Do you look down on people who...

[alanschu]

Technology has been more evolutionary since WW2 in my opinion.

[Walsingham]

The scale of the carnage was new-ish in WW1, but I think what horrified people was the linear brutality of a war based on attrition. Which we have Clauswitz (and all his little wizards to thank for).

 

Incidentally, since 11xhoah isn't here to post it:

 

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

--John Stewart Mill--"

[julianw]

Technology has been more evolutionary since WW2 in my opinion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yet it was the tensions from the Cold War that sped up research in aerospace and nuclear technology and many other fields of science. Through competition and conflicts, mankind grows stronger, but if we keep mercy and compassion in our hearts and learn to forgive, we could still strive for peace and harmony along with growth.

[Moose]

The scale of the carnage was new-ish in WW1, but I think what horrified people was the linear brutality of a war based on attrition. Which we have Clauswitz (and all his little wizards to thank for).

 

Incidentally, since 11xhoah isn't here to post it:

 

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

--John Stewart Mill--"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If in some smothering dreams you too could pace

Behind the wagon that we flung him in,

And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,

His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;

If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood

Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,

Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud

Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues, -

My friend, you would not tell with such high zest

To children ardent for some desperate glory,

The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est

Pro patria mori.

[Walsingham]

I've often thought that perhaps the reason all poetry is anti-war is because the buggers who thought it was worth fighting were out doing so, or looking after their men, not wasting time with pen and paper.

 

"Damn your writing. Mind your fighting."

 

I admire his skill as a poet, but beauty does not equal truth.

[Moose]

I've often thought that perhaps the reason all poetry is anti-war is because the buggers who thought it was worth fighting were out doing so, or looking after their men, not wasting time with pen and paper.

 

"Damn your writing. Mind your fighting."

 

I admire his skill as a poet, but beauty does not equal truth.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

FYI he died fighting in World War 1.

[julianw]

The scale of the carnage was new-ish in WW1, but I think what horrified people was the linear brutality of a war based on attrition. Which we have Clauswitz (and all his little wizards to thank for).

 

Incidentally, since 11xhoah isn't here to post it:

 

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

--John Stewart Mill--"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If in some smothering dreams you too could pace

Behind the wagon that we flung him in,

And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,

His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;

If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood

Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,

Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud

Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues, -

My friend, you would not tell with such high zest

To children ardent for some desperate glory,

The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est

Pro patria mori.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I guess sometimes you have to ask the question:"Is ____ worth one good man's life?" As Eldar pointed out before, many things are. I certainly refuse to believe that the soldiers who have given their lives so the people of Europe could live in freedom again were merely children ardent for desperate glory.

Edited May 10, 2006 by julianw

[Moose]

I regard the words of someone that actually fought in the trenches with higher preponderancy than your simple refusal to acknowledge the exactitude of the situation.

[Gorth]

I regard the words of someone that actually fought in the trenches with higher preponderancy than your simple refusal to acknowledge the exactitude of the situation.

In the end, one shot was all it took to set off the chain of events that lead to war on a massive scale (for glory of etc.), leading politicians, who had never been at the business end of a gun themselves, to send millions of young men to war.

I think we can agree on that one

[Lucius]

Ditto.

 

And again, it hardly had anything to do with freedom.

[julianw]

I regard the words of someone that actually fought in the trenches with higher preponderancy than your simple refusal to acknowledge the exactitude of the situation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Look, I too believe that the concept of a country is not worth dying for, but when the lives of my father, my mother or my sons and daughters are threatened and when people's basic rights as human beings are forcefully taken away, I would gladly give my life to defend them.

Now I don't know much about this poet, but if he believes that all wars are not worth fighting for, then it is the poet who could not see the truth. His long years spent in the trenches and my total inexperience with war have nothing to do with who's right here. No matter how close you bring a blind man to a candle, he still could not see the light. If this poet could stand and watch as innocent children were sent into gas chambers, then he is a simply a man indifferent to all life and no different from a dog who spends his time between sleep, meals and licking his own balls.

[Moose]

Yet if you thrust a blind man's hand into a candle he'll know more about its indubitable temperament than he who merely gives it glimpsing scrutiny.

