Age of Decadence

[Morgoth]

15-20 bucks I say. Everything above is usury price for a...mod.

[Purkake]

What exactly does it offer that's different from mainstream games?

Salvation.

 

Will it round up all the old wRPGs and lead them to the promised land?

[Starwars]

15-20 bucks I say. Everything above is usury price for a...mod.

 

Congratulations, you have leveled up. Please take another level of Troll.

[Morgoth]

15-20 bucks I say. Everything above is usury price for a...mod.

 

Congratulations, you have leveled up. Please take another level of Troll.

Is that all you got?

[Slowtrain]

What exactly does it offer that's different from mainstream games?

 

 

well, a manual for starters. Most mainstream games assume gamers can't read and don't even bother with a manual.

[Purkake]

What exactly does it offer that's different from mainstream games?

 

 

well, a manual for starters. Most mainstream games assume gamers can't read and don't even bother with a manual.

 

If I'm going to get AoD, I'll get the downloadable version. Drakensang was the last game I remember that actually needed a manual.

[Bos_hybrid]

As I've already explained, AoD is offering a lot more than just production values, things that mainstream games don't offer. If production values are the most important thing to you, buy any random EA/Activision game, don't bother with AoD.

 

So far all AoD is offering is hype, with low production values. You know the same hype we boo 'mainstream' devs for doing.

 

The reason the boxed version is $50 is because they want to have a really good color printed manual.

 

So they want to charge $25 for a 10c dvd, a box and a manual.

 

This is just grabbed from the homepage, but these are the basics for me:

 

7 distinctive gameplay styles: from knight, serving a Noble House, to grifter, preying on greed and gullibility.

 

Non-combat quest resolutions and a well-developed diplomatic path ( "The best weapon against an enemy is another enemy."

 

Each situation has multiple ways of handling it, based on your skills, reputation, and connections. Each way has consequences that will affect someone or something.

An interesting world with rich history and unclear future that your actions can shape into seven very different game endings.

 

Congratulations, you listed hype that I've read from soooo many others devs trying to get people interested in their game. Please tell me what makes this any different.

 

What exactly does it offer that's different from mainstream games?

 

 

well, a manual for starters. Most mainstream games assume gamers can't read and don't even bother with a manual.

 

Funny, I'm pretty sure NWN2 came with a manual, let me go check...... Yep and at 177 pages. Next let me check Crysis Warhead... Once again I'm seeing a manual this time at 32 pages so it smaller, although if you need a manual to tell you to point and fire...... Next let me check a personal favourite of yours Oblivion... Again I've got a manual at 51 pages. So now I must assume you must mean 360 games, so hang on let me check... Fable 2 manual, check, ME manual, check, Force unleashed check, hell Fifa 09 has a bloody manual. I'm not seeing a lack of manuals here....

 

Unless you are talking about Valve made games..... Which by the way do have manuals, they're just online.

 

If I'm going to get AoD, I'll get the downloadable version. Drakensang was the last game I remember that actually needed a manual.

 

Same, although can't say Drakensang was a game worth playing with or without a manual.

[Purkake]

If I'm going to get AoD, I'll get the downloadable version. Drakensang was the last game I remember that actually needed a manual.

 

Same, although can't say Drakensang was a game worth playing with or without a manual.

 

Sure, I just didn't understand jack at first. Damn new age damage values and whatnot.

[Slowtrain]

D00d, I was only half-serious. Chill.

 

 

I'm not even sure what anyone is arguing about in this thread anymore anyway. Is it the quality of the graphics? Or what? That indie developers get more slack than major studios? That charity begins at home?

[Bos_hybrid]

D00d, I was only half-serious. Chill.

 

I know, didn't mean to sound serious.

 

I'm not even sure what anyone is arguing about in this thread anymore anyway. Is it the quality of the graphics? Or what? That indie developers get more slack than major studios? That charity begins at home?

 

Well my point is, that so far, AoD is not looking like the Jesus/buddha/Skywalker of RPGs it supposedly is. It's hype is no different from the stuff that comes out of Howard/Molyneux mouth.

[Starwars]

So far all AoD is offering is hype, with low production values. You know the same hype we boo 'mainstream' devs for doing.

