Haitoku Posted June 2, 2006 Posted June 2, 2006 Sony is really trying to kick start the Blu-ray player... http://www.ps3portal.com/general/article/428.html Not a bad start, The Da Vinci Code is also suppose to be released around that time.
Llyranor Posted June 2, 2006 Posted June 2, 2006 How much does one Bluray movie cost, anyway? (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
Haitoku Posted June 2, 2006 Posted June 2, 2006 How much does one Bluray movie cost, anyway? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> $20.00... Not bad, I think. More info... http://ps3.qj.net/SEGA-Europe-Reveals-PS3-...pg/49/aid/49592 $59.00 - $69.00 is... expensive.
LostStraw Posted June 2, 2006 Posted June 2, 2006 How much does one Bluray movie cost, anyway? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Between 30$-40$ Walmart (preorders)
Llyranor Posted June 2, 2006 Posted June 2, 2006 OMG CONFLICTING INFO (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
Cantousent Posted June 2, 2006 Posted June 2, 2006 I don't know about the cost of the movies, but I'm not buying a PS3 based on the blue-ray. Taken out of context or not, Sony has espoused some ridiculous positions. Frankly, the context doesn't always even help. Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!
Haitoku Posted June 2, 2006 Posted June 2, 2006 OMG CONFLICTING INFO <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Gimme a second to dig up my source.
Haitoku Posted June 2, 2006 Posted June 2, 2006 Argh... Can't find the link. Anyways, Target, Walmart and Bestbuy are reporting prices $19.99 - $29.99 (newer movies costing the most). The average price seems to be $24.95 though.
Llyranor Posted June 2, 2006 Posted June 2, 2006 In other news, Squenix, forgetting the concept of multi-discs, has justified the PS3-exclusivity of FFXIII/FFversuswhatever by pointing out how one DVD couldn't possibly be able to contain the 'type of visual expression' being produced in those games. Because that's the main reason! (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
Haitoku Posted June 2, 2006 Posted June 2, 2006 In other news, Squenix, forgetting the concept of multi-discs, has justified the PS3-exclusivity of FFXIII/FFversuswhatever by pointing out how one DVD couldn't possibly be able to contain the 'type of visual expression' being produced in those games. Because that's the main reason! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ha! In other news, In a recent PSM2 interview, Hideo Kojima had some interesting things to say about the PS3... more specificly, it's limitations.
alanschu Posted June 2, 2006 Posted June 2, 2006 (edited) >>>I wonder what consumers really think when they talk about good tools/environment and whatnot. It's not like the games code themselves.<<< think of a programming environment (say, for instance, Visual C++). you have the ability to Run the program to test it and also to MAKE EXE. but, instead of one MAKE EXE option, you have 2: (Windows) and (Xbox 360). the compiler knows what to do differently for the 360 than for PC...you don't have to reinvent the wheel. anyway, I am not a game designer but this is, apparently, out there and in use. we simply don't know whether Sony has provided intuitive, user-friendly tools like this but, the hunch is, they have probably not. I know what tools are, and I've seen an XBOX 360 devkit. I was wondering if a typical consumer knows. Often it's abbreviated IDE. You have just given a barebones description of developers tools. Nothing you mentioned will be missing from PS3 devtools. It's not like they're just going to have a console and are going to have to make their own C compiler. Unless you're suggesting that they have to burn their builds to a disc to test them. People frequently talk about how awesome the 360 devtools are, and how crappy the PS3 devtools are. Based on what? Just the testimonials of people speaking on behalf of Microsoft at a press event? Especially considering the question that I asked and you responded to (regarding multithreading). Unless there's some magical "Click here to multithread your program" button (I doubt it), programmers are still going to need to know how to program a multithreaded application. You implied that the 360 will allow for easier multithreading based on its magical devtools. I'm not sure how you're qualified to say that. Are you trying to compare Cell to Xenon? The three symetrical cores on Xenon are far easier to code for than the PPE and SPEs on Cell... The entire process of Cell is for the PPE to "conduct" the SPEs, and for all normal purposes, the SPEs will not be run as independant processors, rather slaves to the PPE, which in itself is weaker than a single Xenon core. Claiming that once developers get the hang of Xenon, the transistion to Cell isn't costly is crazy. The only glarring similarity between the two processors is the fact that both happen to be in-order processors. Really? Wow, I was unaware that the processors were different. There's always going to be issues surrounding different architecture. But, for the most part, tools take care of it. I don't need to learn how to program in a different C language to code a program for a PowerPC chip or a SPARC processor, which have significantly different architectures than an x86 processor that a Windows machine runs on, if I have even a mediocre compiler. People state that the 8 cores are more difficult to code for than the 3 cores, simply because of numbers. This is wrong. There will be some differences based on the capabilities of the cores. But that just means there's a restriction on what you can thread. It doesn't have to make things significantly more difficult to thread. Edited June 2, 2006 by alanschu
