KOTOR 2 purposely making fun of Lucas's ideas?

[Hekate]

Guess i'm just tryin'a understand how Exlie can hear the Force in others by listening to the midi-chlorians in others.

Perhaps the midi chlorians have always been trying to speak to the Exile and Kreia just taught the Exile how to listen for it again.

Fair enough.

 

It is also possible that what Vrook said was true, that the Exile was just deafened to the Force, but not completely severed from it. If the "noise" of Malachor was causing her to not be able to hear the Force in herself (and for others to not hear the Force in her) then Kreia could teach her to hear the Force past the "noise" or hear the Force in others. Hence the constant dialog options I mentioned before. And anything is possible with the Force. **shrug**

 

If Exile was just deafened to it and not completely severed from it, than what was all that talk by Kreia and the Jedi Council about? This is where the inconsistencies in the narrative really make themselves seen, and drive me nuts . If the only deafened part is true; however; than the gradual reconnection through use and getting accustomed to it makes complete sense.

 

 

IMO Vrook was implying not that they follow Exile against their will, as in accompanying her/him when they don't want to (Kreia took care of that  ), rather their behaviour and choices began to alter (hence such easy alignment shifts even against their true personalities and ethics) because of Exile Force-bonding with them. Exile, unaware of it, overpowers them, overwhelms them, and they do things, think and feel things, they normally wouldn't. Mira says she doesn't like how killing has become so instinctive and easy when she is with Exile. Atton doesn't understand why he wants to protect her/him.

Ah, but even if you get them lightside or darkside (with the exception of Atton) you still lose influence with them if you do something they don't agree with. Example: I turn Visas LS. I take her to Onderon. We're in the cantina and Colonel Tobin and Vaklu's troops attack. Visas says it would be a good chance to "cleanse" the place of life. I tell her to rein it in and keep her lightsaber to Vaklu's troops only. She does what I tell her, yes, but I lose influence.

I think we're agreeing on the outcome on this one, even if not on the method. The party members do/say/etc things they normally wouldn't, but the fact they don't entirely let go of their core beliefs (ie: the Visas example you gave) proves even if the Exile has an effect, even an overwhelming one, they still have a measure of control and maintain a sense of self.

 

Oh, and it's easy to see why Atton wants to protect F!Exile. Because, whether he admits it or not, he loves her.

True. But what are your thoughts about Atton's devotion to male Exile? Why does Atton want to protect the male Exile to the extent he does? Even considering Atton wanting to make up for his past, i wonder if his determination maybe goes a bit beyond that...

 

I think, perhaps, the Jedi (especially Vrook) were always a little too quick to blame the loyalty of the Exile's friends on her Force bonds (even before the wars) rather than a friendly personality. In the holo on Dantooine Vrooks says: "whatever the other Padawans see her do, they are quick to do the same... other students dislike her intensely!" That sounds like what happens with any popular student. I'm sure they thought the same thing about Revan. Surely s/he was popular and the other students wanted to be like him/her and I'm sure there were others that didn't like him/her at all, too. But no it's the Force bonds. 

I concur the Jedi Masters and the Sith Lords look to the Force as an explanation for everything a bit too readily. And you make and exellent point about Exile and why the other padawans reacted to her/him that way. But i do believe the Exile's Force bonds play a significant role in the party members staying with her/him. But that's just me.

 

First of all, ditch the midichlorian theory. It is unclear how true to the nature of the Force it is. At least I don't think Obsidian seriously considered it.

And that is one reason why things are so confusing. Not just with regards to the midichlorians, but as far as the whole plot about the wound in the Force and echoes go. The midi-chlorian discussions are an attempt to figure out the means to the ends.

 

What I don't understand is why people can't accept that Exile's connection to the Force just healed itself?

Let me use a real-life analogy. You can see, like all normal people do. One day, you are exposed to a blinding flash - so bright that you lose sight for a long time. However, over time your eyes get healed, and your sight returns - gradually.

Is it somehow a "cheat"? Do you sense photons in a way different from others? No. Do you see through others' eyes? Perhaps your brain learned to communicate with others' optical nerves? Nonsense.

