New NWN2 OC estimate of 30-40 hrs

[Morgoth]

Now just look at this!

 

Here's one fragment from the chat:

 

May 26 02:56:07 <[DLA]Steel_Wind> Atari is near insolvency and is deperate that NWN2 succeed. They don't give a rat's ass about DLA horses.

 

Near insolvency? Now I wouldn't wonder if an Atari exe drops into the Obs offices and says "Hey, you gonna ship that **** in four weeks or else...".

"Obs devs cry in chorus": Ohhhhh Noeees!!!!!!!!!!

[alanschu]

WTF is insolvency?

[Morgoth]

WTF is insolvency?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You know, gonna bankruptcy... no money.

[213374U]

I'd rather have a vague gamelength.

 

Part of the gaming experience that I enjoy is discovering that stuff for myself.

 

To each his own I guess.  I don't really follow the press releases a whole lot anyways, in order to avoid spoilers.

Huh? What are you talking about? How are some broad facts going to spoil your game? All right, maybe telling exactly how many major areas are there could be a spoiler, as after a while you could suspect you were reaching the endgame (in the unlikely event that you couldn't tell because of plot gimmicks). But otherwise, telling that there may be about X relevant NPCs (not necessarily joinable), over Y word written dialogues, and around Z sidequests gives a much better idea of the scope of the game and its complexity without actually giving anything away. It's such an effective teaser method, in fact, that you can see comments of that sort printed on the back of the boxes of many games. Don't you read those either, for fear of being spoiled? What do you rely on to make a decision then?

[alanschu]

WTF is insolvency?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You know, gonna bankruptcy... no money.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

That's what I figured. I just haven't heard it called that before.

 

 

Huh? What are you talking about? How are some broad facts going to spoil your game? All right, maybe telling exactly how many major areas are there could be a spoiler

 

It would be for me. Especially if the game turns out to be longer than expected. The best thing I remember about Deus Ex (aside from the fact that it's an all round excellent game anyways) was that there was about 2 or 3 different areas where I figured I was at the end game, only to find out that I wasn't and there was more game to be played.

 

But otherwise, telling that there may be about X relevant NPCs (not necessarily joinable), over Y word written dialogues, and around Z sidequests gives a much better idea of the scope of the game and its complexity without actually giving anything away. It's such an effective teaser method, in fact, that you can see comments of that sort printed on the back of the boxes of many games. Don't you read those either, for fear of being spoiled? What do you rely on to make a decision then?

 

Well, X relevant NPCs would be bad, as I wouldn't help but be able to keep count. Y word dialogues would be fine, and around Z sidequests would be a wash.

 

Though I don't typically see X or Z on the back of the box, but sometimes Y (which I can live with).

 

As for my purchasing decisions, I do still follow the game a bit. NWN2 is a game I'm likely going to buy anyways, so I'll just listen to the general hub bub about it. If it's a game I'm uncertain about, I'll look into it a bit further. Feature sets interest me, as well as gameplay mechanics. I do read the back of the box, but I've yet to really find anything that indicates X or Z. If I do, it's typically so vague that it's "hundreds of sidequests." Never anything like "About 50 sidequests." At least not that I can remember. The only time I could imagine seeing it would be if it was a really high number, to the point where I'd likely just be skeptical as to what they call a sidequest. It might have something to do with the time I read the back of Star Ocean 2 (I game I actually didn't mind) and saw that it said it had 80 different endings. I guess if you look at all the permutations of Character X was not in party, Character X was in party, Character X liked you but you didn't like her back, Character X loves you and you love Character X, then I guess yeah.

 

I did my reading up about the toolset (which was important in my decision) as well as the basic plot of the game to get an idea of what the story will be like. At this point I have decided I'm going to get the game, so rather than risk spoiling parts of it, I haven't been really following it all that much at all.

 

But I'm a guy that turns the channel immediately when the credits of 24 come on so that I don't accidentally see the "Next week on 24," and I close my eyes and go "lalalala" (with my roommate ) when a commercial of it comes on.

 

 

I think a lot of it has to do with my HL2 experience as well. I played Half-Life knowing virtually nothing about the game, so it was cool as everything was new. Being a huge Half-Life fanboy, I followed Half-Life 2 and got every tidbit of information I could on the game. As a result, seeing things like the Striders and Gravity Gun were less novel than they could have been. Especially considering they wouldn't have affected my decision to purchase the game.

 

 

And believe it or not, I tend to agree with review scores, particularly metascores. I downloaded the Shadowgrounds demo becomes Steam told me it had a metascore of 81. I really enjoyed it. Though probably not enough to buy it. I also play demos of games that I have never heard of or haven't really followed. If I enjoy the demo, I'll buy the game. This can be spoilerish, although demos tend to be the beginning of most games anyways, so it's more of a moot point. It's also less relevant because I'm still experiencing the situation while playing the game, so the effect is the same as if I had purchased the game. I'm a big fan of demos. They also give me the all to important "how does the game play" answer. Trespasser was an unbelievably nice looking game....thank god I never bought it and played it (though reading reviews of it was quite entertaining).

