who is Nihilus

[Iseo Tiakan]

Nihilus is you. Or at least, the part of you that was lost at Malachor. He and the Exile are so perfectly two parts of the same being that I don't see how it can be any other way. You've got the Exile, a living man/woman who's completely cut off from the Force, and Nihilus, a being of the force but essentially dead. Neither ought to exist; they're both aberrations produced by the destruction at Malachor.

 

I'll admit there are inconsistencies between this view and some of the things that happen in the game, but as fragmented as the KotOR2 story is, there are inconsistencies in just about any view of anything. I think this is just another of those things that the writers intended to have in the game, but left unfinished due to time constraints.

[Ahkan Stormforge]

Nihilus is you. Or at least, the part of you that was lost at Malachor. He and the Exile are so perfectly two parts of the same being that I don't see how it can be any other way. You've got the Exile, a living man/woman who's completely cut off from the Force, and Nihilus, a being of the force but essentially dead. Neither ought to exist; they're both aberrations produced by the destruction at Malachor.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I sort of like this interpretation. It reminds me of Planescape: Torment where The Nameless One and The Transcendent One were two halves of a whole - TNO is the humanity minus the immortality and TTO is the immortality minus the humanity. But here, Exile is the life minus the Force and Darth Nihilus is the Force minus the life. Exile fills his void by retouching with the Force through Kreia and the Force Bond, Nihilus fills his void by sucking the life from everything.

 

Does Visas even have to see anything when she removes the mask though? Perhaps there's just darkness there and Nihilus was just holding a form through strength of will (would sort of explain why he dissipated away there at the end - there wasn't even a body beneath the robes).

[Iseo Tiakan]

Does Visas even have to see anything when she removes the mask though? Perhaps there's just darkness there and Nihilus was just holding a form through strength of will (would sort of explain why he dissipated away there at the end - there wasn't even a body beneath the robes).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't believe that Nihilus ever had a physical body in the usual sense, but that doesn't mean that Visas didn't see anything. After all, she doesn't see physical people, she sees them through the Force. For similar reasons, I have to think that Visas knew from the beginning about the connection between her master and the Exile. She'd have recognized him the moment she first saw him.

 

Visas did see something; she implies as much when the Exile asks her what she saw and she replies that Nihilus was "just a man," which would seem to indicate that Nihilus did have a normal physical form.

 

Part of me sees that line as a cop-out on the part of the writers after they realized they wouldn't have time to reallly incorporate Nihilus into the story. Another part thinks that Visas telling the Exile something about himself. I see that fight as ending in the reunion of the two parts of the Exile, so perhaps Visas is trying to tell him, subtly, that he's no longer a wound in the Force, and he can finally be just a man again.

[Sturm]

Palpatine comes back?

 

well there goes all chances of me getting into the EU comics and stuff

[jedidotflow]

I would like to know how the two-hlaves theory fits into Star Wars. This isn't some DnD fantasy story, where the rules are really wacky (in a good way).

You guys are forgetting this is the Star Wars Universe. A person spliting in two is impossible (so far) in Star Wars. Why? It's based on our real universe with the major difference of the Force. Nihilus was just another Jedi in Malachor V that got all screwed up by the attack (whether he originally was light or dark is not answered). Same goes for Sion. Maybe Nihil was close to the Exile (physically) ehn he cut himself from the force and that affected the former to sucha degree that it turned him into the Galactus of force users.

[Sikon]

Visas did see something; she implies as much when the Exile asks her what she saw and she replies that Nihilus was "just a man," which would seem to indicate that Nihilus did have a normal physical form.

Actually, the conversation goes as follows:

 

Exile: What did you see under the mask?

Visas: A man, nothing more.

 

Although, if you pick another variant ("Tell me what you saw"), Visas will be slightly more talkative ("answers cryptically", as it's said in in-game notes):

 

Visas: Malachor V. I saw a graveyard world, surrounded by a fleet of dead ships. I felt it through him... as I feel it through you. You are my master now. And I will follow wherever your path takes you. My path is at an end.

 

However, I like the first quote more. It's more precise and gets to the point. One of the greatest Sith Lords ever, death itself, a destroyer of worlds, was, in the end, just a man. This was also the feeling I had when seeing the mummified body of Ludo Kressh... I was like, "So... this is the legend?"