However, you have learned to exist without sight, which you previously considered vital to your life. If such an accident happens once again, you will be less hesitant to accept it.

That makes complete sense. I think the biggest difficulty with accepting that as being all there is to it is the references made by both Kreia and the Jedi Masters about Exile having severed her/himself so completely from the Force it left a wound in the Force and that s/he is a wound in the Force that must be healed, and the stating that s/he is a leech/siphon and her/his mere existence causes echoes/resonnace bringing destruction in its wake.

 

This is what happened to Exile. The idea of KOTOR II is that not the Force makes one strong, but the readiness to separate oneself from it. Exile, once a Force-sensitive, gave it away when others couldn't - and died. They learned to exist without a connection to the Force. This, not any strangeness in his newfound connection to the Force, is what the galaxy was not prepared to accept.

If that is the case, and if that is what this "truth" Kreia was speaking of when the Jedi Council cut Exile off from the Force is, than it is absolutely true the Council is acting out of fear and being shortsighted and petty. But what i don't get is if a Jedi being cut off from the Force and being fine is what frightens them, why would they then cut the Exile off from the Force again? I don't see the purpose of that.

[Sikon]

hink the biggest difficulty with accepting that as being all there is to it is the references made by both Kreia and the Jedi Masters about Exile having severed her/himself so completely from the Force it left a wound in the Force

One wound in the Force was Malachor. By activating the Mass Shadow Generator, Exile caused such a disturbance in the Force (which backfired on himself) that he was forced to cut himself off from it in order to survive. (Continuing the flash analogy: if you don't close your eyes, it is possible that the flash burns down your eyes completely.) Perhaps in the eyes of the Council, this transformed Exile into some sort of a wound in the Force as well - one capable of destroying the Force itself.

Why the Council attempted to cut him off? As mentioned, Exile's connection to the Force was not completely severed, and the Council was afraid of the resurgent connection - not only could the Force affect Exile through it, but Exile was also able to affect the Force. Since they were afraid of the death of the Force (and the Jedi), they attempted to permanently seal the "rift" by closing the connection between Exile and the Force, depriving him of any way to further disrupt the Force. Whether they would succeed if Kreia didn't intervene is a matter of debate, but I think they would.

[Mellypie]

True. But what are your thoughts about Atton's devotion to male Exile? Why does Atton want to protect the male Exile to the extent he does? Even considering Atton wanting to make up for his past, i wonder if his determination maybe goes a bit beyond that...

 

This is one of those things that I'm not entirely sure about. I think with M!Exile Atton sees a way to move beyond his past (if the Exile is LS that is) and perhaps recitfy some of the things he did. Perhaps he feels that keeping this one Jedi alive will atone for all those that he killed.

 

A couple of things said in the game make me believe that the Exile really did completely severe her/himself from the Force (the deafening thing above was just a theory but not one I would hold to much):

 

Visas says: My Master was aware of a disturbance in the Force, but was unaware of its nature, of you. The disturbance is not something one feels from a living thing. Meaning to another Force sensitive the Exile feels dead. Has no exsistance in the Force.

 

Vrook says: Yes... you can feel the Force, but you cannot feel yourself. Which again shows that the Exile has no presence in the Force.

Edited April 24, 2006 by Mellypie

[Hekate]

One wound in the Force was Malachor. By activating the Mass Shadow Generator, Exile caused such a disturbance in the Force (which backfired on himself) that he was forced to cut himself off from it in order to survive. (Continuing the flash analogy: if you don't close your eyes, it is possible that the flash burns down your eyes completely.) Perhaps in the eyes of the Council, this transformed Exile into some sort of a wound in the Force as well - one capable of destroying the Force itself.

Why the Council attempted to cut him off? As mentioned, Exile's connection to the Force was not completely severed, and the Council was afraid of the resurgent connection - not only could the Force affect Exile through it, but Exile was also able to affect the Force. Since they were afraid of the death of the Force (and the Jedi), they attempted to permanently seal the "rift" by closing the connection between Exile and the Force, depriving him of any way to further disrupt the Force. Whether they would succeed if Kreia didn't intervene is a matter of debate, but I think they would.

