Revan's fate...

[Sturm]

And how do you justify dropping a third main character toward the end of a series that already has two well-defined primary characters and a barrel full of secondary characters.  It is bad enough that the villians keep changing.  And you want there to be a third PC in this game? :angry:  That is a big no-no as a story-telling device.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

its not to hard putting in a 3rd character, anyways it not our job its LA, and teh game developers decision. also we dont even know if kotor3 will be based on the period after the exile, it could be the mandalorian wars (which would be cool) or anything at all

 

In a d20 system, it's easy to justify the need for a new character, since you always begin the game at level 1.

 

Unless, that is, you want to play as Revan and begin at level 20 or as the Exile at level 30+...

 

That's a far bigger no-no.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

exactly, if you want to play revan or exile lets start off level 20 or 30, where we left off, that just removes the challenges, and i seriously dont want to set my revan + exile up again if there is an opportunity for revan and exile in the game, we should either see them as a NPC or party NPC, anyway how is revan and exile meant to talk? we dont know what they sound like they never talked (altough revan said "what" or "yes" when you scrolled through your characters)

if they are NPC party members, we should get them at the point where you are level 30 or so, then they pop in so its even.

[JohnZ117]

its not to hard putting in a 3rd character, anyways it not our job its LA, and teh game developers decision. also we dont even know if kotor3 will be based on the period after the exile, it could be the mandalorian wars (which would be cool) or anything at all

 

I did not say it was hard, I said it was "ridiculous" to introduce a third main character near the end of a story that already has two solid primary characters. The third part of a trilogy(which the KotOR series in all likelihood is) should wrap up the story, and that is not accomplishable by the methods you are suggesting.

 

exactly, if you want to play revan or exile lets start off level 20 or 30, where we left off, that just removes the challenges, and i seriously dont want to set my revan + exile up again if there is an opportunity for revan and exile in the game, we should either see them as a NPC or party NPC, anyway how is revan and exile meant to talk? we dont know what they sound like they never talked (altough revan said "what" or "yes" when you scrolled through your characters)

if they are NPC party members, we should get them at the point where you are level 30 or so, then they pop in so its even.

 

Or you could have the enemies in the game be at higher levels as well.

[Sturm]

I did not say it was hard, I said it was "ridiculous" to introduce a third main character near the end of a story that already has two solid primary characters.  The third part of a trilogy(which the KotOR series in all likelihood is)  should wrap up the story, and that is not accomplishable by the methods you are suggesting.

 

who knows the developer or LA, could put in a 3rd person, who has been witnessing all of this from the beginning whatever look at the sw movies it went for 6 movies, why cant kotor? im not saying all of this is gona happen its just a hypothetical theory and who knows they could make kotor3, and when it finishes it leaves us thinking, there are many techniques that can be used which dont follow the original conventional path, like playing a sithlord or what not

 

Or you could have the enemies in the game be at higher levels as well.

 

yes thats a possibility, but then its just like starting all over again, same leveled enemies as you the only difference is that you started off level 30, but your still playing the same character, and different enemies

Edited April 18, 2006 by Revan_Returns

[Jediphile]

I did not say it was hard, I said it was "ridiculous" to introduce a third main character near the end of a story that already has two solid primary characters.  The third part of a trilogy(which the KotOR series in all likelihood is)  should wrap up the story, and that is not accomplishable by the methods you are suggesting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You might think so, but that doesn't mean the rest of us have to agree, and I'm actually fairly certain that the developers (whoever they will be) won't either, since they'd like to sell K3 to more people than just those of us who played the last two games. If K3 is for the pc and Xbox 360, that becomes even more relevant, not less.

 

Or you could have the enemies in the game be at higher levels as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'd prefer to avoid the "uber-powergaming/munchkin"-hackfest, but that's just me - it would kill the progressive element of the game, where you watch your character rise to power...

[DeathScepter]

or you can have me write Kotor 3 and Just say Kotor 3 opening scene/beginning will not be happy nor would it be safe.

