Do you look down on people who...

[Cantousent]

I say you two fight over it. hehe

[alanschu]

I could see that Dominoing into WW3, especially if they are from different countries.

[Gorth]

Was it Clausewitz (Sp?) wrote something along the lines of war being too serious to be left to politicians, they give up peace way too easily (not a precise quote).

Is this what you were thinking of?

[quote name='Karl von Clausewitz (Prussian soldier and military theorist)' date=' 1780

[metadigital]

I'm sure Karl von Sherman would have endorsed it!

[Dark_Raven]

Too much testosterone, I guess.  I'm actually probably one of the biggest whimps on this board.  I destest and fear violence.

 

I guess we all have "war stories" of some sort or another.  My dad went to Germany at the end of 1945, fought in Korea, and did a tour in Viet Nam.  He hates and fears violence.  He doesn't put it in those terms of course.  He says things like "what a waste" or "all those dead kids" or... well, you get the picture.  He has never, once, expressed regret for serving his country.

 

My grand-dad was in the battle of Guadalcanal.  He was a marine.  He hated the Japanese, I believe, until the day he died.  He also hated his drill instructor.  What a terrible thing war is, to make us hate our fellows.

 

The question didn't regard war.  The question regarded volunteers.  Inasmuchas folks deride volunteers, even by implication, I'll continue to respond.  In regards to war, however, it sucks.  There are points where there is no choice, because it only takes one side to force a war between two parties.  Nevertheless, what sane person desires war?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I was raised in violence so it really has little effect on me.

 

It's in our nature to destroy and kill each other. We are a Yin Yang being, we are the greatest creators of beautiful works of art and music, we love our fellow kind. We are the greatest destroyers to each other and the world in general, we are the greatest haters of our own fellows.

 

War is evil. It destroys everything and everyone associated with it, even the "survivors". Some soldiers who return from war are never the same again, some can not deal with what happen and become insane from their experiances.

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

I believe in the military, it's honourable and I respect them as a result problem is the polictical states of countries nothing else hence no.

[Calax]

meh... I'd never EVER volunteer to be shot at thank yew veddy muchly... If I were to be drafted I'd probably find my way into some itty bitty niche that allowed me to stay a tad bit behind the lines (artillary or silent service)... but given as I'm going to be an electricion (if the berks ever call me) I'd might be tossed in with the army corps of engineers which I doubt would be fun... given those poor suckers have to go and build stuff while being bombed and shelled...

[Walsingham]

I like pigs too. Excellent creatures, with some exceptions. I'd keep one as a pet if I had the space.

 

I also knew that Brooke died in WW1.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Brooke? That's a famous Wilfred Owen poem. You're pretty ignorant for a war nut.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

*zing*

 

:"> Point scored, sir. But I CAN recite the poem off by heart, so there.

 

I notice that in your glee you ignore my second point about plenty of men who served in WW1 going on to serve in ww2 with enthusiasm.

[Judge Hades]

You all know what Navy stands for?

 

Never Again Volunteer Yourself.

[Lucius]

Britain declared war on Germany in 1914 after they invaded neutral Belgium, to protect their independence.

 

And it wasn't a pointless waste of life: it was the unavoidable result of the countries of Europe playing empire-building: greed kills.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Belgium was neutral, yes, but the UK wanted to get it on as much as the others, don't you think? The UK and Germany had been building up fleets to slug it out at some point or another, so really they were equals in terms of flexing military and colonial muscles.

 

Having millions upon millions die in the trenches for greed is a pointless waste, in my opinion. (which you can't change no matter how hard you try )

 

(@Wals I hardly think that many of the trench veterans, who had been knee deep in mud, gore and corpses, would go on to fight in WW2 with enthusiasm)

Edited May 11, 2006 by Lucius

[Gorth]

I notice that in your glee you ignore my second point about plenty of men who served in WW1 going on to serve in ww2 with enthusiasm.

They must be like Napoleons Old Guard... :D

 

With an average life expectancy of 3 weeks for front soldiers in WWI, lets just assume that only those who were drafted in 1918 had a real chance of surviving. Lets assume their average age was what, 18-19 ? They would be between 39-40 when WWII started, bringing them up in their mid forties during the war

[Judge Hades]

War is a form of population control.

[Walsingham]

War is not a form of population control. We breed MORE after a war and the overall population jumps.

 

As for the veterans, my point was more to observe that just because Wilfred Owen thought war was pointless doe snot mean every man there thought it was. I have a shiny collected biography of Field Marshal Montgomery, who was badly injured during ww1 as a subaltern, and he was an enthusiastic soldier. And thousands of veterans volunteered for the Home Guard.