 

So, just so i know we're on the same page here, your belief is the wound of Malachor V is linked to Exile directly, and the Jedi Masters saw that Exile could affect the Force through that link and that is why they wanted to cut Exile off. Is that right?

[Sikon]

So, just so i know we're on the same page here, your belief is the wound of Malachor V is linked to Exile directly, and the Jedi Masters saw that Exile could affect the Force through that link and that is why they wanted to cut Exile off. Is that right?

Yes, quite so.

Just to clarify: Exile has a presence in the Force, even if this presence is like an absence, it's still not nothing; it is consistently acknowledged that Exile can be felt through the Force. ("Malachor V should have been his grave. You saw it in his walk, and in the Force. It was as if he was already dead." - Atris to the rest of the Council)

Yes... you can feel the Force, but you cannot feel yourself.

This can be interpreted as an identity crisis, but to quote Chris Avellone:

The player does not have amnesia, does not start the game with amnesia, does not get amnesia over the course of the game, and he/she is quite clear who, what, and where he is at all times. Nor does he/she have any problems with memory, lurking pseudo-personalities, multiple personality disorders, submerged personalities, or any personality problems except what you induce through gameplay by being a nice guy, a jerk, or both.

I'm quite curious about what Vrook wanted to say. However, Avellone's POV is mostly expressed through Kreia, not the Jedi Masters.

[Jediphile]

What I don't understand is why people can't accept that Exile's connection to the Force just healed itself?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Because neither Kreia nor the jedi masters thought so, and if anyone should know, it should be they.

 

Let me use a real-life analogy. You can see, like all normal people do. One day, you are exposed to a blinding flash - so bright that you lose sight for a long time. However, over time your eyes get healed, and your sight returns - gradually.

Is it somehow a "cheat"? Do you sense photons in a way different from others? No. Do you see through others' eyes? Perhaps your brain learned to communicate with others' optical nerves? Nonsense.

However, you have learned to exist without sight, which you previously considered vital to your life. If such an accident happens once again, you will be less hesitant to accept it.

This is what happened to Exile.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, I don't agree with that, because that sounds like what happened to the Exile was an instinctual reaction that anyone else would have made under the same circumstances, and we know that is not the case, since the Exile alone among all the jedi at Malachor V did not either die or fall to the dark side.

 

I'm not saying the Exile made a conscious decision, but I don't think it was an entirely instinctual reaction either. The way I see it, the jedi (and sith) are used to "give their will over to the force", since that is how they can react so quickly - it is not conscious when they deflect lightsaber or blaster shots. As Obi-Wan explains to Luke:

 

Obi-Wan: "A Jedi can feel the Force flowing through him."

 

Luke: "You mean it controls your actions?"

 

Obi-Wan: "Partially. But it also obeys your commands."

 

They way I see it, the jedi (or sith) sort of decides beforehand what he will do, or rather have the force do, when certain conditions arise. In a way, it's sort of like he makes a simple computer-program, which the force then follows, when the preset conditions for its activation are met.

 

In that sense, the jedi do make a choice, it is just not one that is consciously made during the actual situation. In this context Kreia's comments become interesting.

 

Kreia: "But no Jedi ever made the choice you did. To sever ties so completely, so utterly, that it leaves a wound in the Force."

 

Now, from that it seems clear to me that the Exile did not merely have an instinctual reaction. His choice was unique, but the big question is whether that choice is open to all jedi, or whether he was also unique in his ability to actually cut himself off from the force. That is unanswered, and that may be a contributing factor to what the masters fear.

 

The idea of KOTOR II is that not the Force makes one strong, but the readiness to separate oneself from it. Exile, once a Force-sensitive, gave it away when others couldn't - and died. They learned to exist without a connection to the Force. This, not any strangeness in his newfound connection to the Force, is what the galaxy was not prepared to accept.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't think so. If that were the case, then the masters really didn't have to care about it. Besides, the Exile does use force powers. And we should also remember that other jedi have been cut off from the force without the ability to just sort of "turn it on" again as the Exile did. Ulic Qel-Droma spent a decade trying to rediscover his lost connection to the force and never succeeded.