 

A captured and tortured Revan wanting to die.

 

 

T3-M4 talking to Hk-47 about the possiblity of getting new masters

 

 

New Terminator Like Hk droid.

 

 

a dark doopleganger

 

 

Death of Exile.

 

The Face of Nihilus will be revealed also his past is too revealed.

 

A gothic former lover of Revan.

[The Yeti of 66]

Well if they HAD to make you pick one or the other then it could be based on the beginning of the game. Make it more open ended. You make your character, then start somewhere. From there it has to be explained why you are a complete n00b again. You start some intro cutscene where you lose your lightsaber and learn why you can't use force powers. Some Sith suppression technique from the planets around or whatever. Then based on your choices or whatever you subtly choose whether you are Revan or the Exile, and the other will appear in some form during the game.

 

Or something. Just as long as it's done right.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

I say a third person is good. but he/she wont have much influence on the story.

[Jediphile]

I say a third person is good. but he/she wont have much influence on the story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It depends. In my own plot speculation, I made the third person the one who either orchestrates Revan's redemption or else has to kill him.

[DeathScepter]

just say, Revan's possible redemption/death can be written if Revan was the PC of kotor 3.

 

 

Suicide Scene:

 

 

After The Death of the Avatar, Revan Accepted the role as the New Avatar of Darkness.

 

Realizing the Power flowing thru him, Revan knew that the power of the dark side that the Darkness had given should be in the world of the living.

 

So Revan decides to end his life as the Avatar of Darkness and he kills himself by disbowelment from his own lightsaber.

 

 

His lover, Darth Seviole(no it is not bastila) ran to the limp body of Revan and knowing hope is all lost. She kills herself and falls next to her lover.

 

 

 

 

If Revan is going to die, that would be an interesting death scene.

[Sturm]

thats stupid, just leave it to the developers

[DeathScepter]

it is a rough draft also that idea and writing it took me about 5 mins.

 

can i do better?

 

 

YES I CAN

Edited April 20, 2006 by DeathScepter

[Jediphile]

Why would DS Revan fight for years to become the greatest and most powerful Sith of all time and then suddenly decide to kill himself?!?

[DeathScepter]

that is DS Revan going LS ending..........

 

 

 

Just say, Avatar of Darkness and the Darkness are the Ulimate areas of the Dark Side.

 

 

 

It is beyond known evil can be and surpasses it.

 

 

Darkness=Satan

 

Avatar=AntiChrist

 

 

Avatar of Darkness is what we consider what the true Antichrist is and Darkness is Satan.

 

No dedicated DSer wants to be enslaved to anyone good or evil.

 

Also Avatar is a being of pure evilness.

[Hekate]

Revan's fate, IMHO, should be fighting the "battle of belief" Kreia spoke of. She said Crude Matter, from droids to machines to soldiers even, are merely things "we" test ourselves against. That suggests to me, there is some higher/different plane stuff going on here. How one puts that into a game? haven't a clue. So, everything depends on what this "war of belief" is. Of course, most likely, that dialogue was put in to add some drama rather than as a reflection of reality. Assuming Kreia is a drama queen, than Revan is using her/his superior tactics and all that, to hamper/destroy/convert/whatever the "true" Sith. If Kreia's statements are acurate, Revan's battle is psychological and spiritual rather than physical. Story wise, i much prefer the latter. Game wise, it pretty much has to be the former (unless it is taken in the Final Fantasy "inside the beast", or any other on the list of hugely disappointing plot uncoveries where the "other/higher" plane is the same as physical reality but in blue ).

 

I must say, though, i never understood why this obsession with taking over the galaxy at any cost. If ya gotta slaughter everyone to do it, then who is left to rule? Or if all your enemies are subdued and all is in order under your control, what then? Isn't that like finishing the game? (Assuming the game actually is finished " .)

