NWN 2 DM Client will not ship with the game

[Llyranor]

Hades might wan't to pull back the Release date I just wan't the same releasedate for the Full package. Don't need to send everything a month back... just make sure it is all finished at shipping time... if you can't; you do not deserve the cash we shell out...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So basically you WANT them to rush in a poorly implemented feature.

[Hassat Hunter]

I called the car broken. NWN 2 is fine, but missing a feature. 

 

And in order to rest one's case, one must first have a case.

 

The car WAS NWN2.

 

Never a case? Sure; go ahead. Spread a signal to the gaming dev. community that you happily shell out cash to half-finished games IF you get a vague promise that you will get the other half later.

[LoneWolf16]

Beat me to it, Lyr.

 

Nope. The car was a car. It may have been intended as a metaphor, but it was a poor one for the situation. A better one would be a car missing its DVD player...a pleasing future not necessary for the use of the car which most people wont use since they'll be driving the car.

 

No, that's not the message we're sending either. I'm just stating facts. It's how it is, and no amount of complaining will change the logical nature of it, or that it's going to happen, regardless of what you want.

Edited May 12, 2006 by LoneWolf16

[Hassat Hunter]

So basically you WANT them to rush in a poorly implemented feature.

 

No. I want them to have the complete game done when they wan't to ship it. If they manage to **** one part I wonder; HOW? What came between it that made it neccessary that that one cannot be finished yet the others can on the specific time. If the answer is incompatance, which I expect, I will get a nasty feeling NWN2 will go bad... really bad...

[Llyranor]

Heh, remember when Bloodlines was supposed to have a persistant multiplayer gamemode?

[LoneWolf16]

Heh, remember when Bloodlines was supposed to have a persistant multiplayer gamemode?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, and it would have been neat, come to think of it.

[Llyranor]

Exactly. They should have cut more corners in the singleplayer game to make room for it.

 

After all, VTM: Redemption had multiplayer. Win-win.

[LostStraw]

Heh, remember when Bloodlines was supposed to have a persistant multiplayer gamemode?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I missed that, but I do remember when QFG5 was supposed to have mutliplayer. It didn't get in because Sierra closed the developer down. :frown:

[LoneWolf16]

There were corners left to cut?

[themadhatter114]

If you won't buy it without the the DM client, wait for it.

 

If some of us can enjoy the game without the DM client, why should we have to wait for it? It's the consumer's responsibility to look at the box and see what features are included.

 

I don't care about the DM client. I don't play much multiplayer. I'd rather not wait for the DM client if everything else is done. And for those who want to wait for it, they'll get it when the game would've been completely finished anyway. I don't see any problem. If the DM client is that important, stop being a ****ing baby and just wait to buy it when it has everything you want.

[LoneWolf16]

Wait for it...here it comes!

[Llyranor]

He already explained why simply waiting wouldn't work.

 

Well, ofcourse my game experience changes.

 

Think I wanted to go through the OC with a friend using DM client... I can't!

 

Maybe the lure is so strong I play OC SP before the DL is available and then when I can play it with my friend all the exciting new things like exploring together are gone...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Volourn]

Bottom line is that the DM Client was part of the game being pimped.

 

What makes this worse was Obsidian stating (mor eor less) the following:

 

The DM Client is staying as it was in NWN1. It does what it needs to do. We feel other aspects of the game (graphics, a full controllable party, and toolset) need adjustments so we'll focus on those.

 

Now, 4 months away from release (from what we know now) they ar eplanning to work on the DM Client. That's poor management planning. Too bad too as lots of the stuff looks awesome.

 

For the record, I'm still planning to buy NWN2 'cause it offers other things I want - OC which will probably be gutted to meet release with 'quality'), the toolset, and MP. But, remember, none of us our buying the DM Client. That's now relegated to a 'bonus' material patch. Which means it means nothing. Too badd too because the DM Client is the ONLY thing that sets NWN2 from its competitors.

 

Good fun.

[Dhruin]

I don't want to get too carried away over what I think is probably a small issue, but for me personally, it's another sign they are struggling with the schedule. I might be wrong, but I'm going to be cautious come release.

[funcroc]

http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewp...m=95&highlight=

 

After reading (ok, glancing) over a lot of the stuff here, I'd like to point out a few things.

 

Firstly, no one needs a DM client to test things. We use the exact same tools that we are putting in the box. We do not use a DM client to test things.

 

Simply keeping the NWN1 DM client intact and "porting" it is just unreasonable and doesn't really make sense. NWN2 is not the same game as NWN1. Even if we change no functionality it's not like we can just merge the two code-bases, hit compile, and expect magic to happen.

 

None of us like that the DM client won't be available. I can't comment on time-frame because I don't know anything about it.

 

The good news is, since none of the developers here (or the testers or anyone else) have been using a DM client to test things, many of the same features of a DM client are available through script via the console.

 

For those who like to accuse Obsidian or Atari of lying. I've never seen anyone here lie to the community. Things get said that wind up not to be correct or that later change (who knows, maybe this post contains something that will one day be retracted?) Everyone here speaks to the best of their knowledge. At one time horses were a sure thing, we'd never cut those! But development is a rocky road and things change, and at some point someone has to look at what we have and say "No, we're not going to have horses, this just doesn't work."