10k fists Posted June 2, 2006 Posted June 2, 2006 Really? Wow, I was unaware that the processors were different. There's always going to be issues surrounding different architecture. But, for the most part, tools take care of it. I don't need to learn how to program in a different C language to code a program for a PowerPC chip or a SPARC processor, which have significantly different architectures than an x86 processor that a Windows machine runs on, if I have even a mediocre compiler. People state that the 8 cores are more difficult to code for than the 3 cores, simply because of numbers. This is wrong. There will be some differences based on the capabilities of the cores. But that just means there's a restriction on what you can thread. It doesn't have to make things significantly more difficult to thread. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I didn't claim it was an entirely different programing language, but the processors are not the same. They have completely different theories, and you don't "code for eight cores" on Cell. Unless you're a developer with a massive budget and a 5+ year timeframe, you're going to utilize the PPE the best you can (won't be too diffficult - as it's a "standard" core in a sense), and then you're going to try and offload various tasks to some of the SPEs, through the PPE - which is the complicated part and where Cell goes a completely different direction than Xenon. There's nothing symetrical about Cell, so learning to program for Xenon is a lot easier, as you only learn to code for a single core, and you've suddenly "learned" all three. Cell is a completely different beast, and many developers not direcly linked to Sony's wallet have echoed similar comments. They all say the same thing, Xbox 360 has a better GPU and is way easier to code for, PS3 has a better processor, higher theoretical power, and is much more difficult to program for. Hell, Square-Enix just got through complaining about shaders being difficult.... The eight potential cores in Cell, added to the fact that seven of those cores are SPEs do make things difficult to thread, from a video game perspective. Since the SPEs are incredibly weak at branch prediction (ie - utter waste of resources to attempt it) it forces developers to have the PPE process the logic in a games code, which isn't a problem, but when a thread is being used for that, you're only left with one more thread on the PPE, and that's either going to be used to delegate small tasks to the SPEs, or ignoring the SPEs all together, and running the rest of the code through it.
alanschu Posted June 2, 2006 Posted June 2, 2006 (edited) I didn't claim it was an entirely different programing language, but the processors are not the same. They have completely different theories, There's nothing similar between a SPARC processor and an x86 processor either. Stating that they are different processors is obvious, and actually doesn't demonstrate anything. and you don't "code for eight cores" on Cell. I'm not the one that makes the claims about it being more difficult to code for because it's 8 versus 3. Blame Microsoft fanboys. There's nothing symetrical about Cell, so learning to program for Xenon is a lot easier, as you only learn to code for a single core, and you've suddenly "learned" all three. .... The difficulty is not in learning how to code for a particular core. The difficulty is learning how to program multithreaded programs. Learning how to code for a particular "processor" is easy. And usually, it's taken care of for you when you use a compiler. Unless you're suggesting that Sony isn't shipping with any compilers... Also, coding for a "processor" is misnomer, because unless you start coding in assembler, people haven't really been programming for a processor since compilers were invented....since that's the entire purpose of a compiler....to compile code for a processor. many developers not direcly linked to Sony's wallet have echoed similar comments Naturally, Microsoft would never have any companies linked to their wallet. Edited June 2, 2006 by alanschu
Plano Skywalker Posted June 2, 2006 Posted June 2, 2006 People frequently talk about how awesome the 360 devtools are, and how crappy the PS3 devtools are. Based on what? Just the testimonials of people speaking on behalf of Microsoft at a press event? Especially considering the question that I asked and you responded to (regarding multithreading). Unless there's some magical "Click here to multithread your program" button (I doubt it), programmers are still going to need to know how to program a multithreaded application. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> the bottom line is we do not know anything except what the vendors want us to know...the devs really can't say anything at this time. "click here to multithread your program".....that is the real question, I'll admit and I don't think anyone here who knows can or will say anything about it. and even though there is a curve of diminishing returns (in terms of difficulty), as you say, once you start dealing with multithreaded programming, 3 is still different from 8. and the master/slave arrangement that the other poster mentioned adds even more mischief. it can, of course, be done. the question is whether developers will think it worthwhile for the time and money they have to spend on it.
Setzer Posted June 2, 2006 Posted June 2, 2006 I find it pretty damn funny that a majority of you think the 360 will win the console war. Microsoft practically has ZERO support in Japan and that's where a good chunk of your sales is going to come from. If Microsoft can't get support in Japan then it's not going to stand a chance against Sony and Nintendo. I have nothing against the 360, I think it's a great console but I won't spend $400 on a console thats library of games is limited to FPS and Sports titles. I think Microsoft has a good shot at placing #2 but that's only if Sony fails.
Plano Skywalker Posted June 2, 2006 Posted June 2, 2006 MS intentionally delayed some of the better titles so there would not be a drought of games after lauch. I agree, most of what is out there now is not too impressive.