 

But that lends credence to the Revan killing him/herself at the end of it all, doesn't it? Took over the "true" Sith, too easy to conquer everyone else... sepukku

Edited April 20, 2006 by Hekate

[DeathScepter]

Well There is a ending I am writing which Revan becomes an Archangel type and fights the Avatar of Darkness in much the same way the Michael the Archangel fights Satan in the Bible during the Last Days.

[Hekate]

So my point of all this is, yes, we should be able to select the genders and alignments of Revan and the Exile and it should have some effect or impact on the game itself but I also wouldn't mind if give them fixed alignments DURING the game meaning even if Revan and the Exile were LS in K1 and K2 they will be DS, make them scripted characters for this one, just only so the developers don't have a mountain load of work to do and have more time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Mesa no like dat I really liked how KotoR II gave so much more significance to KotoR through Revan's backstory. As of the introduction of II, Revan's choices before the reveal, how her/his companions affected her/him, the struggle s/he faces after the reveal, become intrinsically tied into the future plot. Or else, what was the point? Shoulda just made it a first person shooter. I understand the need for a pre-scripting of Revan's alignment with certain possible plots, but it irritates me how if it is scripted as DS, it means LS Revan basically didn't learn nor really face her/his own inner demons (or failed with her/his internal struggle which is fine and adds depth). How her/him choosing not to join DS Bastila when it would have been so easy marks how Revan reached a new milestone in her/his personality and gained even more willpower/inner strength, become completely squashed. If those were taken into account and given some mention; that Revan fell again but with keeping her/his previous KotoR experiences important to her/him (as Jediphile suggested in an earlier post in another thread; it will take those connections Revan had established to redeem her/him - still way cool :cool: ), than i say ok. But it's not ok to disregard the previous history built-up over the earlier game.

 

I didn't write this into my K3 plot, but if Revan is DS, the devs could make him succesful in his quest to assume the throne of the dark lord of the true Sith and be the new major villain of K3. The player then has to either overthrow (= kill) Revan or (DS choice) kill him and take the throne himself. That way you don't have to "undo" the choice of K1 plotwise. I would not worry so much about the DS/LS choice for the Exile, though, since it had hardly any impact on how K2 unfolded IMHO.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And wouldn't that just make for the ultimate in irony? Begin KotoR as a mindwiped Revan who just happened have been there (head of the Sith) before already, then at the end ascends the Sith throne again, then in III, Revan again ascends then loses the Sith throne.

 

Either way, i think Revan being there facing the "true" Sith alone would take more than 4 years of plotting to be able to overthrow the current Sith ruler. These guys are supposed to be quite nasty, and "out there" Revan starts with nothing (we assume) and isn't even a part of their society as s/he was in the Republic's as a Jedi. Palpitine took what, 20 years? of plotting and building his reputation as a senator in order for him to be trusted enough to be voted supreme chancelor and plan out the whole clone army thing. Maybe it would make sense (and coinside with what Kreia said about Revan needing both Sith and Jedi allies and all that) if Revan is plotting, gathering info, establishing a "true" Sith accepted identity for her/his self (which would take some time), establishing contacts, and all that, and III could be a bit more pencil & paper RPG (yes, still with lots of killing) with having more of a campaign of messing up these "true" Sith, or reducing their threat (ie: eliminating some of their places of power as with the destruction of Malachor V) and wreaking general havok and destabalizing their government, etc. Building up to the big taking on the Lord of the "true" Sith ending.

 

How about overthrow = redeem?

 

The level thing doesn't make the slightest difference, it's just the game that's all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree. Jolee, who was *ancient* and very experienced, joined as a lvl 6 (you'd think he'd have pre-set powers, etc..) and he was lower level than Revan. Same with Kreia, etc... Start at level 1 or at level 30; doesn't really matter (although a lvl 30 start would be a nightmare for new players having to figure all these powers out at once :D ) as long as they make the opponents challenging enough.