[Darth_Lord_Ibbe]

all the Darth (whatevers) have an actual meaning i.e. Sidious meaning (not exactly) devious, manipulative which is what he is!

they are named after what they are sort of thing

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes! Speaking of this, didn't it bother anybody that Malak and Revan simply became... Darth Malak and Darth Revan? Lack of inspiration? I mean, sure, they had a galaxy to conquer. But still. Why not come up with a nickname?

 

Malak = Darth... Brutus.

Revan = Darth Amnesia

 

See? Off the top of my head. Not hard.

[Iseo Tiakan]

Sikon, thanks for clarifying the first quote, and for bringing up the second, which I had never even seen. It's been awhile since I've actually played through the game.

 

While I agree that your interpretation of the first line is satisfying on its own, in the context of the game I see it as a letdown. Okay, so he's just a man... that's it? No explanation of how the same crucible that left the Exile unable to feel the Force except through others also created Nihilus? If this is the case, he just comes out of nowhere, destroys worlds, gets killed by the Exile, and there's never any reason for it except to give the story another villain.

 

Jedidotflow, I see where you're coming from regarding whether a split like this can happen in the Star Wars universe, but I think it fits well enough with what we know about the Force. We're not talking about someone splitting into two corporeal beings, after all; this is more like splitting body and spirit. Since there's plenty of precedent for a distinction between the two in other Star Wars stories, I don't really think this is any more out of the question than a guy like Sion who holds himself together by sheer force of will.

[jedidotflow]

But Iseo, the problem is that Nihilus IS a corporeal form. He has a body, hence you can kill him with your lightsaber and take his mask afterwards. I don't think there is any evidence in game to suggest that he/she is some sort of "Force parapersona" of the Exile. Also, can you give examples of this, or something similar in other Star Wars stories? After all, if the spirit and the body are separated, the body would die.

[Iseo Tiakan]

But Iseo, the problem is that Nihilus IS a corporeal form. He has a body, hence you can kill him with your lightsaber and take his mask afterwards. I don't think there is any evidence in game to suggest that he/she is some sort of "Force parapersona" of the Exile. Also, can you give examples of this, or something similar in other Star Wars stories? After all, if the spirit and the body are separated, the body would die.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

1) I don't think it's clearly in evidence that Nihilus has a body. Recall in KotOR1, where you could fight and do damage to Ajunta Pall despite his lack of a body. Alternately, it may well be that he has a body that's not his own, as others have suggested, taken from a Jedi who died at Malachor.

2) Unfortunately for me, there won't be any other examples. No Jedi ever made the decision that the Exile made, and it's likely that no Jedi ever will. Events that would force such a decision are already rare (the only one I can think of is Alderaan), and considering the number of Jedi who died or fell to the Dark Side at Malachor, the kind of person with the strength to turn away from the Force is probably even rarer.

3) I don't mean to suggest that the Exile's entire spirit was split from his body at Malachor, just the part of him capable of feeling the Force. And while that alone might have been enough to kill most people, we're told throughout the game that the Exile is different.

 

I'm sorry I can't come up with more concrete evidence that what I'm suggesting is possible in the Star Wars universe. This is just the explanation I feel best fits the story, and I'm a lot more comfortable with it than I am with thinking of Nihilus as a character with no greater meaning.

[Judge Hades]

Who is Nihilus?

 

Someone you kill.

[Sikon]

but I think it fits well enough with what we know about the Force.

If we see the Force as a universal, omnipotent plothole-patching and story-propelling device that nobody quite gets, then yes, it does fit well. Only that it's sort of... non-Star-Warsy.

[Iseo Tiakan]

If we see the Force as a universal, omnipotent plothole-patching and story-propelling device that nobody quite gets, then yes, it does fit well. Only that it's sort of... non-Star-Warsy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, you could argue that in many Star Wars stories that's exactly what the Force is, but that's a discussion for another time.

 

Anyway, I'm more than prepared to admit that I don't "get" the Force in an absolute sense, or that my interpretation might just not fit into the Star Wars universe the way I think it does. I just don't see the problem myself, and will prefer my interpretation until I see a compelling reason it can't work, or until I come across a better version. Again, the last thing I want is for Nihilus to be, as Judge Hades puts it, just "someone you kill."

 

As always, I remain open to the possibility that I'm wrong.

[Jediphile]

I would like to know how the two-hlaves theory fits into Star Wars. This isn't some DnD fantasy story, where the rules are really wacky (in a good way).