[Hassat Hunter]

It seems the lack of posting was giving people plenty to criticize about.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't...

 

I also play demos of games that I have never heard of or haven't really followed.  If I enjoy the demo, I'll buy the game.  This can be spoilerish, although demos tend to be the beginning of most games anyways, so it's more of a moot point.

 

Anyways, it seems like alot of people missed my post which I used to necro this thread; so here it is again:

 

BW casts "Revive +1"

 

In a preview in the PCGameplay Feargus said the following about gametime;

Main-quest only 30 hours

+(large part of the) Side quests 40+ hours

 

There could be other new info in the preview, but I didn't really follow NWN2 production, so I have no idea what is already well known and what not...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[kalimeeri]

I don't pre-order any more--first because while Amazon offers good deals on pre-order, several times I've ended up getting the game after most other folks have nearly finished it; and second, because most games these days disappoint. It almost forces you to read the reviews, just to be sure what you're getting into. When it comes to mindless button-mashing sequences, that's where we part ways. I'm almost willing to take a shorter game that is replayable from a story aspect, instead of one where I'm too frustrated to finish at all.

[Gromnir]

when the dm client were killed the bio board population went nuts. how did obsidian respond? a couple days later we find out that the dm client is back in... sorta. now the dm client is gonna be released contemporeaneous with nwn2. should be a lesson to boardies.

 

The DM Client was never killed according to Obsidian.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

as far as Gromnir is aware, the dm client will not be included with the game you buys in the store. s'posedley there were plans to eventually release the dm client down the road, at some later date, when you wish 'pon a star. given atari's financial situation, if nwn2 don't sell well what is probability that dm client would ever have been released? regardless, the dm client were killed.

 

fan outcry (outcry that were not present when we heard that the nwn2 oc would be no more than 20 hours for most people,) suddenly results in an announcement that the dm client would be released as a free download on same day as nwn2 release.

 

hours o' gameplay announcements tends to bite the developers in the arse... but Gromnir ain't a developer. the obsidian developers were very aware that after HoW were so woefully short of announced hours and they subsequently suffered so much negative fan feedback that fergie felt compelled to throw us a bone: TotL. no doubt this is why nobody could gets a obsidian developer to directly confront the 20 hour rumors. go back and read some of josh's posts on the subject. he were very careful NOT to give no estimate. too bad.

 

lucky for us it is that nathan didn't get the memo 'bout not giving time estimates. now we got an obsidian developer who said "30-40+ hours." now anybody who gets less hours can throw that back at 'em... and that is a good thing. as eldar notes, if only a small handful o' pepole is complaining that nwn2 is only 20 hours, then nathan's quote not matter.... but if there is LOTS o' people complaining... once you makes an hour estimate the fanbase treats such estimates as an entitlement. if game had been 25 hours for most people w/o no 30-40+ estimate there would still be complaints 'bout paltry hours, but there would not be the Liar and Cheat kinda stuff we saw following HoW. too bad for obsidian, but good for us... 'cause now obsidian gots more motivation (if only a little,) to make sure that the campaign matches nathan's estimates... and no 'mount of rearguard defensive posting on nathan's part will save obsidian from the terrible feedback that is to follow if the sp oc campaign is short.

 

oh, and while it is nathan that is gonna get stuck looking like a yutz if game is short, the person at obsidian who should be taking the blame is fergie. nathan might have been a bit naive as he tried to fix fergie's error with his "30-40+" estimate, but nathan would never have found himself in the unfortunate postion o' feeling like he had to reassure the board community if it had not been for fergie's initial mistake o' giving a 20 hour estimate to a German rag.

 

we felt a little guilty 'bout setting nathan up likes we did over at the bio boards. which is why we kinda let the subject drop. didn't think more needed to be said. unfortunate it is that we got nathan trying to fix his mistake. our original intent were to draw fergie or josh out to confront the 20 hour fergie estimate. josh were evasive. fergie simply didn't respond. we had to settle for nathan... but as much as we feels bad for nathan, we just can't lets him get up off tha canvas so easy. if he had just stayed down we would not need to continue posting on the subject.

 

oh well.

 

"30-40+" come september you is gonna see that quoted lots... but obsidian does gotta choice 'bout how painful that estimate needs be. the shorter and weaker the campaign is, the more they is gonna have to hear.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited May 27, 2006 by Gromnir

[alanschu]

as far as Gromnir is aware, the dm client will not be included with the game you buys in the store. s'posedley there were plans to eventually release the dm client down the road, at some later date, when you wish 'pon a star. given atari's financial situation, if nwn2 don't sell well what is probability that dm client would ever have been released? regardless, the dm client were killed.

 

If Atari is out of the picture, then Obsidian could probably patch it in without having to worry about Atari's approval. If anything, I would think it would be easier to patch it in if Atari was gone.

