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Who will win the console war?

Darth Exile

By Darth Exile
in Computer and Console

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Who will win the console war?  

95 members have voted

  1. 1. Who will win the console war?

    • Sony's PS3
      28
    • Microsoft's 360
      45
    • Nintendo's Wii
      22

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mkreku

mkreku

Posted
Posted
Square-Enix is already having small issues with Final Fantasy 13, and they've yet to really dive into Cell.

It took a team of world renown programers over 15 months to optimize half of the SPEs in Cell to run the benchmarks used in Berkleys study.

Yeah, so you say. It's getting old asking for this, but please provide links. Your credibility is not high enough that I would just trust your word.

 

Tims comments go against what nearly everybody else in the industry has said.  Regardless of his comments, they hold little weight in the industry as a whole, since he's no longer coding the engines.  I thought we were to the point that everyone could see through the smoke and mirrors that Sony uses?  Paying for out of house PR statements, showing software not actually running on the hardware itself, and other methods of deception to gamers.

Opinionated BS. Check out the "report" IGN published that Microsoft sent them on how the Xbox 360 will be much stronger than the PS3 for "smoke and mirrors" if you wish. Bringing PR BS up is useless for the discussion at hand and only reveals the blatant Microsoft fanboi in you.

 

Sorry that you think that the compilers will be magical, but claiming it's just multi-threading to mainly overcome is to put it bluntly, wrong.  Multi-threaded processors and code are nothing new.  If you really wanted to make a case against the complexity of Cell/Xenon, then you could have at least tried the argument of in-order processing instead of out of order processing.  The fact that you and the other guy seem to insist that the eight "cores" on Cell and the three cores on Xenon are somehow not that dissimilar is quite funny.

Really? Again it's your own words without anything backing them up. Or do you have a lot of experience coding on the Xenon/CELL processors..?

 

For a clue, read this: http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2453&p=4

 

On one chipset you have a CPU with seven co-processors that are nothing more than FPU pushing slaves to the PPE.  You have a completely different architecture approach and focus, with poor branch prediction and a short history tree.

Compare this "description" of the CELL..

 

On the other chipset, you have a CPU with three symetrical cores, has incredible vector processing capabilities, very strong branch prediction (pushing 90%) in all three cores.

..to this description of Xenon. Ridiculous. You've swallowed the entire Microsoft hype machine.

 

Hey, when you're done wacking off over your Xbox 360, why don't you actually read up on the Xenon? BOTH the CELL and Xenon are "suffering" from being multi-core processors. It basically means more cores are battling for a finite number of transistors, which in turn means that each core is less powerful than a normal single-core processor. Xenon is definitely not an exception from this rule.

 

By the way, while I was reading up on Xenon and CELL (to clear the cobwebs from my head as this discussion was last had in 2005) I accidently found out that the dual-layer DVD that the Xbox 360 uses is actually only capable of storing 7 GB of data for games. A single-layer Blu-Ray DVD is capable of 23.3 GB. So much for future-proof technology.

Swedes, go to: Spel2, for the latest game reviews in swedish!

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red47

red47

Posted
Posted

..to this description of Xenon. Ridiculous. You've swallowed the entire Microsoft hype machine.

 

Hey, when you're done wacking off over your Xbox 360, why don't you actually read up on the Xenon? BOTH the CELL and Xenon are "suffering" from being multi-core processors. It basically means more cores are battling for a finite number of transistors, which in turn means that each core is less powerful than a normal single-core processor. Xenon is definitely not an exception from this rule.

 

By the way, while I was reading up on Xenon and CELL (to clear the cobwebs from my head as this discussion was last had in 2005) I accidently found out that the dual-layer DVD that the Xbox 360 uses is actually only capable of storing 7 GB of data for games. A single-layer Blu-Ray DVD is capable of 23.3 GB. So much for future-proof technology.