You guys are forgetting this is the Star Wars Universe. A person spliting in two is impossible (so far) in Star Wars. Why? It's based on our real universe with the major difference of the Force. Nihilus was just another Jedi in Malachor V that got all screwed up by the attack (whether he originally was light or dark is not answered). Same goes for Sion. Maybe Nihil was close to the Exile (physically) ehn he cut himself from the force and that affected the former to sucha  degree that it turned him into the Galactus of force users.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'd be curious to see how you respond to my own theory of Nihilus' origin...

 

EDIT: Oh, and do read the topic on from that point on - my discussion with Metadigital filled in a lot of the blanks.

Edited May 24, 2006 by Jediphile

[Sturm]

who is Nihilus

 

who cares, hes dead

 

like this thread

[Sikon]

Jediphile: I don't accept it because I have different views on why Exile's Force connection was damaged to begin with.

[Ulicus]

Who is Nihilus?

 

Hmmmmmmmm.......... *ponder, ponder, ponder*

 

Ok, pondered.

 

I support the "Zayne is Nihilus" theory.

 

- He is similar to the Exile, so the Exile/Nihilius parallels remain

- There's a "Destroyer of Worlds" prophesy floating around in his series.

 

That is all.

[vaxen83]

Somehow Jediphile's explanation makes sense, especially since it is hard to look at Nihilus as a physical being.

Edited May 26, 2006 by vaxen83

[Lilandra]

He's a guy? who hides behind a mask and speaks funny.

[Calax]

I would like to know how the two-hlaves theory fits into Star Wars. This isn't some DnD fantasy story, where the rules are really wacky (in a good way).

You guys are forgetting this is the Star Wars Universe. A person spliting in two is impossible (so far) in Star Wars. Why? It's based on our real universe with the major difference of the Force. Nihilus was just another Jedi in Malachor V that got all screwed up by the attack (whether he originally was light or dark is not answered). Same goes for Sion. Maybe Nihil was close to the Exile (physically) ehn he cut himself from the force and that affected the former to sucha  degree that it turned him into the Galactus of force users.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'd be curious to see how you respond to my own theory of Nihilus' origin...

 

EDIT: Oh, and do read the topic on from that point on - my discussion with Metadigital filled in a lot of the blanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

YOUR THEORY? YOUR THEORY!? I had that idea... 2 posts before yours!

[Dark_Raven]

Is it time for this thread to be retired?

[Jediphile]

I would like to know how the two-hlaves theory fits into Star Wars. This isn't some DnD fantasy story, where the rules are really wacky (in a good way).

You guys are forgetting this is the Star Wars Universe. A person spliting in two is impossible (so far) in Star Wars. Why? It's based on our real universe with the major difference of the Force. Nihilus was just another Jedi in Malachor V that got all screwed up by the attack (whether he originally was light or dark is not answered). Same goes for Sion. Maybe Nihil was close to the Exile (physically) ehn he cut himself from the force and that affected the former to sucha  degree that it turned him into the Galactus of force users.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'd be curious to see how you respond to my own theory of Nihilus' origin...

 

EDIT: Oh, and do read the topic on from that point on - my discussion with Metadigital filled in a lot of the blanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

YOUR THEORY? YOUR THEORY!? I had that idea... 2 posts before yours!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You posted something before I explained my theory, yes, but if you go back to post 6 of that topic, you'll note that I strongly hint at my speculations and is then promptly asked about it by Sinbreaker in the very next post.

 

So while you may have said it first, I did have my idea before you said it. Then again, you would have to take my word that I did not change my theory in the meantime, which I do realise is asking a lot...

[Darth Blivion]

I assume he is just a Jedi from Malchor (part of the Exie's fleet) who instead of dying ended up as a "wound in the force". His hunger developed as a result of his delving into the dark side and because his process of becoming a wound (unlike the Exile) was out of his control - hence the reason why he can't control his "hunger".

[Alec]

There is a theory: on Wookieepedia it says that Darth Nihilus could be Zayne Carrick or Squint (they are characters from KOTOR Comic Book Series) during 3964 BBY.

But they have little in common. Zayne was a fuggitive from the Jedi Council and Squint was a Jedi Hunter.

Some even say Squint might be Revan... but Revan is actually his real name.

[vaxen83]

Concept art for Nihilus came from art for SW: ANH. Think it was original appearance for Vader. One of early ideas for SW.

Edited July 13, 2006 by vaxen83