 

Except that there have been numerous showcases of in-game situations, articles on how it's designed etc. Not just "hey guys, we have lots of choices in our game", but screenshots and examples taken from the actual game.

And I damn sure don't boo mainstream devs for hyping their games, except when they babble on how it still be the best thing since sliced bread (which VD most certainly has not, though I understand many have that impression) and when they hype things which I think are irrelevant to the genre of the game (Patrick Stewart voiceacting for example).

 

Congratulations, you listed hype that I've read from soooo many others devs trying to get people interested in their game. Please tell me what makes this any different.

 

If you think I'm gonna go back and look up all the old interviews, articles and forum discussions where they showcased how this works, you're mistaken. I'm sure you'll take that as a cop-out or whatever, but really man. I may look forward to this game a lot, but I haven't bookmarked all the interesting stuff that has been shown during the time I've followed it. If you really want to, I'm sure you can find it yourself.

 

But eh, you can remove the point you bolded if you want.

 

Like I said before, noone will know whether it's a good game until it's actually released. I'm saying that it's a game which is incorporating things that I care about. Whether they are actually pulled off well when I sit there and play the game remains to be seen. And that impression will color my expectations of the next game coming from Iron Tower.

Edited August 15, 2009 by Starwars

[Wrath of Dagon]

Everyone keeps saying that AoD offers this and that. What exactly does it offer that's different from mainstream games? Really long descriptions and lots of dialog and a somewhat hardcore combat system, is that all?

I've already said

but these expectations are choices and consequences, different ways to play according to your build, and tactical and challenging combat

Or what Starwars said.

 

Some of you might think it's hype, but those of us who follow AoD forums have seen plenty of evidence, and we believe it. Most developers only give you the marketing line, ITS actually shows you how the game works. If you don't believe them, you can try the demo and see for yourself, no need to endlessly argue about this.

[Slowtrain]

Well my point is, that so far, AoD is not looking like the Jesus/buddha/Skywalker of RPGs it supposedly is. It's hype is no different from the stuff that comes out of Howard/Molyneux mouth.

 

 

OK, sure, I agree that time will tell out just like any other game.

 

But, I think that AoD is getting a bit of slack is that it is theoretically offering gameplay that major studios don't like to touch anymore. So its like a drop of water in a desert. At the moment. WIll it be a mirage in the end? Possibly. But let us pretend for now that it is cool cool water!

[Bos_hybrid]

Except that there have been numerous showcases of in-game situations, articles on how it's designed etc. Not just "hey guys, we have lots of choices in our game", but screenshots and examples taken from the actual game.

 

What of 2 or 3 different situations, sort of like FO3 Megatown hype?

 

And I damn sure don't boo mainstream devs for hyping their games, except when they babble on how it still be the best thing since sliced bread (which VD most certainly has not, though I understand many have that impression) and when they hype things which I think are irrelevant to the genre of the game (Patrick Stewart voiceacting for example).

 

Hasn't he basically attacked/ridiculed Beth/Bio/Obs for what they do with there RPGs, then claimed his AoD is a true RPG.

 

Like I said before, noone will know whether it's a good game until it's actually released.

 

Which is all I wanted to point out. The belief that is great before it's out is not something I agree with. Be it Iron Tower or Valve.

 

Some of you might think it's hype, but those of us who follow AoD forums have seen plenty of evidence, and we believe it. Most developers only give you the marketing line, ITS actually shows you how the game works.

 

A few pics of conversations, and a few supposed writing excerpts doesn't equal proof. It's hype and there is nothing wrong with hype, just don't expect those that aren't fans to be impressed by it.

 

If you don't believe them, you can try the demo and see for yourself, no need to endlessly argue about this.

 

There is no demo out yet, and the demo coming is a combat one right? Not the best way to judge a RPG in my view.

 

But, I think that AoD is getting a bit of slack is that it is theoretically offering gameplay that major studios don't like to touch anymore. So its like a drop of water in a desert. At the moment. WIll it be a mirage in the end? Possibly. But let us pretend for now that it is cool cool water!!

 

Pffft. Pessimism is the way to go. Remeber the glass is half empty!

