challenges the theory so far, as far as I can tell...

Edited July 15, 2006 by The Architect

[Guest The Architect]

I thought I'd 'bump' this topic up again instead of unnecessarily creating a new topic about something which has been done a million times, the whole 'Kreia=Kae' thing, but I want the people who don't beleive that Kreia is Kae to challenge these interesting observations that support the theory that Kreia is Kae, so mods, please don't close this down...

 

-They were both female Jedi Masters who taught Revan, and were both 'exiled' from the Jedi Order

-Kae and Kreia are both referenced as being Revan's first master

-Atris's exclamation of "Kreia? That is not her name" And it is not Darth Traya, because that is a title, not a name, just like how Darth Vader is not Anakin's real name

-The fact that the Exile has no knowledge of her at all, despite her being a prominent Jedi Knight/Jedi Master, hints that Kreia might also be causing him/her to forget as she is the other Jedi Masters she comes across

-Kreia's name is pronounced as if it were a portmanteau of the names "Kae" and "Traya." This is possibly in keeping with the character's personality, given that she turned her back on both the Jedi Council and the Sith Order and combining her name as a Jedi, Kae, with her name as a Sith, 'Traya', instead embracing the 'Grey Philosophy'.

-Kreia has white hair, but it's not known if it's because of age, or if she always had them because of supposed Echani ancestry

-The information on the reasons for Kae and her own exile come directly from Kreia herself and it is interesting to note a point in the game where Master Kavar says: "I thought you died 'in' (not during) the Mandalorian Wars," which suggests that she did fight in the war and would also mean that Kreia could not have been exiled for Revan's "fall," since this occured after the Mandalorian Wars, so what is the real reason for her exile? Is it possible that it was because she had a child and she is indeed Arren Kae?

-Arren Kae's body was never recovered, so it is only speculated, not proven that she actually died

-Kreia was supposedly exiled from the Jedi Order for her dark-side teachings.Kae was apparently exiled for having a child (Brianna), but was exiled for it only a decade later. Compared to Jolee Bindo's transgressions (teaching his wife against the will of the Council, watching her fall to the dark-side, failing to kill her when she tried to murder him, then watching her kill other Jedi), it seems very harsh to exile her, when Jolee was completely forgiven for his crimes, which are far worse. Hint: Only Kreia tells us that having a child is why Kae was exiled. In fact, she just says that the order exiled Kae when they found out she had a child - she didn't actually say that was the reason for Kae's exile, and knowing Kreia that can be a rather important distinction. That one's from Jediphile

 

Also, if the Jedi Masters are on Dantooine, just before Kreia kills them, she rambles on (can't remember what she said) about how they could never understand Malachor V and all that stuff, because they weren't there, etc, well anyway the point is, what she says suggests that she was there at Malachor V and did fight in the Mandalorian Wars, what she says doesn't sound like something someone who wasn't at Malachor V would say...

 

There are doubtlessly other interesting observations that supports the 'Kreia=Kae' theory, so let the debate continue...

[Alec]

There are indeed many facts that support that Kreia is Arren Kae (even Kae sound familiar, Kreia could be the DS of Kae) and I agree that they are the same person.

[Jesse Conroy]

And yet this whole Traya thing comes back into play. I beat the game and never remember a part where Atris or Kreia was Traya, I don't understand.

[seejai]

ok i saw someone (architech) said she maybe echani bc of her hair. when you ask are you a jedi or sith and that little movie pops up it shows kreia when i think she was younger. i dont know what color her hair was then but if someone remembers or wants to check that could answer the white hair question. so is kae handmaidens mom (never played a guy game so i wouldnt know)

 

btw this is a good debate... right now im nuetral and slightly confused <_<

Edited July 30, 2006 by seejai

[seejai]

ahhh

please read this it has the kreia=kae debate stated very well

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Arren_Kae

[seejai]

OMG OH YEAH. it must be her. bc disciples like why are u here and im like why do u know her... ah. it is becoming clearer...

