Judge Hades Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 Only with incontrovertible evidence, presumably. Women have been known to lie about rape, you know. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Of course. DNA evidence should suffice.
Llyranor Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 Consensual intercourse is rape! (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
alanschu Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 Its irrelevant if they are changable. They commited a crime. They need to be punished for it. Severe crimes need to have severe punishments. I don't particular care if he kills in passion. He killed another human being. He did so with purpose to end another person's life. There is only one punishment for that. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So you'd have no problems executing a guy that kills someone that raped his daughter?
Judge Hades Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 No. Because it isn't his place to take justice in his hands.
alanschu Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 But it is the place of the government to execute that type of justice? How exactly is that different?
alanschu Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 And if any evidence or anything is witheld, the perpetrator gets the sentence that was given to the innocent person wrongfully convicted? So you'll be executing people for being dishonest now? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I was actually just thinking of prison terms, not a death sentence...should have elaborated better, but if the person dies because of that withheld evidence or purposeful negligence on the part of the lawyer, then what do you propose happens to that lawyer? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What if the lawyer actually didn't mean to overlook it, but because of the large amount of evidence it ends up getting missed or whatever? The only way I'd be content to have the death sentence is if human beings were infalliable.
Cantousent Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 The death penalty for second degree murder? How about manslaughter? How about accidentaly killing someone? I agree that society has every right to enact the death penalty. I, personally disagree with it, but that's not the point. The real point is where you draw the line once you decide to implement the death penalty. If you start enforcing the death penalty for second degree murder, you're starting down a dark road. I am glad Al-Zarqawi is gone. The method that removed his presence is death, so I guess I should get off the fence and just state I'm glad he's dead. Would I have been in favor of executing him? I would be in favor of leaving that decision to the Iraqi government. Failing that, I would favor sending him to Cuba where we currently hold other terrorists we've apprehended. My granddad fought in World War Two. He hated the Japanese. With a passion, he hated the Japanese. He was glad that we dropped the atom bomb on them. He was glad that we dropped two. He would have liked to drop three. I loved my granddad. He was a clever old man with a mischeivous twinkle in his eye. He was a witty, mirthful, and friendly man. He hated the Japanese as if they weren't human. This is a clear example of how folks like Zarqawi continue to hurt us even after they die. The question, "Should we be happy he's dead?" Turned into the question, "Should we be sad we couldn't do worse to him?" That in turn brought on the question of how we should handle the common criminal. Al-Zarqawi was undoubtedly a criminal of an uncommon nature, but now we consider what to do with every person who harms another. If we exact our pound of flesh for someone who commits a murder in the heat of passion, what do we with the drunkard who kills a child on a bike through sheer negligence. If we kill him too, what do we with parents who lose children through lack, or oversight? I'm not a bleeding heart liberal, but we can't kill ourselves out of every problem. Al-Zarqawi was a bad man and I'm glad he's gone. In my own dark thoughts I've desired revenge, and I can understand others desiring it still. Kill Zarqawi. Kill the others who take his place. ...But the ends don't always justify the means. Sometimes the means become the end, and then we're all terrorists. Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!
Judge Hades Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 Because it is the state that governs the individual, not the individual that governs the state. There needs to be a trial for such occurance because as stated earlier there is a possibility of the daughter lying.
metadigital Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 I was actually just thinking of prison terms, not a death sentence...should have elaborated better, but if the person dies because of that withheld evidence or purposeful negligence on the part of the lawyer, then what do you propose happens to that lawyer? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> First offence? Crucifixion. OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT
Judge Hades Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 (edited) The death penalty for second degree murder? How about manslaughter? How about accidentaly killing someone? The line is drawn at intent and purpose, regardless of state of mind. If I lose control of my car (if I had a car) and killed a child on the sidewalk it would be an accident and not deserving the death penalty for there was no intent or purpose to kill that child. On the other hand if I get out of my car, walk up to the child, and strangle him to death, there would be clear intent and purpose of me killing the kid, thusly the death penalty would/should apply. Edited June 9, 2006 by Judge Hades
alanschu Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 Here's an interesting scenario. Guy tries mugging someone. The guy getting mugged decides to fight back. Mugger ends up being overwhelmed, and in his own defense, shoots the guy. Is this self-defence, or second degree murder?
Judge Hades Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 (edited) Second Degree Murder because he had the intent to do harm on the person by mugging him in the first place. If he did not start the events that lead the other man's death no crime would have occured. Intent and Purpose. Edited June 9, 2006 by Judge Hades
metadigital Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 I would be happy with ostracising the evil-doers; expel them from our society, put them on a desert island ... or even in a prison ... no, wait: a colosseum, where they can battle the other evil-doers to the death! OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT
alanschu Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 On the other hand if I get out of my car, walk up to the child, and strangle him to death, there would be clear intent and purpose of me killing the kid, thusly the death penalty would/should apply Wouldn't that be first degree murder? It doesn't seem like a heat of the moment type thing.
Llyranor Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 Send them to Australia! (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
alanschu Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 (edited) Second Degree Murder because he had the intent to do harm on the person by mugging him in the first place. If he did not start the events that lead the other man's death no crime would have occured. Intent and Purpose. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually it was a trick question. It's first degree murder. EDIT: D'OH. Not anymore in some states Edited June 9, 2006 by alanschu
metadigital Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 Send them to Australia! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> There's a waiting list, now, y'know! You can only get in if you have a billion dollars, work as an electric nurse plumber and / or volunteer to live in the middle of the Simpson Desert. OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT
Llyranor Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 Second Degree Murder because he had the intent to do harm on the person by mugging him in the first place. If he did not start the events that lead the other man's death no crime would have occured. Intent and Purpose. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually it was a trick question. It's first degree murder. EDIT: D'OH. Not anymore in some states <{POST_SNAPBACK}> DON'T U LOOK SMART NOW (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
metadigital Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 Not every state has a Second Degree category. But who cares about the US, anyway? OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT
Llyranor Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 Let's talk about Australia some more. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
Judge Hades Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 I like Australia. I would love to live in Sydney.
alanschu Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 Okay Hades, if you as a civilian come face to face with Al-Zarqawi, and have the option of either killing him, or letting him go (and just to make sure the waters are clear, if you don't shoot him, he will get away and he will not be arrested. You also have the benefit of precognition and know that this is the case)...what do you do? Do you sacrifice your own life?
kumquatq3 Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 Let's talk about Australia some more. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> They have alot of sheep....and every animal there but the sheep is highly poisonous True Story
metadigital Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 New Zealand has more sheep, per capita: 20 million sheep to 3 million sheep-rooters people. OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT
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