[Wrath of Dagon]

There is no demo out yet, and the demo coming is a combat one right? Not the best way to judge a RPG in my view.

There will be a full demo once the game is out, that's what I was referring to, not the combat demo, which is mostly to get feedback on the combat. And I'm not aware of anyone here saying the game will be great, all we're trying to do is explain why we have high expectations of the game. Edited August 15, 2009 by Wrath of Dagon

[Aristes]

I dunno. I guess I fall in the 'willing to give IC some slack' category. There have actually been some good things I've seen in this thread, even in regards to the much debated graphics. I don't know how well he'll pull it off, but I'm willing to give it a shot and see how it plays. *shrug* I don't care about the manual and whatnot, but I'll get the STEAM version or whatever and then spout off here about what I see.

[Tigranes]

What of 2 or 3 different situations, sort of like FO3 Megatown hype?

 

No, a lot more, and lot more comprehensively. Besides which, lots of people *did* cut Beth a lot of slack on the Megaton hype and the Dog on Fire hype (Oblivion) because what they saw was promising. Those who didn't would probably have, if it weren't for Bethesda's track record of Molyneuxian hype. So... you have no point, here, at all.

 

Hasn't he basically attacked/ridiculed Beth/Bio/Obs for what they do with there RPGs, then claimed his AoD is a true RPG.

 

He has a very clear and narrow view of what a true RPG is. Consequently, many other games are not very good RPGs by his standards. Naturally, since he is making a game, he's going to try and make what he thinks is a true RPG. He does say things in terms that are easily understood as arrogant or narrow-minded, but at the core he has a very clear vision - can't say that's a bad thing for AoD.

 

The belief that is great before it's out is not something I agree with. Be it Iron Tower or Valve.

 

Because people here are worshipping AOD's greatness, right? Doesn't even happen at the Codex, which some people seem to think have gone head over heels for VD's dashing charm.

 

There's not much here...

[Bos_hybrid]

What of 2 or 3 different situations, sort of like FO3 Megatown hype?

 

No, a lot more, and lot more comprehensively. Besides which, lots of people *did* cut Beth a lot of slack on the Megaton hype and the Dog on Fire hype (Oblivion) because what they saw was promising. Those who didn't would probably have, if it weren't for Bethesda's track record of Molyneuxian hype. So... you have no point, here, at all.

 

 

Hype is hype be it from Molyneux or VD. I've got nothing against it, just don't expect me to believe it.

 

He has a very clear and narrow view of what a true RPG is. Consequently, many other games are not very good RPGs by his standards. Naturally, since he is making a game, he's going to try and make what he thinks is a true RPG. .

 

And I say he should concentrate on AoD and not on other companies efforts. If AoD is so much better, we will come to that conclusion ourselves.

[Wrath of Dagon]

I don't understand your point. Because he's making his own game, he's not allowed to have an opinion of other games?

[Tigranes]

Hype is hype be it from Molyneux or VD. I've got nothing against it, just don't expect me to believe it.

 

We have hype from a proven liar, and hype from an unproven person with a lot more substance to back up that hype than the former. You're going to treat both in exactly the same way? I'm not sure why you would do that.

 

And I say he should concentrate on AoD and not on other companies efforts. If AoD is so much better, we will come to that conclusion ourselves.

 

Maybe if people stopped taking things so personally or in such discourses of conflict and one-upmanship, public figures could voice their honest opinions on the media more often and not have to take pot shots for it. This is why vidgame devs never say anything substantial about other vidgames, why many celebrities refrain from talking politics, etc. Not to mention that he has never actually claimed AOD to be 'better'. It's just what he wants RPGs to be. Judging by his own yardstick, of course other games will come short, because they were not made to his yardstick. As long as he's not saying his yardstick should become a universal qualifier (which he isn't), I maintain that there's nothing in his statements that warrants your reaction.

[Llyranor]

At least VD's PR is entertaining, like when he goes off insulting the community of some gaming site interviewing him, rather than standard Bioware/Bethesda/Molyneux crap.

 

As for me, I'll wait for the demo and impressions. We'll see about C&C, but what I've seen of the writing hasn't been too great, though that was before he got an editor or something. Who knows.