 

 

Ya OK. YOU obviously have no clue what you are talking about. And for the part about it only able to use 7 GB to play games you are dead wrong on that, considering you have alot more to use for game saves, i.e. 20 GB. i own a 360 stupid and i use alot more on my hard drive..

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mkreku

mkreku

Posted
Posted (edited)
Ya OK. YOU obviously have no clue what you are talking about.  And for the part about it only able to use 7 GB to play games you are dead wrong on that, considering you have alot more to use for game saves, i.e. 20 GB. i own a 360 stupid and i use alot more on my hard drive..

First: learn to quote properly, your posts look like ****.

 

Second: Only 7GB of the 7.95GB capacity of a dual-layered DVD is available for developers to use for game content.

 

Source: http://www.gamersreports.com/index.php?sid=3138

 

Why you bring the hard drive into the DVD discussion is beyond me, but you're wrong nonetheless. Only 13 GB of the hard drive are available to the user, not 20; the rest is reserved for the system and games.

 

 

 

Edit: Replaced a non-working link.

Edited by mkreku

Swedes, go to: Spel2, for the latest game reviews in swedish!

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LostStraw

LostStraw

Posted
Posted (edited)

It's nitpicking time :rolleyes:.

 

Sorry that you think that the compilers will be magical, but claiming it's just multi-threading to mainly overcome is to put it bluntly, wrong.  Multi-threaded processors and code are nothing new.  If you really wanted to make a case against the complexity of Cell/Xenon, then you could have at least tried the argument of in-order processing instead of out of order processing.  The fact that you and the other guy seem to insist that the eight "cores" on Cell and the three cores on Xenon are somehow not that dissimilar is quite funny.

Really? Again it's your own words without anything backing them up. Or do you have a lot of experience coding on the Xenon/CELL processors..?

 

For a clue, read this: http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2453&p=4

 

On one chipset you have a CPU with seven co-processors that are nothing more than FPU pushing slaves to the PPE.  You have a completely different architecture approach and focus, with poor branch prediction and a short history tree.

 

From the article you linked to:

 

"Unfortunately, the SPEs have no branch prediction, so BSP tree traversal will tie up an SPE for quite a bit of time while not performing very well as each branch condition has to be evaluated before execution can continue.  However it is possible to structure collision detection for execution on the SPEs, but it would require a different approach to the collision detection algorithms than what would be normally implemented on a PC or Xbox 360."

 

Although he definitely put some spin on it, those points he made (that I quoted) seem to be accurate -- from the article you linked to.

Edited by LostStraw
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mkreku

mkreku

Posted
Posted

Yup. I was never claiming he got everything wrong, just that the way he describes the different processors is silly and fanboi'ish. Also, the article talks a bit about Out of Order vs. In Order processing, something which he mentioned in his post.

Swedes, go to: Spel2, for the latest game reviews in swedish!

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10k fists

10k fists

Posted
Posted
Yeah, so you say. It's getting old asking for this, but please provide links. Your credibility is not high enough that I would just trust your word.

 

I have no interest in doing anyones homework. In the newsgroups I post in, people don't ask for links regarding information like this, as what I'm discussing here, and what we discuss there is common knowledge in the industry.

 

Opinionated BS. Check out the "report" IGN published that Microsoft sent them on how the Xbox 360 will be much stronger than the PS3 for "smoke and mirrors" if you wish. Bringing PR BS up is useless for the discussion at hand and only reveals the blatant Microsoft fanboi in you.

 

At what point in my post did I say Microsoft was infallible? I was specifically discussing PR comments directly relating to Sony, and not making some "exclusive" comment that only applies to them. Is this what you normally do when you don't know how to respond? Take something out of context and then label the other person a "fanboi"?

 

Really? Again it's your own words without anything backing them up. Or do you have a lot of experience coding on the Xenon/CELL processors..?

 

My credentials are more than enough for me to discuss the matter.

 

 

anandtech could never give me a "clue"....