Deraldin Posted June 2, 2006 Posted June 2, 2006 MS intentionally delayed some of the better titles so there would not be a drought of games after lauch. I agree, most of what is out there now is not too impressive. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Too bad they didn't release some of them to combat the drought at launch... <_<
Plano Skywalker Posted June 2, 2006 Posted June 2, 2006 and, like I say, RPGs are great and will help with the Japanese market....however, there are other types of games such as dating sims and board games (Go and Mahjong-type games) that will sell in Japan. they need these types of titles if they *seriously* want to sell in Japan.
Haitoku Posted June 2, 2006 Posted June 2, 2006 I find it pretty damn funny that a majority of you think the 360 will win the console war. Microsoft practically has ZERO support in Japan and that's where a good chunk of your sales is going to come from. That assumes M$ is going to invest A LOT of money in trying to get the Xbox 360 to take off in Japan. Sony and M$ don't treat JP and NA the same way... Sony needs the console to take off in both regions, while M$ can really do without the JP support (Xbox eventually made money correct? Even with the lousy JP sales).
Plano Skywalker Posted June 2, 2006 Posted June 2, 2006 Sony and M$ don't treat JP and NA the same way... Sony needs the console to take off in both regions, while M$ can really do without the JP support (Xbox eventually made money correct? Even with the lousy JP sales). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> that is a good point...even if MS only ended up with, say, 15% of the Japanese market, that would establish what they need established in that market. they don't have to dominate the market outright, they just need a plausible presence in Asia and Japan in particular.
Setzer Posted June 2, 2006 Posted June 2, 2006 I find it pretty damn funny that a majority of you think the 360 will win the console war. Microsoft practically has ZERO support in Japan and that's where a good chunk of your sales is going to come from. That assumes M$ is going to invest A LOT of money in trying to get the Xbox 360 to take off in Japan. Sony and M$ don't treat JP and NA the same way... Sony needs the console to take off in both regions, while M$ can really do without the JP support (Xbox eventually made money correct? Even with the lousy JP sales). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> My point is, Sony & Nintendo have always been able to get support in both regions while MS hasn't been able to get support in Japan and that's why MS won't win the console war. I agree, MS can still make money off the 360 w/o JP support but it needs JP support to get to the top, imo. I believe Xbox narrowly outsold the GameCube, I don't have the exact figures but that was mainly due to the lack of 2nd & 3rd party support Nintendo had. In fact, it's last 2 consoles have had lousy support and they've relied heavily on it's 1st party games(zelda, mario, metroid, etc.).
Cantousent Posted June 2, 2006 Posted June 2, 2006 Not only that, but I think it would be great to see Sony lose some of its share. It's really quite galling that a nationalist market is able to hold console manufacturers hostage. My sincere hope is that the console market in other areas matures and that the Japanese market becomes increasingly less significant. I don't mind the fact that the Japanese consumer prefers Japanese games. What I do mind is the fact that they appear to prefer Japanese games because of nationalism. Inasmuchas the Japanese consumers are acting out of their personal desires, I have no problem. When they act out of nationalism, however, then it doesn't make sense for Microsoft to expend much effort or money trying to create Japanese style games. As long as they want something "made in Japan," Microsoft can't do much to penetrate the market. Still, we'll see how everything unfolds. For one, I'm much closer now to buying an XBox 360 than ever. My thinking is, if XBox can make a good showing, then maybe the hold on developing houses might loosen and then we won't be screwed when we buy a particular console. Then it really will be a matter of looking for the best system rather than looking for the best software line-up. Why can't they essentially have the same software line-up? ...And who is so ridiculously stupid to believe that the situation, as it exists, benefits the consumer? Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community: Happy Holidays Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:Obsidian Plays Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris. Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!
Nartwak Posted June 2, 2006 Posted June 2, 2006 (edited) I believe Xbox narrowly outsold the GameCube, I don't have the exact figures but that was mainly due to the lack of 2nd & 3rd party support Nintendo had. In fact, it's last 2 consoles have had lousy support and they've relied heavily on it's 1st party games(zelda, mario, metroid, etc.). Did he ask if the Xbox outsold the GameCube or did he ask if the Xbox made money? Edited June 2, 2006 by Nartwak
Setzer Posted June 2, 2006 Posted June 2, 2006 Did he ask if the Xbox outsold the GameCube or did he ask if the Xbox made money? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, he didn't. I was just stating that MS was able to get the #2 spot last round w/o having any support in Japan and I think the 360 will be in the same position this round unless they can miraculously get people in Japan to start buying 360s. The point of this whole thread is who's going to win the console war NOT about who's making money. In fact, no one but maybe Nintendo will be making any money. Right now MS is losing money on every 360 it sells and Sony will lose money on every PS3 it sells. Nintendo's Wii, which is basically a glorified GameCube, will probably sell for around $250 and it wouldn't surprise me if Nintendo profited from it.
Nartwak Posted June 2, 2006 Posted June 2, 2006 Oh sorry, I forgot that making money wasn't important.
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