[Gromnir]

as far as Gromnir is aware, the dm client will not be included with the game you buys in the store. s'posedley there were plans to eventually release the dm client down the road, at some later date, when you wish 'pon a star. given atari's financial situation, if nwn2 don't sell well what is probability that dm client would ever have been released? regardless, the dm client were killed.

 

If Atari is out of the picture, then Obsidian could probably patch it in without having to worry about Atari's approval. If anything, I would think it would be easier to patch it in if Atari was gone.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

you is assuming a sudden and complete death of atari? it don't usually work like that. throws a fish onto the river bank and watch as it flails 'bout in the dust. not die immediate even if death is inevitable. atari is banking on nwn2. if nwn2 fails, then atari will almost assuredly die... but not in september or october and probably not even in november.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[alanschu]

If Atari is banking on this game for their financial future, then I doubt they'd hold up a patch that could potentially make them more money.

 

Unless Atari is the ones patching in the DM Client, I doubt they'd really have any bearing on it aside from giving a rubber stamp of approval and praying to the game gods that it helps them sell more copies.

[Gromnir]

the dm client will make them nothing.

 

the number of folks that rely on the dm client is so small as to be almost pointless as far as totla sales is concerned. sure, Gromnir is one of those pointless people, but atari don't care 'bout + or - 1% sales. waste any resources on + - 1%?

 

btw, how did atari react to toee patching?

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Volourn]

Until Atari dies, they have full power over the game (along with WOTC and Hasbro). After they die, it'll be all WOTC and co.

 

Anyways, why is this topic uP? It's dead. People like Grom got their answer. Let's move on. "

[alanschu]

the dm client will make them nothing.

 

the number of folks that rely on the dm client is so small as to be almost pointless as far as totla sales is concerned.  sure, Gromnir is one of those pointless people, but atari don't care 'bout + or - 1% sales.  waste any resources on + - 1%?

 

btw, how did atari react to toee patching?

 

HA! Good Fun!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Only if it's Atari spending the money on patching in the DM Client. I figure it's still part of Atari's initial investment to have a DM Client. Anything past the deadline then Obsidian is footing the bill.

 

As for TOEE, was Atari counting on it to be an unquestionably huge smash success in order to simply survive?

 

Since we're all just speculating, I speculate that the DM Client patch was, is, and always will be Obsidian's doing, not Atari's.

[Gromnir]

again, the dm client will not be difference 'tween smash it and failure... and is not like developers patch games for free. might obsidian do so if atari won't pay them? would atari let them? is speculation on your part that they would... but we is getting beyond any sorta o' reasonable conjecture and is simply guessing at this point. is pretty tough to be confident once we is in realm of complete speculation.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Jora]

btw, how did atari react to toee patching?

They didn't want to spend any resources on it so Troika had to test the patches with fans. They also didn't answer Troika's e-mails concerning a patch for weeks. In other words, they didn't want to have anything do to with the game.

Edited May 27, 2006 by Jora

[Volourn]

Atari ok'ed 3 patches (though the last one was a quicky for one specific problem)for TOEE. That should be enough for a SP PC game. Afterall, BIO's KOTOR only had 3 patches I believe.

 

I think nowadays, one patch is pretty much a given (sadly). Anymore it's good.

Edited May 27, 2006 by Volourn

[alanschu]

again, the dm client will not be difference 'tween smash it and failure... and is not like developers patch games for free.  might obsidian do so if atari won't pay them?  would atari let them?  is speculation on your part that they would... but we is getting beyond any sorta o' reasonable conjecture and is simply guessing at this point.  is pretty tough to be confident once we is in realm of complete speculation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Fair enough. I think they would, you think they wouldn't.

 

I think Obsidian would, since there obviously is some demand for it. If it makes absolutely no difference, then why did they suddenly readd it?

 

when the dm client were killed the bio board population went nuts. how did obsidian respond? a couple days later we find out that the dm client is back in... sorta. now the dm client is gonna be released contemporeaneous with nwn2. should be a lesson to boardies.

 

The impression I got was that you were trying to say the criticism or whatever resulted in Obsidian's response to put the DM Client in. If it makes no difference to Atari and Obsidian, and is only a waste of resources, then why did they add it when people voiced their displeasure? It makes no sense to do it if they get zero benefit from it.

[Dark_Raven]

Until Atari dies, they have full power over the game (along with WOTC and Hasbro). After they die, it'll be all WOTC and co.

 

Anyways, why is this topic uP? It's dead. People like Grom got their answer. Let's move on. "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But beating a dead horse is fun?

[Volourn]

"But beating a dead horse is fun?"

 

Huh? This directed at me for what? :ph34r:

Edited May 27, 2006 by Volourn

[Dark_Raven]

Don't be so arrogant Volo, assuming I meant you.

 

I meant everyone posting in this.

[Volourn]

"Don't be so arrogant Volo, assuming I meant you."

 

Heh. It's not in my nature *not* to be arrogant.