 

Considering the nature of their Force bonds, I have said it before, and I will say it again: the Council was mistaken in their assumption that Exile's Force bonds held any danger. In other words, I stand by Mical and Visas' position. And given that even non-Force-sensitives, like Canderous and the droids, readily followed Exile, it seems to me that being a leader the way Exile was is something more complicated than just being fluent in the Force.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't agree entirely with the masters' decision either, but I think you're wrong about their motives. You seem to be overlooking the connection between the Exile and the "new Sith" (=Nihilus), which is the major concern of the masters.

 

"There was a gathering of Jedi on the planet - when we realized that something was attacking us, we resolved to meet secretly to attempt to find this threat.Then... Katarr was no more.When we felt Katarr die, there is something we felt, something we'd felt once before. An echo in the Force.We'd felt it before when you stood before us. Whatever this threat, whatever this hunger is, it is something tied to you, something you have experienced directly. This echo travels in the places where death has walked, where planets have died. Massacres fuel its power, the death of life fuels it."

 

"The Sith are a threat, it is true. But the threat they present... it is tied to you in some way. The echo we have felt on the worlds we have walked - we have encountered it only once before, when you stood before us at your trial.We believe that somehow, you are creating this - or that the Sith have learned this technique from you."

 

This last bit is fairly important, because it points very directly to a connection between the Exile and the threat of the Sith that the masters fear so much. That threat is Nihilus, but then the masters don't know that.

 

What I find interesting is that they say quite bluntly that somehow the Exile is responsible for creating this danger, meaning Nihilus. Kreia never disputes that, and naturally no one else mentions it, since they have no knowledge of it.

 

But note what Kreia said earlier about Nihilus and his power.

 

Kreia: "It is a technique that is almost as old as the Sith themselves... it is a means of severing connections between life, the Force, and feeding upon the death it causes.It cannot be taught... it can only be gained through instinct, through experiencing its effects, first-hand."

 

Now, is it just me or this *EXACTLY* what the Exile himself experienced at Malachor V? We know that Nihilus was born from the events of Malachor V from the description of his mask...

 

"You have taken this trophy from the remains of Darth Nihilus - it is the last surviving piece of the beast who died and was reborn in the shattered world of Malachor V. By taking it from him, you have gained a stronger tie to the Force."

 

That is a lot of conveniently coinciding factors to me, and suggests that the masters were absolutely right to suspect a connection between the Exile and "this new Sith threat" (which was Nihilus).

[DeathScepter]

and that is why I do consider Nihilus similar to the Exile.

[Darth Blivion]

Jediphile wrote:

 

Well, let's listen to the wisdom of HK-47 of all people...

 

HK-47: "That is why Revan felt that Malachor V was so important. It was intended to be a conversion tool. Assessment: When faced with a continuous series of hard-fought battles, I detected a significant statistical increase in Jedi following Revan over the Jedi Code - a compromise in principles brought about by battlefield conditions.The emotional weight of war changed Jedi morale, power, and eventually, their allegiance. Conclusion: I believe the Mandalorian Wars were to beat the Mandalorians and also to allow Revan to build the foundation of his army. But I am surprised you have not already arrived at this conclusion. Surely the loss of your troops and the Jedi who served under you at Malachor V, had a detrimental effect upon you and your ties to the Force - and I suspect, your desire to be around others ever again."

 

HK-47: "Observation: Master, that was the lesson of Malachor. Any Jedi involved in the systematic slaughter on such a scale cannot help but doubt and question themselves.Observation: Master, I do not believe that the Mandalorians were the true target at Malachor - I believe that the intention was to destroy the Jedi, break their will, and make them loyal to Revan.I do not know if you examined the records of the deaths on Malachor, but you cannot escape that many of the Jedi and Republic soldiers who died were not Revan's strongest supporters. Observation: I believe that Revan was "cleaning house" at Malachor V. What ones did not die became Revan's allies against the Republic."

 

From these comments it seems clear that Revan purposefully manipulated events to suit his/her plans and knew exactly what the consequences would be for the jedi - s/he knew what the will of the force would be.

 

Still, that doesn't rule out your own explanation, but bear in mind what Kreia tells the LS Exile after the meeting with the masters.

