New Games... Dated Gameplay

[Judge Hades]

Over the last few weeks I ahve been going over a good range of games for the PC and it seems that some games have a certain lack of features that makes them seem dated before release. If one does a side by side comparison to, lets say TES 4: Oblivion and the information released about Neverwinter Nights 2, Obsidian's "new" game seems dated in its functionality compared to Bethesda game.

 

Of course someone will bring up that I comparing apples and oranges in an lame attempt to defend Obsidian but that isn't the point I am trying to make here. The point I am making is that is it acceptable to make a "new" game that has the old style gameplay but just sprucier graphics or should we, as gamers and consumers, demand better/more than that?

[SteveThaiBinh]

What are some of the main features that you're thinking of? What distinguishes modern as opposed to dated gameplay for you?

[Gorth]

Yeah, modern does not automatically imply better in any way...

[Judge Hades]

Well, for example the issue of Z Axis. This one will never go away. Some games have a fully developed Z Axis years ago while some other game types don't have an accessable one one today. Another feature would be a full controlled camera angle syste, full voice over versus partial voice overs, and so forth and so on.

Edited March 10, 2006 by Judge Hades

[mkreku]

Hey, I remember when you had to start up games from DOS and use memory controllers to fit the start-up code within 640 KB. It was an eternal hunt for the smallest, most efficient mouse drivers.

 

MODERN IS BETTER!

[BattleCookiee]

Oh, Oblivion's gameplay is so modern. Still the same since Arena, and that is like 10 years old or so? "

[astr0creep]

I find gaming to be quite similar to movies and TV, where it is not the consumer that decides what is being made, but the industry itself.

 

The "low-risk to make money" mentality is restricting the amount of varied gaming experiences. The industry serves up the same kinds of products over and over again with some slight gimmicky differences as to not get sued for plagiarism.

 

There are some exceptions of course but they usually go through a different path, almost a covert, underground path to get noticed by us gamers. Fortunately the internet helps the indies a lot in that regard I think.

 

The industry makes us choose from a pool of very similar products because variety is risky. That is the impression I get as a consumer.

[Judge Hades]

Oh, Oblivion's gameplay is so modern. Still the same since Arena, and that is like 10 years old or so?  "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That is exactly my point. Its been around for 10 years with only sigificant changes have been the increase in the quality of graphical representation. Is that acceptable to you or should w have better by now?

[BattleCookiee]

So you agree that ES' gameplay has barely been changed in 10 years and STILL think NWN2's gameplay improvement is worse than here...

 

[Shadowstrider]

Uh... the gameplay in Arena is not even comparable to Morrowind, let alone Oblivion.

 

Just because you're in first person and use WASD to move? *scratches head.* Sometimes, I swear, you people don't think/read what you write before hitting reply.

[Judge Hades]

The issue here is not if it is better or worse but if it is acceptable or not acceptable. Such as both Oblivion (for the PC) and Neverwinter Nights 2 will have very powerful tool system for making Mods. This is a great incentive to get these games which adds a great amount of replayability, but there are other games that do not have an easy to use tools system such as Doom 3, FEAR (if memory serves), and Half Life 2. Hell, I have heard that Bioware's next PC game Dragon Age, won't have a fully developed tools system such as NWN 2 and Oblivion. With the trend heading towards shorter games is that acceptable for the audience Bioware has buuilt up over the years?

 

Lets not keep this just about Oblivion versus NWN 2 here.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Tool systems are just another reason why the PC industry is in decline.

 

Shorter than Jade Empire ?

 

Different games, different technological demands. Z axis isnt as big a deal in a first person game with one character as it is in a third person game with several characters.

 

Oblivion does stuff NwN dosnt and vice versa. Some will prefer one over the other. Most will embrace both to a certain degree.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

The only thing I've come across with radically different gameplay is the DS and thats only because the hardware makes it possible.