[Darth_Onivega]

Kreia's real name is Tom

[seejai]

^probably... hehheh

[chris the jedi killer]

I think kreia's Arren Kae

[Zilod]

just adding a note

 

i saw it was alredy mentioned that Kae fought in mandalorean wars (and died in them)

 

and is quite probable that even Kreia fought in these wars (as is said on dant)

 

also we know for sure that Kreia was present at malachor V and knew in first person the "pain" that the Exile, and other jedis, suffered in that battle (again the dialogues at dant)

 

 

so if she partecipated in that war is also not strange that the Exile doesn't remember Kreia at all?

 

Kreia was a powerfull jedi master, a master of Revan so probably an important character in that expedition.

the Exile was a commander under Revan, it seemed that he had a role of great responsability, so he had to know a jedi master so important and near Revan.

 

also why to cancel the Exile's memories about Kae? it was a jedi as many other in that war, so why to cancel her in particular?

 

 

the most logical conclusion is that Kreia removed all the memories the exile had of her and for this reason he can't remember anymore both about Kae and Kreia role during manda wars

 

 

 

just adding....

there could be other possible explanation about the facs mentioned and for sure these are all theories, but i think this is a good thing about this game.

 

even in movies we see too many times reasons and connections of various characters served to us on a silver plate and i think this makes a story quite simplicistic if not flat sometimes.

 

personally i prefer a story that keep in high reguard the intelligence and sensibility of its "spectator" making him think about it and not resolving all the doubts someone can have.

 

so maybe it was an abandoned plot... or a side effect of an unfinished game...

but maybe not... and i think is also "interesting" that no dev ever answered to this question

Edited July 31, 2006 by Zilod

[Alec]

Perhaps Arren Kae faked her death and then took another identity as Kreia to hide her true nature.

[chris the jedi killer]

Perhaps Arren Kae faked her death and then took another identity as Kreia to hide her true nature.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with alec maybe arren wanted to get revenge on the council

[Alec]

I still don't understand why Kreia wanted the death of the Force. Why should she destroy all life? For what purpose?

[Sharks9]

she wanted to destroy the force becuz then the galaxy could move along nicely without jedi and sithwars and people could control their own destiny isntead of having the force sort of telling them wut to do

[kalimeeri]

I still don't understand why Kreia wanted the death of the Force. Why should she destroy all life? For what purpose?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

She didn't. What she wanted was to end its influence over people's lives (and deaths); she felt they were pawns, or slaves to its will, and that wars began and people died in its efforts to achieve 'balance'. All she wanted was for people to have free choice.

[Guest The Architect]

Even when Kreia was a Sith, she had some notion that neither the light-side or dark-side of the Force was superior to the other. Due to the fact her teachings incorporated light-side concepts (for example, she never believed in power or destruction for its own sake), Darth Sion and Darth Nihilus grew weary of her. They betrayed her, stripped her of power, and exiled her. She described her fall from power thus:

 

"There are dark places in the galaxy, where few tread. Ancient centers of learning, of knowledge. But I did not walk alone. To be united by hatred is a fragile alliance at best. But my will was not law. There were disagreements, ambition . . . and hunger for power. There are techniques within the Force against which there is no defense. I was cast down, stripped of my power, exiled. I suffered indignities, and fell into darkness."

 

Kreia would refine her beliefs while wandering the galaxy, eventually coming to view the Force as being a sort of uncaring, insidious god that uses the lives of sentients as pawns in a pernicious game of balance. This, she thought, was evidenced by the widespread occurrences of destruction and death that had persistently transpired throughout the galaxy to that point, many of which could be traced to a conflict between force-sensitives.

 

Yet, Kreia blamed neither the Jedi nor the Sith, but rather the very thing they had both come to draw and rely upon: the Force itself. She was, however, upset with the Jedi and the Sith for being too "caught up in the game" to realize how the Force was manipulating them.