 

Compare this "description" of the CELL..

 

..to this description of Xenon. Ridiculous. You've swallowed the entire Microsoft hype machine.

 

It's apparent you know nothing about the architecture of either chipset. As nothing I typed was "hype". But, I guess this goes back to my previous statement, you don't have a response so you use a fanboy type remark, this time, claiming I've "swallowed hype". You're quite a piece of work.

 

Hey, when you're done wacking off over your Xbox 360, why don't you actually read up on the Xenon? BOTH the CELL and Xenon are "suffering" from being multi-core processors. It basically means more cores are battling for a finite number of transistors, which in turn means that each core is less powerful than a normal single-core processor. Xenon is definitely not an exception from this rule.

 

I know quite a bit about the PowerPC family which covers everything from OSX, to BlueGene, to Xenon, to Cell, to PowerPC clusters, to z/OS and so on and so forth. There isn't a thing I need to read to bring me up to speed on Xenon. I was sent a PM a while back from someone with a link to these forums, telling me to post here when discussions like this came up. So, in the spirit of loving to talk about this tech, I did. I now realize that it was a mistake, as people like yourself take it upon yourselves to ruin the thread.

 

By the way, while I was reading up on Xenon and CELL (to clear the cobwebs from my head as this discussion was last had in 2005) I accidently found out that the dual-layer DVD that the Xbox 360 uses is actually only capable of storing 7 GB of data for games. A single-layer Blu-Ray DVD is capable of 23.3 GB. So much for future-proof technology.

 

When games require more than a DVD-9, then we can have this discussion... Well, we could have, but you seem to be a prick when you are put in a debate where your knowledge is lacking. Calling people "fanbois" and telling them to quit "wacking off", I would like to personally thank you for acting like a 10 year old, and bringing this once civil dicussion to a cesspool-like quality. You've really proven yourself as a capable poster full of valuable information for people to read. Take care.

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LostStraw

LostStraw

Posted
Posted (edited)
Yup. I was never claiming he got everything wrong, just that the way he describes the different processors is silly and fanboi'ish. Also, the article talks a bit about Out of Order vs. In Order processing, something which he mentioned in his post.

 

Ah, got it.

 

With that out of the way, I guess I'll cast my vote for the PS3 to win the war. While I think that it wont sell well out of the gate, I do believe it has a good chance of winning in the long run.

Edited by LostStraw
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10k fists

10k fists

Posted
Posted
Although he definitely put some spin on it, those points he made (that I quoted) seem to be accurate -- from the article you linked to.

 

What spin did I put on it? The SPEs are slaves to the PPE, and they do nothing but number crunching (FPU work), they have poor branch prediction and a short history tree...

 

Where's the spin?

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mkreku

mkreku

Posted
Posted (edited)
I have no interest in doing anyones homework.  In the newsgroups I post in, people don't ask for links regarding information like this, as what I'm discussing here, and what we discuss there is common knowledge in the industry.

People don't ask for links regarding information like this? Well, welcome to the real world, where not everyone will believe every piece of rubbish you write. You know, you're more and more beginning to resemble the infamous Epiphany..

 

At what point in my post did I say Microsoft was infallible?  I was specifically discussing PR comments directly relating to Sony, and not making some "exclusive" comment that only applies to them.

Again, the PR statements has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. The only reason you brought them up was to mock a brand you don't like (ie. Sony), which in turn makes you look like a Microsoft fanboi.

 

My credentials are more than enough for me to discuss the matter.

Yeah, in your own livingroom. Perhaps.

 

For a clue, read this: http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2453&p=4

 

anandtech could never give me a "clue"....

But I guess you're here to provide us with one..? I love how you don't provide any links to anything and then, when faced with a link that actually brings something to the discussion, you dismiss it without any motivation.. :rolleyes:

 

It's apparent you know nothing about the architecture of either chipset.

