Let

[Craigboy2]

Should we really be buying oil from somewhere as unstable as the Middle East? And most people over there hate us. Seeing as you see most of them shouting

[Nartwak]

Let’s get Political

Let's not but say we did.

[metadigital]

Or, how about we try to gather some facts before we spout off nonsense and air our bigotry in public?

[Craigboy2]

Or, how about we try to gather some facts before we spout off nonsense and air our bigotry in public?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bigotry? That was just a small part of my post (I think it was only a sentence), I'm glad you ignored the rest of it.

[Atreides]

I'm hoping to see a major shift away from oil as a source of energy (and dump the ME) but it isn't going to happen anytime soon. The conditions are there - the desire to switch because oil's expensive but there's no alternative that's anywhere feasible at this stage.

 

Even if they discovered something big it'd take years to construct infrastructure to start production on large scale and replacement of oil-based technology.

 

Plus there's the big question whether it makes financial sense too. If the US govt decided to spend USD1.50 on a "unit" of energy from the alternate source as opposed to USD1 on conventional oil the US citizens will be pretty pissed. Not everyone will be convinced that its in their best interests to pay significantly more (factor in the tech shift costs) while there's cheaper alternatives.

 

Of course China and Indian would be laughing their asses off because they have a huge advantage. It's probably because of that competitiveness that the US won't be able to commit until it makes economic sense to shift.

 

Conclusion: Oil's around to stay for a long time and it's not just because of the nasty oil companies dictating the pace. It's you, the market.

[Craigboy2]

I'm hoping to see a major shift away from oil as a source of energy (and dump the ME) but it isn't going to happen anytime soon.  The conditions are there - the desire to switch because oil's expensive but there's no alternative that's anywhere feasible at this stage.

 

Even if they discovered something big it'd take years to construct infrastructure to start production on large scale and replacement of  oil-based technology.

 

Plus there's the big question whether it makes financial sense too.  If the US govt decided to spend USD1.50 on a "unit" of energy from the alternate source as opposed to USD1 on conventional oil the US citizens will be pretty pissed.  Not everyone will be convinced that its in their best interests to pay significantly more (factor in the tech shift costs) while there's cheaper alternatives. 

 

Of course China and Indian would be laughing their asses off because they have a huge advantage.  It's probably because of that competitiveness that the US won't be able to commit until it makes economic sense to shift.

 

Conclusion: Oil's around to stay for a long time and it's not just because of the nasty oil companies dictating the pace.  It's you, the market.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well how long is a while wise guy? After awhile the cost really won't be worth it and people probably will change it only because they're pissed off at the prices they're having to pay but that's looking that's the most pessimistic solution I can think of. Another thing is, what else can I fill my car up with? It's not like I have access to much else.

[Atreides]

I think the US has been trying to push ethanol mixes in gas for vehicles. They're fiddling with production and distribution plus there's the concept of a hybrid car that's powered by part electricity and gas depending on which is more efficient.

 

As for how long, no idea but I won't be surprised if we're still mainly running on oil 5 years later.

[SteveThaiBinh]

It's interesting that the United States is the world's leading advocate of globalisation and free trade, yet some voices in the US are now demanding autarchy.

 

I don't pretend to be an expert on the Middle East after only two weeks here, but if most people hate America, I've yet to see evidence of it, though there are real security concerns for all Westerners. You really should come out and visit and try to get a more balanced view.

[Surreptishus]

It's interesting that the United States is the world's leading advocate of globalisation and free trade, yet some voices in the US are now demanding autarchy.

 

I don't pretend to be an expert on the Middle East after only two weeks here, but if most people hate America, I've yet to see evidence of it, though there are real security concerns for all Westerners.  You really should come out and visit and try to get a more balanced view.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What are you doing in Saudi Arabia? Where are you staying? Who did you meet? What did you see?

[Lucius]

They made Steve a prince!

[SteveThaiBinh]

I can't say where I am, for security reasons. :ph34r:

 

If you have clearance, you may look under the spoiler tag. :D

 

 

I'm in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, I'm teaching here, I met my students, mostly young male professional Saudis notable for their complete lack of hatred of all things Western, and every day I see the consequences of trying to operate a busy modern city with no public transport.