 

 

let us think on! untill kotor3 arives, which might not come, so we shall be thinking forever!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

And how do you justify dropping a third main character toward the end of a series that already has two well-defined primary characters and a barrel full of secondary characters.  It is bad enough that the villians keep changing.  And you want there to be a third PC in this game? :angry:  That is a big no-no as a story-telling device.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think i understand what you are saying. It may well be the cast for III was set by the more important people in KotoR & KotoR II. I'd be miffed if all the KotoR & KotoR II cast was dropped for III. There is a reason they brought Bastila and Carth back in KotoR II... i think there was a reason ... tell me there was a reason!

 

However, it is possible KotoR will be there just to tell Revan's story and to introduce the timeline etc.. and KotoR II is there to establish the premise of III - people from here having to go there to save here - and Exile'll be demoted to "plot device" status as Revan was, with Exile being the binding element to bring in the new cast of characters who have to follow Exile's example who is following Revan's example, although, the quasi-ending of KotoR doesn't actually state Exile follows Revan. Maybe Revan comes back from her/his forray into the Unknown Regions and has to kick the new Dark Lord of the Sith: Exile's butt. Wouldn't that be something?

 

I say a third person is good. but he/she wont have much influence on the story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It depends. In my own plot speculation, I made the third person the one who either orchestrates Revan's redemption or else has to kill him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But how would that person be significant in a personal way to either Revan or the story? I think that is what JohnZ117 is driving at.

[Jediphile]

But it's not ok to disregard the previous history built-up over the earlier game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No, it's not, but then I don't think that's what The Architect is suggesting (judging from my previous talks with him). It seems to be that he is merely suggesting that Revan be DS for whatever reason, because that makes writing K3 much easier. In my own plot suggestion, there was another reason. Because you do meet Revan in K2 (after a fashion). And you meet yourself (the Exile)! It was in the cave on Korriban, where you have visions. First you had two visions of the past (Malak recruiting jedi at the academy and the Exile leading troops against the Mandalorians on Dxun). Then you had an encounter from the present (Kreia being confronted by several of your other companions). And finally you meet Revan and yourself. Isn't that the future? And note that if you force sight at that point, you can see that both Revan and the Exile have DS mastery.

 

Either way, i think Revan being there facing the "true" Sith alone would take more than 4 years of plotting to be able to overthrow the current Sith ruler.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Revan's already been at it for four years when K2 begins. Add however long K3 takes place after K2 to that...

 

These guys are supposed to be quite nasty, and "out there" Revan starts with nothing (we assume) and isn't even a part of their society as s/he was in the Republic's as a Jedi. Palpitine took what, 20 years? of plotting and building his reputation as a senator in order for him to be trusted enough to be voted supreme chancelor and plan out the whole clone army thing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Several things here...

 

Palpatine was very subtle, longsighted, and patient. Revan is far more hands-on, decisive, and "cut to the chase"...

 

Also, there is a big difference between subveriting the rule of the republic, where jedi and others are constantly looking for corruption in the system, and doing it among the sith, where powergames and corrupting is expected as a fact of life

 

Maybe it would make sense (and coinside with what Kreia said about Revan needing both Sith and Jedi allies and all that)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actually I think that comment was just put in K2 to signal that the Exile will have followed in K3 no matter if he turned LS or DS...

 

if Revan is plotting, gathering info, establishing a "true" Sith accepted identity for her/his self (which would take some time), establishing contacts, and all that, and III could be a bit more pencil & paper RPG (yes, still with lots of killing) with having more of a campaign of messing up these "true" Sith, or reducing their threat (ie: eliminating some of their places of power as with the destruction of Malachor V) and wreaking general havok and destabalizing their government, etc. Building up to the big taking on the Lord of the "true" Sith ending.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's what I think Revan is planning, yes. If DS he does it for the power. If LS he does it save the republic.

