Communism

[julianw]

You can thank him but what about the Facist government you live under?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You mean the Bush Administration and this horrible two-party system we have going on? Though it's hardly Facist, I can't deny that I am very disappointed by the direction it's currently going.

[Elven6]

Kinda is, their pushing the middle east to the limit, their looking for a fight not to mention their hidden Agenda with India.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

If Stalin lead the army which is in Afganistan, under his rule they would have found Bin Laden

 

Of course he would sit back and laugh since America created Bin Laden in order to destory the Soviet Union

 

Shadow, Americans torture Rebels, they shoot bystanders

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well Russian methods are a tad more extreme. Stalin was not a nice bloke. Effective , but definately not a nice chap.

 

Well that happened. What Bin Ladens contribution was I dont know.

 

I'll let one of the Americans deal with that. But it certainly dosnt fit with my perception of America.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

You mean the Bush Administration and this horrible two-party system we have going on? Though it's hardly Facist, I can't deny that I am very disappointed by the direction it's currently going.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Voter apathy is either a sign of contentment or despondence.

[julianw]

Kinda is, their pushing the middle east to the limit, their looking for a fight not to mention their hidden Agenda with India.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well. The big fish will always bully the little ones. As meta pointed out before 'aboslute power corrupts absolutely', we need a more effective international organization than the UN to keep the superpowers in check.

[Elven6]

America trained Bin Laden and Al Quedia to fight the Soviet troops in Afganistan

 

The Soviet Union played the game but they didn't make such stupid mistakes.

 

Like I said no system is perfect but a Iron fist helps (Not a dictatorship!)

Edited March 17, 2006 by Elven6

[julianw]

Voter apathy is either a sign of contentment or despondence.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly, the combination of both has kept American government system from progressing.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Well. The big fish will always bully the little ones. As meta pointed out before 'aboslute power corrupts absolutely', we need a more effective international organization than the UN to keep the superpowers in check.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well the real question is. Do you force civilization on people or do you just wait for them to "grow up" ?

[Elven6]

You can't force civilization on people, it can destroy their religous values

 

Look at what America did with Iraq, they forced Democracy on them and it caused riots and bombings.

[Atreides]

I heard Ayn Rand was a former Soviet that moved to the US and wrote a few books. Anyone know what they're about and how realistic they are?

[Elven6]

Mabye she wrote what the west wanted to hear?

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

You can't force civilization on people, it can destroy their religous values

 

Look at what America did with Iraq, they forced Democracy on them and it caused riots and bombings.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The Romans would disagree. The Romans also had a neat way of incorporating the local Dieties (Like Sulus Minerva at Bath).

 

Well America tried to do things on the cheap. And they dont have the sort of ruthless streak required like the Romans did.

 

Well imagine Iraq as a pressure cooker with Saddam sitting on top of it. Once you take him off the pressure explodes.

 

Democracy is rarely painless.

[Atreides]

Mabye she wrote what the west wanted to hear?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Apparently it's drawn from her personal experiences. Maybe it's about the hopes that are crushed on the road to utopia.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Like democracy is perfect. All systems seem to die due to the excess of its greatest luxury.

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Well I like it

 

Like an MMPORG sounds great on paper. Then you add the people...

[Chupacabra]

Mabye she wrote what the west wanted to hear?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Or maybe she wrote what she actually experienced. Or maybe you should stop living in your own naive fantasy world where the USSR was the bastion of enlightenment and fair treatment and Communism is the answer to all of life's problems. Kill a Commy for mommy, children! Not really, that's murder and is frowned upon in many cultures.

Edited March 17, 2006 by Chupacabra

[Elven6]

Mabye you should tell your government your not their slave, thing for your self for a change

 

Well im gonna go sleep so we can probably pick this up tommrow

 

 

Edit: Before I go my dad went to the USSR and he said the people their were happy, infact they sang songs in Hindi while waiting for their train.

Edited March 17, 2006 by Elven6

[Hurlshort]

If America is so bad, why are there not more Americans fleeing the country? Every communist country has had serious internal problems. The US isn't perfect, but when you compare it to the USSR, Cuba, and China, you'll lose every time.

 

America's foriegn policy is manic. There has never been a cohesive plan. Power changes hands so often that it's impossible to create this evil empire people seem to think they are. It's an extremely complex political system that doesn't conform to any simple label. Right now the Executive branch has been riding high with this war on terrorism, but every day the rumblings get louder and louder. Not to mention, the current office holders only have 3 years left. No matter who wins, you'll see a policy shift, because no president wants to be remembered as "the guy who did the same thing as the guy before him."

[Chupacabra]

Mabye you should tell your government your not their slave, thing for your self for a change

 

Well im gonna go sleep so we can probably pick this up tommrow

 

 

Edit: Before I go my dad went to the USSR and he said the people their were happy, in fact they sang songs in Hindi while waiting for their train.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not my government's slave. We are a DEMOCRACY. We have freedoms. We are allowed to think for ourselves, unlike the Soviet Union where having a different opinion could get you killed. We don't get shot or sent to prison camps for speaking out against our government. We aren't like North Korea, where one could get punished for a crime his or her parents committed. See, over here we do have freedom, contrary to what your media might spoonfeed you over there.

 

As for your father's visit to the USSR, the Soviet Union was a colossal collection of countries, so you can't judge it all by one personal experience. And if he went to it during the 1980's, then it was during its revolutionary years where the peoples of the USSR were just experiencing new freedoms. I'd also like to know where exactly he went, seeing as Hindi is spoken in India, not Russia or the USSR. And even if it wasn't during the 1980's, people under brutal governments live in fear. The Iraqis did the same thing before the fall of Saddam Hussein - supporting and celebrating him in front of cameras. But deep down, they all hated him. But they did not publicly denounce him because they feared for their lives.