 

------

 

I disagree with the last assesment. Though I believe Revan manipulated events to turn Jedi during the tail end of the Mando wars I do not beleive he did because he knew the will of the force. Everything he did and the way he did it seemed to be according to his will not because he had knowledge of the will of the force. You have to remember he was steeped in the dark side at the time, and such an idea runs contrary to dark side beliefs, which are that the dark side offers an avenue to follow your own will and cease to become a servant of the force.

 

At this point Revan was oblivious to the unknown threat as well so the idea that he knew the will of the force doesn't hold. I believe like the Jedi who followed him Revan only did what he felt he needed to do to win the war, but like all fallen Jedi he didn't believe there existed methodologies different from his own.

[Sikon]

Of course Revan predicted everything. ABSOLUTELY everything. Revan is such a super-duper-mega-cool fanboy favorite that he MUST predict and foresee every single event in the galaxy that somehow concerns the Jedi, the Sith, the Republic or the Mandalorians to support this super-duper-mega-coolness. All the other characters are infinitely insignificant compared to Revan's blaze of glory. In addition, he orchestrated the Mandalorian Wars, not to mention orchestrating the Great Sith War before even being born in order to set up the stage for the Mandalorian Wars. And of course, Revan is the central point of the entire KOTOR era, possibly even all of Star Wars.

[Darth Blivion]

The Exile being a "wound" as he is and using the force at the same time is confusing, but this is the force remember?! . I think of the Exile and his wound as a magnet or more precisely a vacuum. In severing his connetion to the force he only increased his affinity to the force. Look at his force bonding, I think it operates the same way a vacuum (for instance) would draw matter into it, if exposed to any particles.

 

The nature of his natural force bonding ability is the same as his "wound" I believe, and as a result is able to function even while the Exile's connection to the force has been severed. There is a suggestion from speaking with Chodo Habat that this "wound" can be healed though, so it might not be permanent.

 

(Might have used atoms to draw the analogy but didn't feel like revisiting basic chemistry.)

[Darth Blivion]

Of course Revan predicted everything. ABSOLUTELY everything. Revan is such a super-duper-mega-cool fanboy favorite that he MUST predict and foresee every single event in the galaxy that somehow concerns the Jedi, the Sith, the Republic or the Mandalorians to support this super-duper-mega-coolness. All the other characters are infinitely insignificant compared to Revan's blaze of glory. In addition, he orchestrated the Mandalorian Wars, not to mention orchestrating the Great Sith War before even being born in order to set up the stage for the Mandalorian Wars. And of course, Revan is the central point of the entire KOTOR era, possibly even all of Star Wars.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

That's the problem with some of this fanboy's on top the fact that he's a fictional character, they don't get the idea that Revan fell to the dark side precisely because he wasn't anywhere near perfect. Everything from the way his war ruined the Republic, to how he needed the help of a Jedi (Bastila) to save his life after Malak's betrayal, suggest to me that he was a flawed character. Just like every other Sith Lord.

Edited April 25, 2006 by Darth Blivion

[DeathScepter]

maybe he planned the betrayel along.........Critial moments where Kreia taught the Exile........and she did teach Revan.

 

 

 

Then again it is wishful thinking

[Darth Blivion]

You're not serious are you?! :ph34r:

[DeathScepter]

No

 

 

But there is oddity within the both Kotors that does suggest that.

 

 

 

right now I am standing back seeing what happens in Kotor 3.

 

 

I do have evidences that he manipulated the betrayel by Malak and being saved By Bastila.

 

 

Just say, it is just a theory...........and I do wonder if it holds any weight in Kotor 3.

 

It would be in character for Revan but Right now I am sitting back and see what happens.

[Sikon]

No, I don't agree with that, because that sounds like what happened to the Exile was an instinctual reaction that anyone else would have made under the same circumstances, and we know that is not the case, since the Exile alone among all the jedi at Malachor V did not either die or fall to the dark side.

Unless you take into account that others subjected to this instinctual reaction expecienced another instinctual reaction, you know the pattern, "Nnnnoooooooo!!! I won't give away the Force! I'm powerless without it! It's better to die!" The Force is like a drug: it makes you feel something normal people don't, once you start using it, it is increasingly difficult to cope with being cut off from it.