 

I say a third person is good. but he/she wont have much influence on the story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It depends. In my own plot speculation, I made the third person the one who either orchestrates Revan's redemption or else has to kill him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But how would that person be significant in a personal way to either Revan or the story? I think that is what JohnZ117 is driving at.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I didn't give that character a personal way to Revan. I did, however, give that person a special empathic ability to sense the motivations of others, so that s/he could determine Revan's (and Exile's) hidden feelings. And I brought Bastila in as a major companion fairly early in my plot, so that Revan would have a personal connection to her, and she would have one to the new character.

Edited April 20, 2006 by Jediphile

[The Yeti of 66]

Palpatine had to wait 20 years because he not only had to wait for Anakin to come of age, but he was in a corrupt Republic entangled in politics. The KotOR setting is one of apparent martial law or it's just because the outer rim isn't so entangled in the matters of the united Republic, and only of their individual planets. And with that the Jedi and Sith are very much independant and easy, while in Palp's era everything is controlled by the senate. Including the Jedi.

 

I think it was pretty well said in KotOR 2. You move from the past, to the present, and then to the future in the temple. The past was Malak and the Mandalorians, the present/near future was Kreia, and that would mean the future probably holds a fight with Revan... If you're the exile that is.

[Guest The Architect]

Thanks Jediphile for clearing things up. Hekate, for a start, read my signature. You obviously mis-understood what I was trying to say. The one thing I definately want in K3 is for the new main character to be able to select the genders and alignments of Revan and the Exile and their appearences IF they appear in K3. I loathe the idea of the game developers opting to base K3 off fixed Revan's and Exile's with set genders, alignments etc because it's unfair, it takes away the freedom, the fun, it makes things to restricting and it's completely lazy and uncreative to do this, so I want to be able to choose Revan and the Exile's genders and alignments, etc.

 

But what I was saying is DURING K3 Revan and the Exile should be DS Sith Lord's with their masks on. Revan with his/her mask on and the Exile with his/her mask on. Of course if you set your Revan and Exile as LS, there would have to be an explanation as to why and how they both turned to the DS, well I personally think Jediphile has proposed an acceptable and convincing explanation as to why they both should be DS in K3 regardless. I'm not saying Revan and the Exile's backgrounds should be fixed Hekate, I above all am strongly against the idea of game developers forcing 'fixed' Revan's and Exile's on us considering YOU from a certain point of view are Revan and the Exile. It would be very ****house IMHO. But what I am saying is that they could make Revan and the Exile scripted characters DURING K3, NOT BEFORE THE EVENTS OF K3, CAPISH?

 

It would make things a hell of a lot easier for the developers. Now what I'd suggest is that if the main character sets Revan and/or the Exile as LS they should be redeemable. If you set Revan and/or the Exile as DS then they are un-redeemable and LS'ders would have the option of killing Revan and/or the Exile or sparing them and placing them under arrest as traitos to the Republic behalf of the Galactic Senate.

 

I'm not sure about the other scenario's yet, but I would propose some sort of 'fixed' LS ending to K3 since it should be the final chapter of a trilogy so in order to make way for future KOTOR games, you probably need to have some sort of fixed Jedi Order/Republic prevailed ending so you don't have to explain what happened in the previous KOTOR's and the game developers have their own storyline to work with and don't have to rely on what happened in the previous KOTOR's, do you get what I'm saying?

 

For example, if your DS and you've set Revan and the Exile as DS you'd probably destroy each other or something along those lines, you may all join forces or team up with someone to defeat the other, etc, and then stab the person who you help defeat the other in the back but in this case, one of the three DS'ders would survive, either you, Revan or the Exile.

 

So I'd suggest that IF one of the three DS'ders is still alive, an uber-powerful Jedi Master, perhaps Master Vandar, if the developers can somehow explain regardless of Revan's alignment how he survives, rocks up and you take control of him and kill your main character or Revan or the Exile, whoever is still alive. Anyway, that's all I have to say at the moment but Hekate, I mentioned in my previous post that we should be able to select the genders and alignments of Revan and the Exile and I thought everything I said before was pretty clear but obviously it wasn't, meh, it doesn't matter anyway.