 

And maybe if it was such a bastion of happiness, then there wouldn't have been a flood of people leaving it after the fall of the Berlin wall. Or maybe there wouldn't have been a flood of writers denouncing Communism and the government after freedom of speech and the press was finally allowed! Maybe you should talk to a relative of someone who was killed under Stalin's rule or one of the millions killed under Mao Tse Tung during China's communist revolution. You've basically defended Communism and the USSR to the point of ignoring facts, or just plain denying them! You haven't even been able to back up a single one of your claims. The best you've done is "well my daddy told me..." and "well, there was this one time, I can't remember, but there was this one law..." Honestly, if you're going to argue your point, you'll have to do a lot better than that.

 

*end rant mode*

Edited March 17, 2006 by Chupacabra

[taks]

Taks to respond to your comment on the demand situation

 

We could have seen that fixed if the Soviet Union did not fall, Mikhail Gorbachev was restructuring the Union, he dealt with this but not to a full extent, he allowed private business to work which was a start

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

but that's capitalism, not communism. so my point stands.

 

i just skimmed meta, so apologies if i did not read deep enough to see your full intent.

 

taks

[taks]

Though a system similar to communism did exist during the early ages of man when the tribes shared all the food hunted or collected equally among all the tribal members. It's one of the reasons that Marx believed that such a system could exist once again. I guess in those early days, the constant struggle to survive in harsh environments with limited tools suppressed man's lust for luxury. But in today's world, where we are constantly seeking new ways to make our lives more gratifying, how is getting an equal share of the pie no matter the amount of efforts you put into your life ever going to satisfy us?

in small communities there is more work than people to do the work. there is a surplus of jobs. it's a matter of efficiency - one person is required to do many jobs for only 10 people, but the same one person can probably also do it for 100 or more. the need for work does not increase 1:1 with population.

 

small communities also get around the demand issue, as you noted, because they're struggling for needs, not desires.

 

@taks - There is no such thing as demand in communism since I believe that Ferraris and Rolexes would be raining from the skies.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hehe... yes, that, too.

 

taks

[taks]

If America is so bad, why are there not more Americans fleeing the country?

michael jackson is fleeing. i coulda swore george clooney was going to flee after the last election, or was it sean penn? oh well, it must've been a dream.

 

America's foriegn policy is manic.  There has never been a cohesive plan.  Power changes hands so often that it's impossible to create this evil empire people seem to think they are.  It's an extremely complex political system that doesn't conform to any simple label.

this is true.

 

No matter who wins, you'll see a policy shift, because no president wants to be remembered as "the guy who did the same thing as the guy before him."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

actually, if you look at history, the policy has been pretty consistent, albeit perhaps a little manic as you suggest. even our economic direction has remained largely unchanged. liberties slowly erode under republican and democrat leaders alike. it doesn't matter who's in office, as the only difference is which side is complaining about it.

 

taks

[213374U]

You can't force civilization on people, it can destroy their religous values

That was pretty rich.

 

Let's have a bit of mental gymnastics. If forcing civilization on people can destroy their religious values, that means religion and civilization are incompatible, since we also know that an integral part of civilization is tolerance to the values and ideas of others. Diversity of values and ideas actually enriches civilization. Following this, the only possible incompatibilities with civilization arise from barbaric practices.

 

So, the conclusion derived from that statement is that religion equals barbarism?

 

You are a genius.

[julianw]

I'm not my government's slave.  We are a DEMOCRACY.  We have freedoms.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Though you are clearly the slave of the flying menace.

 

Btw, Mao didn't kill millions during the Communist Revolution. (His Red Army was fighting the Japanese occupational forces first and then the very corrupt nationalists party. I don't think the causalties his army inflicted accounted to millions since he barely had one million soldiers at the start of the Chinese Civil War.)

 

Nor did he kill millions intentionally during his 30-year-reign. His government persecuted hundreds of thousands of people who opposed their policies. Many were done by the 'Gang of Four' without his knowledge or consent. And a lot of the killings were also the work of the 'Red Guards' against the law. (Angry teenagers with blind faith in the fundamental ideas of communism, waving red banners and shouting 'Mao forever', they would break into the homes of 'conservatives' - mainly the educators or industrialists and prowestern, and beat them to death. You get the picture.) If we blame Mao for those killings, blame him for not controlling the situation during the 'Cultural Revolution' and upholding the laws of the country effectively enough.

 

Millions, however, did die because of famine due to several untimely droughts and of course his f***ed-up economic policy. Though Americans who cry impeachment when few thousand dies need to understand that in China, life is worth little more than sh*t. The emperors don't care his people are starving to death as long as he's banging his concubines night in and night out. This has been going on for nearly five thousand years. Mao and his generation are only the first to come out of medieval China and comparing to past emperors, Mao certainly doesn't get an 'F' simply based on the fact that he was one key reason that China drove out the Japanese army and he had kept China intact through two major wars.

Edited March 17, 2006 by julianw

[Nartwak]

You are a genius.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not sure what you're expecting out of the guy. He thinks the US governmnet is monitoring everybody's posts for terrorist activity.

[LoneWolf16]

I'm not my government's slave.  We are a DEMOCRACY.  We have freedoms.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I agree with you...but we're a REPUBLIC, not a democracy. "