[Bos_hybrid]

We have hype from a proven liar, and hype from an unproven person with a lot more substance to back up that hype than the former. You're going to treat both in exactly the same way? I'm not sure why you would do that.

 

Molyneux is far more likely to achive his stupid hype (with his almost unlimited resources), then a small budget indie Dev. I'm also not seeing any more substance to VDs Aod hype, then what Molyneux had with his Fables.

 

Maybe if people stopped taking things so personally or in such discourses of conflict and one-upmanship, public figures could voice their honest opinions on the media more often and not have to take pot shots for it. This is why vidgame devs never say anything substantial about other vidgames, why many celebrities refrain from talking politics, etc. .

 

Who's taking thing personally here? It just strikes me as unprofessional. I can't remember Saywer, Gaider etc ever singling out others games as bad to hype their own game. My stance would be the same, if either of them singled out AoD/IT as bad.

 

Not to mention that he has never actually claimed AOD to be 'better'. It's just what he wants RPGs to be. Judging by his own yardstick, of course other games will come short, because they were not made to his yardstick.

 

Really, Aod= everything else = I can't see much of a grey area. If he hasn't said this, that's fine and my bad. But that's the general impression I've got from his posts and others comments on his comments on the codex.

[Starwars]

Molyneux is far more likely to achive his stupid hype (with his almost unlimited resources), then a small budget indie Dev. I'm also not seeing any more substance to VDs Aod hype, then what Molyneux had with his Fables.

 

The thing is that AoD focuses on things which *can* be done with a smaller team. If we focus on the choices & consequences for example, that could easily be done in a friggin' mod for NWN2 if someone felt like doing it. It's not rocket science (though it does of course take work to write up different paths and manage variables, but it's not exactly pushing the medium), it's just that games like that are not provided by the industry. If VD started talking about how AoD has soil erosion or some other advanced feature, I would be more dubious.

He has said several times that AoD will not an innovative game, just that they hope to deliver a good old-school cRPG with focus on choices & consequences.

Molyneux for example talked all about how we would love characters in Fable 2 and feel real emotions etc etc (I remember one preview about the dog which I found almost creepy to tell the truth). Those goals are a quite a bit loftier than providing choices & consequences.

 

Who's taking thing personally here? It just strikes me as unprofessional. I can't remember Saywer, Gaider etc ever singling out others games as bad to hype their own game. My stance would be the same, if either of them singled out AoD/IT as bad.

 

But he was *always* very critical of the gaming industry, long before AoD ever started so it's not like he suddenly started doing that just because AoD got announced. And if he would suddenly stop doing that once he had started developing AoD, he would've obviously looked fake to many of the people who the *game is targeted at in the first place*. Maybe it is unprofessional, could very well be. But again, the people who AoD is first and foremost targeted at probably agree with his views.

 

Not to mention that while he has been very critical of certain game companies (Bioware is a good example), he has still managed to conduct great interviews where David Gaider is involved for example, as well as many other game devs (a fairly big number from Obsidian as well). Not to mention that David Gaider has stated that he looks forward to Age of Decadence, and he recently posted in support of the Zombie RPG as well. Perhaps even industry people find his attitude refreshing, or that there may be a good game in the making here? I don't know.

 

Really, Aod= everything else = I can't see much of a grey area. If he hasn't said this, that's fine and my bad. But that's the general impression I've got from his posts and others comments on his comments on the codex.

 

He has most definetely not said this. And furthermore, there are plenty of games which he has been quite positive about. He called Mask of the Betrayer a masterpiece for example, and spoke favourably about Storm of Zehir as well. He also enjoyed Mysteries of Westgate a lot. As I recall, even his Fallout 3 review had quite a number of positive aspects to it.

[Bos_hybrid]

The thing is that AoD focuses on things which *can* be done with a smaller team. If we focus on the choices & consequences for example, that could easily be done in a friggin' mod for NWN2 if someone felt like doing it. It's not rocket science (though it does of course take work to write up different paths and manage variables, but it's not exactly pushing the medium), it's just that games like that are not provided by the industry. If VD started talking about how AoD has soil erosion or some other advanced feature, I would be more dubious.

He has said several times that AoD will not an innovative game, just that they hope to deliver a good old-school cRPG with focus on choices & consequences.