Don't forget the circumstances at Malachor V were, to an extent, unique. Not many Force-sensitives ever experienced what he did. When they were exposed to such an echo in the Force as Malachor, did they suffer the same instinctual reaction? Quite possibly. But they died where Exile survived, as they considered giving away both their life and the Force less painful than just the Force.

You mention other Jedi at Malachor who either died or went to the dark side. Exile was different from them in exactly one thing: he was the one to activate the MSG. Therefore, the Force retaliated on him alone, not on the others.

As for the Jedi Masters: are we speaking about the same paranoid Jedi Masters who murdered their own Padawans due to the fear that one of them would succumb to the dark side, the same Masters who allowed the Mandalorians to accumulate the strength for the Mandalorian Wars, who watched silently as the Mandalorians crushed the Republic, who were too afraid to investigate what really happened on Malachor, who sentenced Exile for crimes he didn't commit - only, in their opinion, could commit, and never did, who could not foresee and prevent the disaster on Katarr, and who, finally, all of a sudden changed their position on Exile from benevolent (after he spent so much effort on stabilizing the Republic) to hostile? And now these Masters, who never knew anything about what happened to Exile, what caused him to do what he did, and what life he lived in the Outer Rim after they sentenced him for the first time, dare to judge him. I don't dare to judge them, but I think it's rather hard to come up with rational judgment in this situation.

[Hekate]

Unless you take into account that others subjected to this instinctual reaction expecienced another instinctual reaction, you know the pattern, "Nnnnoooooooo!!! I won't give away the Force! I'm powerless without it! It's better to die!" The Force is like a drug: it makes you feel something normal people don't, once you start using it, it is increasingly difficult to cope with being cut off from it.

Don't forget the circumstances at Malachor V were, to an extent, unique. Not many Force-sensitives ever experienced what he did. When they were exposed to such an echo in the Force as Malachor, did they suffer the same instinctual reaction? Quite possibly. But they died where Exile survived, as they considered giving away both their life and the Force less painful than just the Force.

That is the point exactly, very well put. Exile somehow managed to let go of everything that goes along with being connected to the Force and then sever that connection absolutely. Others chose either death or corruption instead. How s/he did it somehow had an affect on the Force, it caused a wound in it. And, as previously stated by Visas and the Jedi Masters, the Exile feels empty to them, as if s/he is nothing. The Masters reiterate that on Dantooine again, eventhough Exile is very high level by that time and seeming to brim with Force energy. Add to that Malachor V's own echoes casting wound in the Force feels the same as Exile's, than it makes sense the Masters would cut Exile off from the Force.

 

So the question is; how does Exile use the Force? It could be Midi-chlorians, it could be a natural healing process, or through siphoning/leeching, are those it or are there other ideas? i would argue though, Exile can't actually feel nor use the Force at all. An explanation of how Exile was 'using' the Force as of waking in Peragus is Kreia put her consciousness into Exile as she formed a Force bond with her/him. In essence, Kreia had to leave some of herself in Exile in order to act as a sort of conduit to allow Exile to channel the Force. Kreia woke her/him in the kolto tank. Kreia was dead, but on contact with Exile, she came back to life. Kreia guided Exile and was an omnipresent presence within the Exile the whole time. They had a bond so strong it was unheard of, and seemed unnatural to the Jedi Masters. So i would argue that Kreia was the actual means Exile seemed to regain Force abilities. Exile felt s/he was hearing the Force from across a great distance. That implies to me it isn't actually Exile who touches the Force. The explanation for Exile's Force use resembling the leechin/siphoning is Kreia uses the Force in that way; she was, it has been said, a product of Malachor V. And all those who got touched by Malachor V's effects channel the Force in the leeching way. I think once Kreia died on Malachor V, Exile lost the link s/he had to the Force. Thus far, that is the only explanation that seems to fit the disparate pieces together without contradicting too much other stuff. It also explains why the Jedi Masters felt the leeching and echoes emanating off of Exile and their wanting to cut Exile's connection to the Force. i readily admit there are still contradictions using this possibility as the premise though ie:why would Kreia then tell her/him to join the fight against the Sith, among others.