[The Yeti of 66]

Vandar isn't Yoda. And even still Revan could probably kick his ass. If not then Exile could, since siphoning him or just being in the presence of a force wound would make Yoda an easy opponent.

 

And to be honest, Vandar was simple. I lied right to his face. He didn't have enough foresight to see breakfast, let alone the next move to parry from an opponent.

 

Also just having your main character(s) killed off would be disappointing beyond belief.

Edited April 21, 2006 by The Yeti of 66

[Guest The Architect]

Vandar isn't Yoda. And even still Revan could probably kick his ass. If not then Exile could, since siphoning him or just being in the presence of a force wound would make Yoda an easy opponent.

 

And to be honest, Vandar was simple. I lied right to his face. He didn't have enough foresight to see breakfast, let alone the next move to parry from an opponent.

 

Also just having your main character(s) killed off would be disappointing beyond belief.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well these are all just rough ideas, what your saying is fair enough though. When it comes to Master Vandar, I tend to agree with hawk, even though we are told that he died on Katarr (LS Revan) or he died during the battle of the Star Forge (DS Revan) he still could be alive. All it takes is some creative writing to explain why he is still alive, it's actually possible to do so IMO.

 

Personally I think it was weak of BioWare to kill off Vandar (DS Revan) (someone of Yoda's species) like that, he deserves to live on. And dying on Katarr is just weak too (LS Revan), seriously what do the game developers have against Master Vandar killing him off in such cowardly ways? If they were going to kill of Master Vandar then why couldn't he have been one of the Jedi that DS Exile hunts down and kills or Kreia kills (LS Exile) in K2. I supposed it was because he COULD of died during the battle of the Star Forge (DS Revan). But surely they could of explained how he survived right if he did right?

 

And your main characters wouldn't necessarily have to die, it would heavily depend upon the choices that are made and there alignments. I just think that the DS'ders need to lose no matter what, they could either be arrested, killed or redeemed. Why would you do this? Well, for future KOTOR games they won't have to cater for LS and DS endings would they? As long as the Jedi Order and the Republic survive (for continuity sake) and the next game is set something like 300 years after K3 then it doesn't really matter who survived or what side everybody is on, all that is needed to know is that no matter what, there is a Republic and a Jedi Order for K4, at least...

Edited April 21, 2006 by The Architect

[Hekate]

Damn it Master! i'm a N00b, not a Rhodes scholar! :D

 

 

Time to clear some things up...

 

I was saying i don't want KotOR III to lose sight of Revan's past, especially not those of KotOR whom s/he tavelled with, nor of how they affected Revan. I like what they began with their relationships and psychology, so i'd like to see more of it. A denoument if it must end. With the alignment thing, if it has to be done for plot, so be it, but as you (The Architect) have stated (it is right there in your signature, ain't it? ) that is a cheap way out. Which they should not take. Ever.

 

 

As far as meeting Revan in the tomb signifying the future goes, i thought that since when Exile first enters, the ghostly DS self of Exile standing next to Revan fades away as Revan moves in to kick Exile's llittle hine, that signified something different than a literal interpretation of the future. I mean, it fades away as Exile fights Revan's specter, so with just a little bit of reaching , i thought it meant not being tied to Revan's fate. I understood it as clearing up the past in order to be able to face the future. In fact, i thought it also, by extention, was indicating Revan was also fighting Exile in Revan's own struggle to be free of the deathgrip the past has on both of them (Revan left without explanation, Exile went into, err... exile, for a decade). When i think of what Revan and Exile represent to eachother; how to Revan, Exile is the one who 'gave the order' (blood on Exile's hands enlieu of Revan's), and to Exile, Revan is the initiator (started it all in the first place, reason for having blood on her/his hands), it makes sense Exile would have to face the root factor leading to her/his exile. Similar to how Malak asked Revan if things would have been different if s/he hadn't lead him down the dark path in the first place, or if, had chance given him the opportunity, would he have been able to be redeemed. Guess i'm saying the Revan confrontation was to force Exile to work on her/his past directly related to degree of responsibility.