 

So, when you hear devs speak, understand that they are talking about what they want, what they are planning on, how things stand at that moment when they say it.

Edited May 12, 2006 by funcroc

[Volourn]

For the record, I never accused them of lying about this. Just of poor management. They just realized NOW that the NWN1 DM Client might not be compatible with NWN2 in its exact form? Ok then.

[Cantousent]

You know, the most vocal voice concerns the DMC but more people will probably be affected and upset about a short campaign.

 

Personally, I never planned on using the DMC. Hell, I might not use multiplayer. ...But folks who basically gave us a cold shoulder in regards to getting an answer from Feargus concerning an alleged comment should be happy that at least the development team is shelling out the answers.

 

As far as this goes, I do think it's a bad sign. It's a bad sign because it demonstrates a major, and I do mean major, change in the project at the last minute.

 

Horses dropped? That's really actually very minor. Sure, it's a make or break issue for some folks, but nothing like the DMC. A short campaign and no DMC? That's a big issue.

 

However, before everyone goes hog wild, remember how well Civilization 3 did? They touted that game, almost to the bitter end, as a multiplayer game. When it finally shipped, it lacked multiplayer. Then, the publisher decided to put multiplayer in the expansion pack and sell rather than make it free.

 

This move on the part of Obsidian is not unprecedented. It need not be a sign that the game is bad. I see a lot of good qualities to the game. However, I have to agree with Volourn that it look like Obsidian didn't manage their project very well. Since they're in the business of developing computer games, I would have expected them to figure out something like this a bit farther out than four months.

 

NWN2 has the trappings of a great game. We have yet to see. ...But we lack clarity, and that's something as a consumer we should expect to receive for any game we buy. I'm not interested in the DMC, but I am interested in knowing exactly what will or will not be included in the finished product.

[Volourn]

Great post, Eldar. My only beef with it is you said it so much nicer and gentler than me!!! "

[funcroc]

http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewp...m=95&highlight=

 

On the subject of the DM client I did want to say a couple of things:

 

1) We at Obsidian know the importance of the DM client as it relates to the running of PWs. We want PWs to exist for NWN2, so we need to support the DM client.

 

2) We are going to be talking over the next couple of weeks to see what we will have at launch and when we will have a more final roadmap when it comes to the complete DM Client.

 

I do apologize for this being the way the information got to all of you about the DM Client, it's not what we intended. I was planning to have us make an announcement in the next few weeks about it, after we had gotten some more of our planning done.

_________________

Feargus Urquhart

CEO

Obsidian Entertainment, Inc.

Edited May 12, 2006 by funcroc

[Cantousent]

hahahaha It's always good to see exactly where we rate, doesn't it. The DMC might not ship? Feargus is quick to answer and apologizes for the way the information reached us. Folks say Feargus claimed the packaged campaign would only last 20 hours? Stony silence. No, no. I'm not really griping. I think it's kind of funny.

[StillLife]

For the record, I never accused them of lying about this. Just of poor management. They just realized NOW that the NWN1 DM Client might not be compatible with NWN2 in its exact form? Ok then.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I have to agree with Volourn.

 

As gamers, can we please stop lowering our expectation sometime in the near future? It's gotten so:

 

-Short games are just dandy! 5-20 hours for $50? Hey, no problem!

-Mediocre clone games are awesome!

-Crappy single-player is ok if the multiplayer is good or visa versa

-Unfinished games are fine if they come out faster, it's just plain mean to expect the developers to include promised features!

-Bugs are fine, they can just patch it later!

 

In no other business I can think of are consumers so willing to assume the position of door mat.

[Llyranor]

However, before everyone goes hog wild, remember how well Civilization 3 did?  They touted that game, almost to the bitter end, as a multiplayer game.  When it finally shipped, it lacked multiplayer.  Then, the publisher decided to put multiplayer in the expansion pack and sell rather than make it free.

Heh, pseudo-repeat after they mega-hyped the new Pitboss mp feature. It only got released last month.

[Llyranor]

hahahaha  It's always good to see exactly where we rate, doesn't it.  The DMC might not ship?  Feargus is quick to answer and apologizes for the way the information reached us.  Folks say Feargus claimed the packaged campaign would only last 20 hours?  Stony silence.  No, no.  I'm not really griping.  I think it's kind of funny.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did that crisis ever even make a splash over at the NWN2 forums?

[Volourn]

Couple of threads.. no dev replies. It goes to show they realize how important the DM Client is compared to rumours started at the Codex spamming about a German magazine sprouting off about the OC length. LOL

 

In fact, it's no contest.

[Cantousent]

Probably not. It's a funny thing. The multiplayer crowd has a huge impact on creating excitement for a game. ...But a short campaign, if anything less than stellar, will undoubtedly be a sore spot for more players. Feargus can afford to avoid the issue because the Bioware boards have been less than welcoming to non-multiplayer members. It's not going to cause as much of a stir. I think it'll cause one after the fact, however.

 

...And I'm not spoiling for a fight over the campaign length. However, I do think that the CEO of a company should be willing to confirm that he did or did not make a comment in regards to his only confirmed project.