I only know what I've read. Which I assume is about as much as you know? Or are you claiming you have first hand programming experience with any of the processors/systems? I call BS.

 

You've really proven yourself as a capable poster full of valuable information for people to read.

Take a long hard look at your last post (the one I just quoted). Brimful with "valuable information", is it not? Oh, the irony..

Edited by mkreku

Swedes, go to: Spel2, for the latest game reviews in swedish!

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LostStraw

LostStraw

Posted
Posted (edited)
Although he definitely put some spin on it, those points he made (that I quoted) seem to be accurate -- from the article you linked to.

 

What spin did I put on it? The SPEs are slaves to the PPE, and they do nothing but number crunching (FPU work), they have poor branch prediction and a short history tree...

 

Where's the spin?

 

 

In your post (I was talking about your entire post, not the little snippet I quoted) you only seemed to focus on the negatives of the cell and on the nice aspects of the 360s processor. Just seemed a little one sidded.

 

Something more along the lines of:

 

Carmack concedes that the PS3 is a more powerful platform saying "the PS3 has more peak performance on there and that
Edited by LostStraw
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Haitoku

Haitoku

Posted
Posted
People don't ask for links regarding information like this? Well, welcome to the real world, where not everyone will believe every piece of rubbish you write. You know, you're more and more beginning to resemble the infamous Epiphany..

 

What!? He actually exist... I thought it was just some urban legend. :ph34r:

 

I've also never heard anything about SE and FFXIII on the technical side.

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LoneWolf16

LoneWolf16

Posted
Posted

*Shudders at the name "Epiphany"*

 

That guy was like the freight train of fanboism...

I had thought that some of nature's journeymen had made men and not made them well, for they imitated humanity so abominably. - Book of Counted Sorrows

 

'Cause I won't know the man that kills me

and I don't know these men I kill

but we all wind up on the same side

'cause ain't none of us doin' god's will.

- Everlast

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StillLife

StillLife

Posted
Posted
I have no interest in doing anyones homework.  In the newsgroups I post in, people don't ask for links regarding information like this, as what I'm discussing here, and what we discuss there is common knowledge in the industry.

 

When tossing quotes, specifications, and statics around, you really should provide links.

 

Usually I take people at their word and rarely ask for links on forums, but I've noticed several things you've mentioned in the past were in fact, completely untrue. Like earlier when you mentioned how the Xbox 360 is selling great in Japan, or better than the Xbox? That was a fabrication. Didn't bother calling you on it earlier, but enough is enough:

 

Dec 2005

 

Inital Sales Figures

 

Initial sales of Microsoft
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10k fists

10k fists

Posted
Posted
Usually I take people at their word and rarely ask for links on forums, but I've noticed several things you've mentioned in the past were in fact, completely untrue.  Like earlier when you mentioned how the Xbox 360 is selling great in Japan, or better than the Xbox?  That was a fabrication.  Didn't bother calling you on it earlier, but enough is enough:

 

Most people are prone to being a bit off every once in a while when trying to recall facts from memory, and given these are just message boards which are primarily for entertainment purposes, it's not really a big deal.  Severely miscontruing facts in an attempt to "win" discussions is really unnecessary though.

 

I don't believe I frabricated, nor do I believe I said it was selling "great". I did however wrongly state it was selling better than the original Xbox did. But if you could point out more of these "several" things that were untrue that you opted not to point out? Try to avoid the "chuck patch" as that one was covered, and just a quick mistake on my part.

 

So that's two, which isn't several. :blink:

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Craigboy2

Craigboy2

Posted
Posted
question:  did the PS3 have any titles on display at E3 that were actually running on PS3 hardware?

Well it ran on something that was much bigger than what they told us the PS3 would look like.

"Your total disregard for the law and human decency both disgusts me and touches my heart. Bless you, sir."

"Soilent Green is people. This guy's just a homeless heroin junkie who got in a internet caf

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