 

Oo, and didn't Kreia say the whole point of the tomb romp was to confront the past in order for Exile to be able to learn the higher mysteries? Isn't that why Exile has to be a certain level and clear L/DS alignment in order to gain access to the tomb? When the crew confronted Kreia and Exile chooses the 'apathy is death' option, that would indicate a foreshadowing of the decission to come at Malachor V, and Exile's unwillingness to face the past. The tomb experience is kinda akin to Kreia saying on Dxun Exile has to face the past in order for her/him to be able to face the future. Same with Atris (the first time around). Since it isn't until after the final confrontation with the Jedi Masters on Dantooine that Exile finds out about her/him being a wound in the Force, doesn't that signify the culmination of catching-up to the present up to that point? And the future is then set in motion by the decision at Malachor V facing Kreia. Or am i just nuts? :D

 

 

But what I am saying is that they could make Revan and the Exile scripted characters DURING K3, NOT BEFORE THE EVENTS OF K3, CAPISH?

 

Loud and clear :D But i was specifically saying with scripting the alingments for III, they risk the possibility of screwing up what has been built-up in KotOR and KotOR II. And at that thought, i run in fear.

 

I'm not sure about the other scenario's yet, but I would propose some sort of 'fixed' LS ending to K3 since it should be the final chapter of a trilogy so in order to make way for future KOTOR games, you probably need to have some sort of fixed Jedi Order/Republic prevailed ending so you don't have to explain what happened in the previous KOTOR's and the game developers have their own storyline to work with and don't have to rely on what happened in the previous KOTOR's, do you get what I'm saying?

 

I concur. The current state of "the Republic is on the brink of fallling apart but yet still seems to be able to hold it together regardless of how bad things get. But they are on the verge of collapse... really... they are... trust us *wink*" is reaching the point of implausability.

 

For example, if your DS and you've set Revan and the Exile as DS you'd probably destroy each other or something along those lines, you may all join forces or team up with someone to defeat the other, etc, and then stab the person who you help defeat the other in the back but in this case, one of the three DS'ders would survive, either you, Revan or the Exile.

 

Or in the same vein as the Sith Lords of old, that in-fighting kills them all a la Ajunta Pall

 

Anyway, that's all I have to say at the moment but Hekate, I mentioned in my previous post that we should be able to select the genders and alignments of Revan and the Exile and I thought everything I said before was pretty clear but obviously it wasn't, meh, it doesn't matter anyway.

 

"It's my first day" - Homer Simpson

 

Seriously though, i must have really mucked something up somewhere 'cause i re-read the offending post and i, in my folly, cannot see where i implied you wanted to go pre-scripting the pre-KotOR III Revan & Exile. Doesn't that just go to show how Obi-Wan said it best (from memory) "you will find many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view"

 

Palpatine was very subtle, longsighted, and patient. Revan is far more hands-on, decisive, and "cut to the chase"... 

 

Revan was long-sighted too. S/he planned the whole Jedi involvement in the Mandalorian wars thing and that was just as a first step on the road to; first; taking over the Sith by creating a power spot but only with the right timing which allowed for the best results in converting Jedi and non-Force sensitives, then, taking over/creating the Sith and finding/mastering the Star Forge, taking over the Republic, then pareparing for the "true" Sith invasion... Wait a second, you put a in there, didn't ya?

 

And I brought Bastila in as a major companion fairly early in my plot, so that Revan would have a personal connection to her, and she would have one to the new character.

 

I don't care how many people hate him, i want Carth in it too. I felt his character was integral to Revan's development, for good, or ill. And he had some very funny lines

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

so do i. carth may wine a lot but he is essential.