[julianw]

Yet if you thrust a blind man's hand into a candle he'll know more about its indubitable temperament than he who merely gives it glimpsing scrutiny.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Next time he dips his hand in boiling water, he's going to shout 'light!' as well. Even a foolish man like me doesn't need to travel to the sun to know its existence.

 

Pigs used to be wild animals, running free in the mountains. Then it learned the comfort of the pigsty, so it forgets all about fighting and lives in a fence. Eventually the pigs will be killed and served on a plate.

[Moose]

Actually boars meant for the purpose of farming recently escaped into the UK countyside and have now for the first time in centuries reintroduced wild swine back into the British ecosystem.

 

As to why you know the sun exists; fool you may be but unless you've been eyeballing it, it's only because you've felt it that you know it truly exists. You could show a man that has lived underground his entire life pictures of the sun and yet he still would have no manner of idea what it was like to die of thirst in the desert, baking under its relentless heat.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Boars are nasty creatures. Thats why there is a crosspiece on a boarspear.

[Nartwak]

The pigs were sort of drafted to the sty; and having raised a pig, I wouldn't say they've forgotten about fighting.

[Moose]

Pigs are cool, and they like apples

[julianw]

There are things in life that are worth fighting and dying for. The truth can't get any simpler than that. It's as obvious as the sun. All you need to do is open your eyes and see. If a man decides that his comfort is more important than his freedom, than I say:"Congratulations, sir, you've chosen the life of a pig."

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

There are things in life that are worth fighting and dying for. The truth can't get any simpler than that. It's as obvious as the sun. All you need to do is open your eyes and see. If a man decides that his comfort is more important than his freedom, than I say:"Congratulations, sir, you've chosen the life of a pig."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Would you like to swing on a star

Carry moonbeams home in a jar

And be better off than you are

Or would you rather be a mule?

 

A mule is an animal with long funny ears

Kicks up at anything he hears

His back is brawny but his brain is weak

He's just plain stupid with a stubborn streak

And by the way, if you hate to go to school

You may grow up to be a mule

 

Or would you like to swing on a star

Carry moonbeams home in a jar

And be better off than you are

Or would you rather be a pig?

 

A pig is an animal with dirt on his face

His shoes are a terrible disgrace

He has no manners when he eats his food

He's fat and lazy and extremely rude

But if you don't care a feather or a fig

You may grow up to be a pig

 

Or would you like to swing on a star

Carry moonbeams home in a jar

And be better off than you are

Or would you rather be a fish?

 

A fish won't do anything, but swim in a brook

He can't write his name or read a book

To fool the people is his only thought

And though he's slippery, he still gets caught

But then if that sort of life is what you wish

You may grow up to be a fish

 

And all the monkeys aren't in the zoo

Every day you meet quite a few

So you see it's all up to you

You can be better than you are

You could be swingin' on a star

[SteveThaiBinh]

This reminds me of the opening chapters of Francis Fukuyama's The End of History and the Last Man. I know he was quoting an earlier philosopher, though I can't recall who offhand.

 

The point is that history, progress and all human achievement were made by the mules and pigs, not by the star-swingers (so to speak). Diplomacy and democracy were invented by people who didn't want to fight for their freedom. That's not to say there's nothing worth fighting for, or nothing I'd be prepared to fight for, but our reluctance to fight is one of our greatest strengths.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Just seemed appropriate :D

[SteveThaiBinh]

That song is always appropriate. I shall be humming it all day.

[Moose]

There are things in life that are worth fighting and dying for. The truth can't get any simpler than that. It's as obvious as the sun. All you need to do is open your eyes and see. If a man decides that his comfort is more important than his freedom, than I say:"Congratulations, sir, you've chosen the life of a pig."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ignoring the prodigious hypocrisy of that statement, I would have you know that those boar that escaped the butcher's knife (who also happens to be your master), did so without a moments conflict.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Ignoring the prodigious hypocrisy of that statement, I would have you know that those boar that escaped the butcher's knife (who also happens to be your master), did so without a moments conflict.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Only because no one got in their way. If you were between the boar and where it wanted to go you would be in trouble.

[Moose]

But you weren't... you were too busy pursuing pork recipes and sharpening your knives.