 

You mention other Jedi at Malachor who either died or went to the dark side. Exile was different from them in exactly one thing: he was the one to activate the MSG. Therefore, the Force retaliated on him alone, not on the others.

 

I'm curious what you mean by the Force retaliating statement. Care to share?

 

As for the Jedi Masters: are we speaking about the same paranoid Jedi Masters who murdered their own Padawans due to the fear that one of them would succumb to the dark side,

 

Was this in game or in reference to different Jedi Masters? I don't recall that happening...

 

the same Masters who allowed the Mandalorians to accumulate the strength for the Mandalorian Wars, who watched silently as the Mandalorians crushed the Republic, who were too afraid to investigate what really happened on Malachor, who sentenced Exile for crimes he didn't commit - only, in their opinion, could commit, and never did, who could not foresee and prevent the disaster on Katarr, and who, finally, all of a sudden changed their position on Exile from benevolent (after he spent so much effort on stabilizing the Republic) to hostile? And now these Masters, who never knew anything about what happened to Exile, what caused him to do what he did, and what life he lived in the Outer Rim after they sentenced him for the first time, dare to judge him. I don't dare to judge them, but I think it's rather hard to come up with rational judgment in this situation.

 

I wonder if the Jedi Masters were entirely wrong with their decision to wait during the Mandalorian Wars. They sensed a bigger looming threat, and they figured they would lose any Jedi they sent to the wars either by death or falling to the DS. I don't think just sittin' on their arses was the way to go either though. Does it really matter though, as far as the Force and Exile are concerned, what s/he did in exile? Perhaps the most compelling thing to them was to deal with what to their understanding at least is this rather dangerous wound in the Force that is a threat to the galaxy. Admitedly not the best way to go about things... "Nice you could make it. Thanks for reuniting us BTW. Oh, and we're cutting you off from the Force now. It won't take but a minute..."

[Xard]

No

 

 

But there is oddity within the both Kotors that does suggest that.

 

 

 

right now I am standing back seeing what happens in Kotor 3.

 

 

I do have evidences that he manipulated the betrayel by Malak and being saved By Bastila.

 

 

Just say, it is just a theory...........and I do wonder if it holds any weight in Kotor 3.

 

It would be in character for Revan but Right now I am sitting back and see what happens.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That is something that I would hate. I'm sure Revan even knows what people are going to say when you click them. (he is pc character after all )

Edited April 25, 2006 by Xard

[Jediphile]

Of course Revan predicted everything. ABSOLUTELY everything. Revan is such a super-duper-mega-cool fanboy favorite that he MUST predict and foresee every single event in the galaxy that somehow concerns the Jedi, the Sith, the Republic or the Mandalorians to support this super-duper-mega-coolness.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Very nice

 

Don't mistake me for one of the die-hard Revan fanboys, though. I certainly don't think Revan saw the whole thing coming all along, but I do think he did by the end of the Mandalorian Wars, and the reason for that is Malachor V.

 

That is where Kreia suggests Revan learned of the true Sith, and that is the place he chose to destroy the Mandalorians and, at the same time, convert the jedi. It seems to fit rather well, I think...

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Revans secret identity is Chuck Norris.

[DeathScepter]

Crictial Moment teachings of Kreia is what my theory is based on and Revan being a stragtiest, jedi prodigy, and powerful force user.

 

 

 

I do admit that I can be wrong.

[Dark_Raven]

Revan was very gifted. A prodigy.

[Xard]

Revans secret identity is Chuck Norris.

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But he got his ass kicked by Holy grails black knight!

Edited April 26, 2006 by Xard

[Guest The Architect]

But he got his ass kicked by Holy grails black knight!

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Edited April 26, 2006 by The Architect

[Sikon]

Was this in game or in reference to different Jedi Masters? I don't recall that happening...

The Masters (Lucien Draay, Feln, Raana Tey, Q'anilia and Xamar, to be exact) who committed the murders weren't the same, but they were adviced to do so by an "affiliate on Coruscant". And it very much smells of Atris, or at least one of the big five.

[Jediphile]

Revans secret identity is Chuck Norris.

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But he got his ass kicked by Holy grails black knight!

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Nah, it was merely a flesh wound...