[SteveThaiBinh]

I agree about full camera control. If the technology permits the player to have complete freedom, the designer shouldn't intervene to restrict that freedom. For key moments, sure, to create a cinematic feel, but not otherwise. In a similar vein, I hear that GalCiv2 has a completely user-definable interface, and there will soon be lots of user-made ones available to try; much better than the designer imposing one on the gamer. We are supposed to be living in an age of customisation and consumer choice, after all. The absense of toolsets can't really be called 'unacceptable' if the game sells anyway, but it's certainly contrary to the spirit of the age.

 

It's not yet unacceptable to produce a partial voice game, but in a year or two it may well be - we're certainly headed that way. Adventure games now typically have full voiceover, and if NWN2 doesn't it will probably be one of the last RPGs not to. If you accept the 'unwashed masses' view of gamers so eloquently expressed by the fellow from RPGCodex yesterday, the trend must be in this direction and away from text.

 

My principle concern is with dull, generic stories, but that won't change until more original writers are attracted to the gaming industry.

[kirottu]

Uh, I don

[BattleCookiee]

Uh... the gameplay in Arena is not even comparable to Morrowind, let alone Oblivion.

 

Yes. Give the great additions to gameplay then (between Arena-MW). Or is "soil errosion" such a magnificant gameplay-improving tool? "

There isn't alot of things that make me go saying that MW is a huge improvement upon Arena/Daggerfall (except perhaps less bugs)

 

The issue here is not if it is better or worse but if it is acceptable or not acceptable.  Such as both Oblivion (for the PC) and Neverwinter Nights 2 will have very powerful tool system for making Mods.  This is a great incentive to get these games which adds a great amount of replayability, but there are other games that do not have an easy to use tools system such as Doom 3, FEAR (if memory serves), and Half Life 2.  Hell, I have heard that Bioware's next PC game Dragon Age, won't have a fully developed tools system such as NWN 2 and Oblivion.  With the trend heading towards shorter games is that acceptable for the audience Bioware has buuilt up over the years?

 

Half-Liefe2?

And tool-sets might be an mighty cool addition to modders, but as general player I rather play a good game than a flawed one I have to fix/change up myself. I rather spend 4 hours advanching in a good plot than to make that realistic looking map...

 

Tool systems are just another reason why the PC industry is in decline.

 

Eh...

I thought it was because releasing bug-less games for PC was impossible and the inenevitable release of the patches would make the game worse each patch because every patch fixes over a dozen gamestopping bugs but adds in alot more "

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I don

[kirottu]

I don

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Tool systems are just another reason why the PC industry is in decline.

 

Eh...

I thought it was because releasing bug-less games for PC was impossible and the inenevitable release of the patches would make the game worse each patch because every patch fixes over a dozen gamestopping bugs but adds in alot more "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's why it says another reason. Although the reasons you give are valid.

 

Look at this way if your playing a game your not buying other games. When I was playing EQ I bought very few other games. Same would be true if I was downloading free content. It's great for the gamer since they only paid the

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Well, for me those aren

[BattleCookiee]

If people expect toolsets, then that puts most games out of the picture since making an accessable toolset is a huge task.

 

Well, since most games in the future will use UE3 and that one has a very managable toolset included with it... no problem at all

[Judge Hades]

Half-Liefe2? 

 

I have been trying to broaden my horizons on the games I play and I have had some success.

 

Besides, if anything that Werewolf incident in Bloodlines showed me I need to increase my twitch factor skills just a bit.

Edited March 10, 2006 by Judge Hades

[mkreku]

Being able to jump (and fall and climb and explore the environments freely and all that comes with jumping) is definitely a gameplay feature for me. I went from reviewing World of Warcraft to reviewing Guild Wars, and even if World of Warcraft is very restricted (jumping really has no function in that game) I just couldn't get into Guild Wars at all because I wasn't able to jump! It kills so much for me, seeing my character get stuck against a ledge that in real life would be comparable to a door step. Stuff like that immediately makes me hostile towards the entire game.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I have been trying to broaden my horizons on the games I play and I have had some success. 

 

Besides, if anything that Werewolf incident in Bloodlines showed me I need to increase my twitch factor skills just a bit. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Whats the story with the werewolf ?

[mkreku]

A legendary tale of frustration, bad twitch skills.. and a werewolf!!