NWN 2 DM Client will not ship with the game

[Llyranor]

Are there?  Prove it.

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Ever been to Neverwinter Connections?

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That's a lot of people!

[Judge Hades]

Yep, and NWN on average has 2000 to 2500 people online at almost any given time and about a tenth of that are DMs using DM clients in either PWs or through small group gaming. One of the major selling points of NWN online was a DM. It is what made NWN the closest DnD CRPG to PnP. If you take away the DM in PnP you don't have a game. Same applies here.

[Llyranor]

Wow! That's about 0.1% of the people who bought the game playing online at any one time!

[Judge Hades]

Percentages are meaningless. That is still a lot of people who use or are affected by the use of the DM Client. It is an essential element of playing NWN online.

[Gromnir]

"Afterall, the most recent article has it in the 30+ hours range. Think of that, SUCKA!"

 

HA!

 

you is the fool who just pointed out that josh answered the Q already. you recall what josh's answere were? no? josh said that no answer 'bout game hours were possible at this time.

 

...

 

so, who told one previewer that game would be at least 30. who told another reviewer that game would be 40? so far the only estimate we got attributed to an obsinatie is 20 hours, and that estimate were from fergie himself. you happily cite 30+ hours AND claims that josh answered question.

 

...

 

 

oh, and the threads that is dying... ain't dying so much as they is being killed. is not the same thing.

 

let fergie makes you into a clown if you wish... ain't gonna happen to Gromnir.

 

"Basically, I give the benefit of the doubt. It doesn't make me a fool."

 

so you willfully ignore reality, but ain't a fool? okie dokie.

 

personally, when it comes to Faith, we save such things for our God, and fergie has not shown that he deserves similar consideration.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited May 12, 2006 by Gromnir

[Volourn]

"that estimate were from fergie himself"

 

No. It was attributed to them through a deciphering on the Codex boards from some German magazine/site. Nice try though.

 

 

Anyways, good tatic. on trying to take over this topic!

[Llyranor]

Percentages are meaningless.  That is still a lot of people who use or are affected by the use of the DM Client.  It is an essential element of playing NWN online.

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Which is exactly why it should be rushed out.

[Volourn]

"Which is exactly why it should be rushed out. "

 

No. It's why it should be part of the actual game... if that means the game should be delayed so be it. SP will buy the game whenever it comes out (at leats the ones here).

 

Everybody here talks about what the 'masses' want like they actually know. LOL :D

 

 

I'll stick with detailing my own selfish needs, and wants from this game.

Edited May 12, 2006 by Volourn

[Judge Hades]

Taking a gander on the NWN 2 forums at BIO Sawyer had this to say about the issue:

 

Guys, there are plenty of issues over which I would gleefully blame the publisher. This is not one of them. We (Obsidian) defined the overall scope of the game and the fact that the DM client got pushed out is our responsibility.

 

So there we have it. Its Obsidian's fault, squarely all their fault.

[Gromnir]

"that estimate were from fergie himself"

 

No. It was attributed to them through a deciphering on the Codex boards from some German magazine/site. Nice try though.

 

 

Anyways, good tatic. on trying to take over this topic!

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if it ain't actually a quote from fergie, then simplest expedient is to clarify.

 

so, you simply gonna ignores that your reliance on the josh answer conflicts with your acceptance of the 30+ hours number? hopes that would just go away maybe if you didn't respond? heck, why not, eh? fergie ignores tough Qs and he is the boss at obsidian. you just following his lead, right?

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Llyranor]

It doesn't matter what you want in an ideal world at this point. They can either:

 

1) Rush it.

 

2) Delay the game, which isn't going to happen unless Atari gives the nod. You should write a petition, maybe it'll work. You could probably get a good number of signatures, too.

 

3) Release the DMC later.

 

I don't care about the DMC, so 3 is better for me.

 

Or I guess they could 4) Screw the DMC.

[Llyranor]

Taking a gander on the NWN 2 forums at BIO Sawyer had this to say about the issue:

 

Guys, there are plenty of issues over which I would gleefully blame the publisher. This is not one of them. We (Obsidian) defined the overall scope of the game and the fact that the DM client got pushed out is our responsibility.

 

So there we have it. Its Obsidian's fault, squarely all their fault.

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It doesn't matter whose fault it is. Atari is the one who can delay the game.

[Judge Hades]

The game needs to be delayed then, but it won't be. We know it. I just know I will not be buying it until the DM Client is released and if by some miracle it is in the game at release then so much the better.

 

Also it does matter who's fault it is. At least it matters to me. Like I said, I don't want another kotOR 2.

Edited May 12, 2006 by Judge Hades

[Gromnir]

if obsidian can't get a quality product out by date X, then we thinks it is a good notion to delay client... is one of those aspects that most purchasers will not even miss if it ain't included.

 

...

 

'course a problem occurs if we apply same logic to other mp aspects of the game, and the toolset.

 

*shrug*

 

HA! Good Fun!

[alanschu]

Are there?  Prove it.

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Ever been to Neverwinter Connections?

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Nope.

[Volourn]

"so, you simply gonna ignores that your reliance on the josh answer conflicts with your acceptance of the 30+ hours number?"