 

After being exiled from the Jedi Order (it was supposedly because she was blamed for Revan's corruption and all of the other renegade Jedi that fell to the dark-side at Malachor V, however, when Master Kavar sees Kreia, he says "I thought you had died in the Mandalorian Wars" implying that Kreia couldn't have possibly be exiled because of her teachings, because her exile would have happened after the Mandalorian Wars.

 

And again after Kreia was exiled from Malachor V by her impatient Sith students Darth Nihilus and Darth Sion, she had thus experienced betrayals from, and saw the flaws of, both the light and dark side of the Force. These unique experiences disillusioned her and forced her to refine her ways of thinking.

 

When she heard about the Exile, she saw proof that life could exist without the Force, which she saw as disproof of the traditional dogma of both the Sith and Jedi that the Force and life itself were inseparable by nature. This renewed her confidence in her personal beliefs and fueled her desire to learn more of the Exile's personal motivations.

 

By the end of her adventures with the Exile, Kreia had discovered that certain tragedies can leave wounds in the Force, which sometimes make it difficult to hear and be used. These "echoes," as she called them, provided a possible avenue through which it was possible to attack the Force. Her discovery was due in no small part to the Exile, as his/her experience at Malachor V, where he/she willingly severed his/her own bond with the Force, created an echo large enough that Kreia was able to connect the tragedy to the wound created in the Force. According to Kreia, those who had chosen death (or the Jedi who chose the dark-side) over a life devoid of the Force were not strong enough to deserve life. Her desire to prevent unnecessary death in the future was the overbearing motivation that cultivated her hatred for the Force. She once explained how one such as she could use the Force despite loathing it by comparing herself to one who studies poison. Just as such a person would strive to understand the lethality behind poison, so she strives to understand the particularities of the Force, thereby enabling her to destroy it, perhaps.

 

Kreia envisioned a galaxy that would choose not to acquiesce to the will of the Force. She thought she could achieve this by showing how one could willingly abnegate the Force and eventually become stronger for it, and it was the Exile who was a living testament to this. In her teachings with the Exile, she emphasized how dependent the Jedi and Sith were on the Force, and how they had become flawed for it. By making the Exile her prot

Edited July 31, 2006 by The Architect

[Jesse Conroy]

I finally looked up the whole Traya thing on wookieepedia.com now I understand.

[Zilod]

...

 

very nice post, there are only 2 points i don't fully agree with...

 

Kreia had always a huge hunger for knowledge an hunger that was never satisfied when she was a jedi or a sith...

 

i think in the end the thing that caused her fall and exile both as a jedi and sith was her knowledge of the force and her position in its reguards.

 

so i don't really think she realized the flaws of both side of the force after her exile from malachor but while she was studing the sith way.

 

 

second thing is about the echoes, i think she alredy knew of them, probably she was one of them herself, in the same way she alredy knew about the exile and what he was.

 

she experienced malachor, she was the master of nihilus who is very similar to the exile so she had knowledge of these echoes pretty much from the battle of malachor V.

 

 

a theory can be that she tried to "educate" nihilus as she have done with the exile, so to be an example for the galaxy, but nihilus hod not any plan to become something like that and his unger of power made him betray kreia and turned him in the nihilus we know.

 

in this perspective the qute you made from the game makes a lot of sense...

 

 

then after her failture with nihilus she had one "last hope" to succeed in her original plan (to "destroy" the force), this hope was the exile and this is the reason she begin to search for him/her and then to start his/her education.

 

 

one of the questions i always had about kreia was... why she never searched for the exile after manda wars if she alredy knew about him/her and alredy had knowledge about the flaws of the force?

 

this theory fit it quite perfectly... simply she had not need of him/her ar that time as she where alredy "working" on nihilus and only after the betrayal of her pupil she where in need of a "replacement" as the exile

[seejai]

I finally looked up the whole Traya thing on wookieepedia.com now I understand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

yeah i put the url up i dont know if anyone looked at it but it explained it nicely and i think shes kae