 

[Lucius]

Are these high society kids or regular folks?

[SteveThaiBinh]

Not high society at all. Middle and lower-middle class, I'd say, many of them sponsored by the companies they work for. No princes, alas. I was offered a job teaching the spoiled brats of millionaires, but it sounded like a living hell.

 

I don't want to take this off-topic any more (sorry to the original poster) as US energy policy is very interesting. I'll put together a more considered post with my impressions of Saudi Arabia at a later date, if you're interested.

[Hildegard]

He wouldn't be the first or the last

 

This reminds me of that funny story with those Saudi princes and the Pakistani airforce general that were allegedly helping Al Qaida. One prince died during a standard operation, they changed the cause of death like 10 times in the end heart complication 'won'; the second died in a wierd car crash on his way to the funural of the first prince. Third, my favourite, died as they said, of thirst about 50 km of Abu Dhabi.....

The Pakistani airforce general, well moments before his plane took of, they had to do a sudden unexpected hydrolics check on his plane, yes his plane crashed killing him and his whole staff...my....my....

 

Sometimes those guys in the CIA really crack me up

[Atreides]

I'm in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, I'm teaching here, I met my students, mostly young male professional Saudis notable for their complete lack of hatred of all things Western, and every day I see the consequences of trying to operate a busy modern city with no public transport.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are they representative of the general population and have you tried talking with them about America?

 

Anyway be careful - there are nuts out there who like making non-consensual videos for the internet.

[Judge Hades]

Here in Ames, Iowa Iowa State University has a major Ethanol research going onand we have one of the largest ethanol plants in the US. With the use of BioDiesel as well I think we are well on the road for renewable fuel source and perhaps in ten years time we can ditch the Middle East and all their problems like a bad habit.

[WITHTEETH]

10 years? That may be too late.

[Atreides]

Here in Ames, Iowa Iowa State University has a major Ethanol research going onand we have one of the largest ethanol plants in the US.  With the use of BioDiesel as well I think we are well on the road for renewable fuel source and perhaps in ten years time we can ditch the Middle East and all their problems like a bad habit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That can't come soon enough for me. Besides, getting something up that'll survive a real oil crisis (say a realisation that there's very little left or a real shortage) that sends the prices skyrocketing to the point of economical collapse is a good idea before it's too late.

[Calax]

wheee! I'm having Act of War:Direct action flashbacks from this thread!

[Oerwinde]

Should we really be buying oil from somewhere as unstable as the Middle East?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If I remember right, the US gets something like 60-70% of its oil from Canada.

[Walsingham]

I don't think it's that high. More like 30%. But virtually all Canuck oil ends up in America.

 

The neatest idea I heard recently was one I overheard on the train about how there is a type of tree which grows in desert conditions, stabilising them, and coincidentally can be processed to extract fuel oil. Yet the gulf states seem intent on spending their money on rolexes.

[Atreides]

Reclamation of desert? Sounds really cool.

 

Anyway my pipe dream's been some kind of infrastructure that can stand a lightning strike and make use of its (free) awesome power.

[Oerwinde]

I don't think it's that high. More like 30%. But virtually all Canuck oil ends up in America.

 

The neatest idea I heard recently was one I overheard on the train about how there is a type of tree which grows in desert conditions, stabilising them, and coincidentally can be processed to extract fuel oil. Yet the gulf states seem intent on spending their money on rolexes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ok, just looked it up. Wow... I was WAY off. We supply more like 20%, with Venezuela and Mexico in 2nd and 3rd place with around 16 and 13. I need to learn to actually look this stuff up before posting instead of just relying on stuff I've heard. We're still the top source of imported oil to the US, which I doubt many extremist conservatives realize when they talk about how useless canada is to the US.

Edited March 27, 2006 by Oerwinde

[metadigital]

10 years? That may be too late. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How long do you think it will/would take to change the fuel infrastructure of the industrialized world?

 

 

Looks like Hydrogen powered engines, with water vapour exhaust, are very close to the current cost-entry-point of petrol/diesel (about 2-5 times current pump prices iirc). The biggest impediment is populating the environment with filling stations ...

[thepixiesrock]

We can make it so we don't use as much gas if we attach a bunch of mini wind-turbines to the cars, so as they drive down the road, they will be making energy.