 

Huh? I don't accept the 30+ hours estimate as fact. I'm using it as evdience that these previewers don't know whhat the length will be.. because Obsidian isn't 100% sure yet as evdienced by Mr. Sawyer's comments.

 

And, yeah, I'm all about sucking up the 'boss'.

 

Have you been reading this thread at all?

 

 

"'course a problem occurs if we apply same logic to other mp aspects of the game, and the toolset."

 

Or gnomes and halflings. Hardly anyone uses them. Might as well take away evil chocies in quests; because the majority of players play the game once and usuaully the good way so need for all the extra effort that will be poured into the evil part.

 

The more people say parts that only a minority would use cna be cut and no lose is what leads to a game being gutted all to heck. Just look at the existence of DDO and POR2 as proof.

[Llyranor]

I think the main question is, if Atari - for one reason or another - refuses to finance the work required to patch in the DMC, would Obs pay for it out-of-pocket?

[alanschu]

"Which is exactly why it should be rushed out. "

 

No. It's why it should be part of the actual game... if that means the game should be delayed so be it. SP will buy the game whenever it comes out (at leats the ones here).

 

Everybody here talks about what the 'masses' want like they actually know. LOL :D

 

 

I'll stick with detailing my own selfish needs, and wants from this game.

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Then I'd suggest waiting until the DM client comes out, if it is that big of a deal to you.

[Llyranor]

Didn't I answer this already?

 

Well, ofcourse my game experience changes.

 

Think I wanted to go through the OC with a friend using DM client... I can't!

 

Maybe the lure is so strong I play OC SP before the DL is available and then when I can play it with my friend all the exciting new things like exploring together are gone...

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[Volourn]

"Then I'd suggest waiting until the DM client comes out, if it is that big of a deal to you."

 

Read the entire thread, and come back to me on this comment. Thank you for your cooperation.

[Judge Hades]

I think the main question is, if Atari - for one reason or another - refuses to finance the work required to patch in the DMC, would Obs pay for it out-of-pocket?

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I highly doubt it. They don't have the resources that Bioware has. At best I am expecting NWN 2 to be as supported as KotOR 2.

Edited May 12, 2006 by Judge Hades

[LoneWolf16]

"Basically, I give the benefit of the doubt. It doesn't make me a fool."

 

so you willfully ignore reality, but ain't a fool? okie dokie.

 

personally, when it comes to Faith, we save such things for our God, and fergie has not shown that he deserves similar consideration.

 

HA! Good Fun!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, I'm not paranoid and haven't come around to your way of blatantly negative thinking? Of course, I must be a fool. It's all so clear to me now...and this "reality" you speak of...it's news to me.

[alanschu]

Didn't I answer this already?

 

Well, ofcourse my game experience changes.

 

Think I wanted to go through the OC with a friend using DM client... I can't!

 

Maybe the lure is so strong I play OC SP before the DL is available and then when I can play it with my friend all the exciting new things like exploring together are gone...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

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Excellent point! I keep forgetting that developers should be blamed for lack of willpower!

[alanschu]

"Then I'd suggest waiting until the DM client comes out, if it is that big of a deal to you."

 

Read the entire thread, and come back to me on this comment. Thank you for your cooperation.

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I have. And I stand by my statement. If people are that interested in the DM Client, then I am saying straight up that they should not buy this game.

 

If they think that this is unappropriate for whatever reason, then they should not buy this game.

 

If they believe that it somehow encourages developers to do acts like this in the future, and they don't want it to happen in the future, then they should not buy this game.

 

If Obsidian's actions indicate the slippery slope of doom and destruction of game development, then they should not buy this game.

 

If you are still interested in the game and the DM Client, then the only condition under which they should buy the game is after the DM Client is released. Not before. Not under imminent release, or anything else like that. Only after. And only if none of the previously mentioned deal breakers applies to them.

 

If this pisses off Battlewookie so much, then he should not buy the game. If this pisses off Hades so much, then he should not buy the game. I agree 100% with the notion that you should vote with your money. Gromnir seems to understand this, and (combined with other issues such as game length) seems to actually be considering avoiding a purchase of this game.

 

 

I don't buy games that don't interest me. If the DM Client was all I cared about, I would not buy this game. If the DM Client was highly valued by me, then I would not buy this game. The only condition under which I would consider buying the game, is after the DM Client is released.

[Gromnir]

"Huh? I don't accept the 30+ hours estimate as fact. I'm using it as evdience that these previewers don't know whhat the length will be.. because Obsidian isn't 100% sure yet as evdienced by Mr. Sawyer's comments."

 

&

 

"Afterall, the most recent article has it in the 30+ hours range. Think of that, SUCKA!"

 

...

 

kinda loses punch when you read 'em together, no?

 

 

so the previewers is just coming up with numbers on their own? is the numbers they is reporting coming from atari or from obsidian? if obsidian why is they coming at all. if atari is the folks behind the estimates, then say so... but that still leaves us with the only estimate attributed to an obsinatie (please looks up word "attributed," this time,) being the fergie estimate.

 

oh, and in case you not noticed, if the issue is dead, then why is you still arguing it?

 

in any event, if you simply accepts the pap disguised as explanations you is getting from obsidian then you is indeed fergie's clown... dance and caper for him some more. he would be much happier if everybody else were willing to put on the motley so readily.

 

HA! Good Fun!