[Lucius]

Took me a little while before I figured out what you meant by "doe snot".

 

As for populations, well the population of Germany hasn't grown that much this past century, has it?

Edited May 11, 2006 by Lucius

[Colrom]

And that led to the US being delayed entering WW1, while they trained up sufficient recruits for the battle. Hence policy was changed to facilitate a standing army ... then it was thought better to be able to conduct war in two different theatres, simultaneously.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Too bad we didn't stay out of WW I completely.

 

J. P. Morgan spent a bundle to get us into that war in support of his Banking business interests.

 

Even now the investment firm Morgan Stanley amusingly sends out info touting how the company patriotically supported US efforts for WWI even before we joined the war! (I wonder if they realize what they are saying!!!)

 

I think it was JP who hired the 50,000+ speakers who went around talking up the idea that the US should join that war.

 

Ah well - at least we stayed out for most of it.

 

And then after it was over we wouldn't pay our vets what we promised!

 

[Colrom]

On the topic.

 

Some of those who join the military are "defenders". They hope to defend others from violence. They are admirable - in a sad way.

 

Some of those who join the military are "vandals". They hope to perpetrate violence on others. They are despicable.

 

Those who avoid being in the military include anti-defenders, sometimes labeled "cowards".

 

There are also anti-vandals, sometimes labeled "pacifists".

 

There are others.

 

Of those who avoid being in the military the only ones I really disrespect are the "cowards".

 

There are, however, so many considerations it is nearly impossible to give a true answer without dealing with specific cases.

 

There are, for example, some who truely cannot function in the military for one reason or another and who, knowing this, avoid the military. It is pointless to revile them for this, although some never-the-less label them as "cowards".

 

Edited May 11, 2006 by Colrom

[metadigital]

And that led to the US being delayed entering WW1, while they trained up sufficient recruits for the battle. Hence policy was changed to facilitate a standing army ... then it was thought better to be able to conduct war in two different theatres, simultaneously.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Too bad we didn't stay out of WW I completely.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Too bad for whom?

J. P. Morgan spent a bundle to get us into that war in support of his Banking business interests.

 

Even now the investment firm Morgan Stanley amusingly sends out info touting how the company patriotically supported US efforts for WWI even before we joined the war! (I wonder if they realize what they are saying!!!)

 

I think it was JP who hired the 50,000+ speakers who went around talking up the idea that the US should join that war.

 

Ah well - at least we stayed out for most of it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

JP Morgan didn't have to try very hard: the Germans had already decided that the US was a threat (just by their manufacturing capacity, alone) and had already instigated war games against them: this was uncovered by the US when they discovered the German plot to support a Mexican insurgency across the boarder.

And then after it was over we wouldn't pay our vets what we promised!

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is shameful.

[alanschu]

Took me a little while before I figured out what you meant by "doe snot". 

 

As for populations, well the population of Germany hasn't grown that much this past century, has it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The Allies experienced the "baby boom" however.

[Dark_Raven]

I think rebuilding their cities was more of a priority to the German people than sex.

[Hassat Hunter]

And all the liberated woman wanted (to do) a nice little soldier...

 

That is what caused the babyboom with us atleast.

Edited May 11, 2006 by Hassat Hunter

[alanschu]

Lucky were the ones that didn't sleep with the Germans.

[metadigital]

You're forgetting about the large amount of rapes (both encouraged and overlooked) by both sides ...

[Colrom]

And that led to the US being delayed entering WW1, while they trained up sufficient recruits for the battle. Hence policy was changed to facilitate a standing army ... then it was thought better to be able to conduct war in two different theatres, simultaneously.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Too bad we didn't stay out of WW I completely.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Too bad for whom?

 

Those who were killed and their families.

 

 

For starters.

 

[astr0creep]

I didn't read all 17 pages so...

 

 

I thought of joining the military at one point(mid-teens) because I thought it would give me more self confidence, strength of body and character and some other good stuff.

I didn't out of lazyness for the most part but I also didn't like the idea of having to go through a fair bit of brainwashing(I guess one has to in order to pull the trigger when the time comes) and hurting people, conflict, competition, those are not my thing at all. In fact, I despise conflicts in most forms.

 

I don't look down on people who join the military. In fact I kind of admire and envy countries who have mandatory military service incorporated in their education system(like France I think).

Obviously I can't look down on those who don't join either since I have not.

 

What I look down on and this is because I can't understand it, is blindingly following orders no matter what. Doesn't good sense in the face of the obvious count for anything?

[alanschu]

 

Those who were killed and their families. 

 

 

For starters.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I am sure the families of those that didn't get killed from overseas are plenty grateful though.