[Guest The Architect]

I agree that Carth should play a major role in K3, ONLY if you set Revan as LS, otherwise, he's dead if you set Revan as DS. So I don't want to see Carth at all when I set Revan as DS in K3 (if they make it and if there not going to abandon the Revan/Exile story-arch)...

 

And by the way Hekate, my mistake. I re-read your post and now I get what you were trying to say, I just miss interpreted it. But what I don't get is this statement of yours "But as you (The Architect) have stated (it is right there in your signature, ain't it? tongue.gif ) that is a cheap way out. Which they should not take. Ever." What do you mean a cheap way out which they should not take?

Edited April 21, 2006 by The Architect

[Jediphile]

Damn it Master! i'm a N00b, not a Rhodes scholar!  :D

 

Time to clear some things up...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You mean, your opening statement didn't clear enough up?

 

With the alignment thing, if it has to be done for plot, so be it, but as you (The Architect) have stated (it is right there in your signature, ain't it? ) that is a cheap way out. Which they should not take. Ever.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think you, The Architect, and myself are all on the same page here...

 

As far as meeting Revan in the tomb signifying the future goes, i thought that since when Exile first enters, the ghostly DS self of Exile standing next to Revan fades away as Revan moves in to kick Exile's llittle hine, that signified something different than a literal interpretation of the future. I mean, it fades away as Exile fights Revan's specter, so with just a little bit of reaching  , i thought it meant not being tied to Revan's fate. I understood it as clearing up the past in order to be able to face the future.

(snip)

Guess i'm saying the Revan confrontation was to force Exile to work on her/his past directly related to degree of responsibility.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, but note that the ghostly version of the Exile is always DS. I've played that part several times, and it's always a DS version of the Exile standing there. Always. Now, if you play Exile as LS as I do, then s/he was never DS, since it was prevent precisely that fate that s/he denied the force in the first place. So where does that DS mastery bit come from?

 

Oo, and didn't Kreia say the whole point of the tomb romp was to confront the past in order for Exile to be able to learn the higher mysteries? Isn't that why Exile has to be a certain level and clear L/DS alignment in order to gain access to the tomb?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, but going through that bit again and paying close attention to ghost-Kreia as opposed to the real Kreia. The latter tells you afterwards that you faced visions of the past, but ghost-Kreia mentions the present and the future as well. And I tend to believe even the ghost of Kreia over Kreia herself...

 

Or am i just nuts?  :D 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You sure you want an answer to that? :cool:

 

 

Revan was long-sighted too. S/he planned the whole Jedi involvement in the Mandalorian wars thing and that was just as a first step on the road to; first; taking over the Sith by creating a power spot but only with the right timing which allowed for the best results in converting Jedi and non-Force sensitives, then, taking over/creating the Sith and finding/mastering the Star Forge, taking over the Republic, then pareparing for the "true" Sith invasion...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Revan was long-sighted, yes, but I don't think s/he had much patience. Revan is not the type to wait around for things to turn out as s/he wants them to. Revan is long-sighted, but s/he will make things go the way s/he intends them to if they don't by themselves.

 

Also, while I agree that Revan corrupted the jedi as a means to create an army to fight the true Sith, it is not clear at which point s/he embraced that plan. I doubt it was before Revan learned of the true Sith on Malachor V. It could have been before, and I have defended that position in the past, but I've changed my view on it a little. I do think Revan want to war with the Mandalorians simply to save the innocent (and incidentally the Republic), assuming LS Revan that is, and then only found out about the true Sith later in the war. Anyway, it probably doesn't matter so much...

 

Wait a second, you put a    in there, didn't ya? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I don't care how many people hate him, i want Carth in it too. I felt his character was integral to Revan's development, for good, or ill. And he had some very funny lines 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Carth should be in there for a LS Revan, yes. I'm not sure I want him as a companion, though, since that doesn't make much sense. In my own plot, Carth would be essential to redeeming the fallen LSF Revan-turned-DS. And naturally Carth should be commanding the republic forces during a final confrontation with the true Sith. If Revan was LS, that is, otherwise Cede.