Molyneux for example talked all about how we would love characters in Fable 2 and feel real emotions etc etc (I remember one preview about the dog which I found almost creepy to tell the truth). Those goals are a quite a bit loftier than providing choices & consequences.

 

I don't think a game focuing on choices & consequences, is easy, in fact I think it's damn hard. I think it's easier to evoke emotion from a player then focusing on C&C, every RPG dev have hyped this aspect of their game and so far everyone of them has failed to deliver on a large scale. Sure some have done some good things on a small scale, but noting huge. C&C is far more then just the initial effects, a good C&C should be felt a long way through the game and writing/scripting that is IMO far more work/time/money, then evoking an emotion from the player.

 

Maybe it is unprofessional, could very well be. But again, the people who AoD is first and foremost targeted at probably agree with his views.

 

So because he has a few followers on the codex that agree with him it's fine? Is that you point? I hope not.

 

Not to mention that while he has been very critical of certain game companies (Bioware is a good example), he has still managed to conduct great interviews where David Gaider is involved for example, as well as many other game devs (a fairly big number from Obsidian as well).Not to mention that David Gaider has stated that he looks forward to Age of Decadence, and he recently posted in support of the Zombie RPG as well. Perhaps even industry people find his attitude refreshing, or that there may be a good game in the making here? I don't know.

 

What does that have to do with what I've said? Why would I care that DG is looking forward to AoD? And what does Mitsodas rpg have to do with this? (Apart from the fact DB is using the AoD engine )

 

He has most definetely not said this.

 

My mistake. I do occasionally make them.

[Gromnir]

troika showed us screenies from toee that "proved" game had choices and consequences. whatever you folks think you is knowing 'bout choices and consequences in aod based on a handful of screenies and vd promises is less grounded in reality and more 'bout faith. is nothing wrong with faith, but is impossible to argue with a zealot. is true because you Believe it to be true, and not 'cause you has seen anything more substantial or more reliable from vd.

 

btw, vinnie thought that toee were a swell game.

 

vinnie is a codexian who gots a near fanatical devotion to fallout. he gots all the arrogance tim cain had, without similar experience. even so, 'cause he is a familiar name to the hardcore fallout fans, and 'cause he gots same pretensions as the Almighty Cain, the faithful believes in vd. without cain, who else does the faithful got?

 

picture a drowning man... middle of ocean. lungs is already partially full o' water and he can't keep head above water. panic. the man sees a small piece o' waterlogged driftwood out of the corner of his salt-stung eye... tears, terror and the deep blue sea. what is the chances that the drowning man does not grasp at the driftwood in hopes of miraculous salvation? is no way a small piece o' water-logged driftwood could support a man's weight and keep him afloat. the fear-crazed drowning man knows that the piece o' wood cannot possibly prevent all too imminent death. even so, what is chances that the man does not reach out for that piece o' wood... piece o' hope?

 

vd is saying the right things to the right people, but he gots limited experience and a laughable budget... and so far his screenies and samples is pretty uninspired. even so, perhaps he is that small piece o' driftwood that offers salvation to a drowning man. some people is gonna hold onto faith just as long as they possibly can. and why not? is not rational or reasonable, but if you folks feels like you not got any other option, then why not defend? if not defend vd and aod, then you is giving up on lastest and bestest hope, no?

 

*shrug*

 

can't do it. Gromnir can't find no faith in aod and vinnie. perhaps we ain't as disappointed with current games as is some of you. perhaps we not got same kinda appreciation for fallout and the cain legacy. perhaps we is a natural cynic. whatever. aod is an indie game from an inexperienced developer who is making same promises as virtual every other developer of crpgs from past 15 years, but he gots less resources with which to achieve goals. screens and writing sample released so far don't inspire much confidence and a full-price release from a developer with no genuine qa makes us leery of initial offering being little more than a glorified beta. like the rest of you, Gromnir is a fan of crpgs, so we want vinnie to succeed... can only benefit if we gets a good new crpg to play. 'course, our suspicion won't make aod any better than will your faith. at the end of the day it not matter if you got faith and we don't. am curious where the faith comes from, but am s'posing it not do no harm.

 

HA! Good Fun!