Feargus video interview

[BattleCookiee]

 

I just love the fact that you make fun at me for not liking your sarcasm and then immediately proceed to slam me for making a far less ironic comment... 

 

Tell you what, if Feargus tells me he was offended, then I'll accept that I went too far and apologize to him.

 

But somehow I think he has a better sense of humor than you do. You really should run down to the shop and get your sense of humor replaced - it is in sore need. And you better do it before criticising others for making ironic comments while making sarcastic comments yourself and thinking that's okay gets you into real trouble. Then again, I guess your position is twice as good as a straight standard...  "

 

Last I checked " " was also an ironic smiley... just like " " "...

"my position"... I love that, even if I have no idea what for position you talk about...

 

I stand corrected - making deals with devils and demons is totally unheard of, of course...  "

 

Just as with archnemessis as Malak " (please notify: Ironic Statement!)

 

That's a circular argument and you know it, since Kreia won't let you make another choice- you already made your DS/LS choice at that point in the game.

 

Your argument here is deliberately sophistry as far as I can tell.

 

So, you just said that Kreia leaves you no choice. Hmmm... There is choice; you just cannot choose it then... :D

 

Did the reasons for their actions make sense? Yup.

 

No.

 

And there are differences in the outcome.

 

The masters don't turn on my on Dantooine if I'm truly DS, since I've already killed them all

 

Wouldn't that make it a difference in the INput instead of a difference in the OUTput?

 

Atris may want to kill me, but she's fallen to the dark side. I can *choose* whether to kill her or not (same thing for Mira fighting Hanharr on Malachor V btw)

 

I can choose to run past a Diablo enemy and leave him alive " (Irony Warning!)

 

Malachor V is destroyed or continues to exist depending on my choice. But then I guess the death of an entire planet doesn't count as a genuine choice... 

 

True... that is a choice. But not a choice made at any specific point in the game... It isn't like "Bastila's Unknown world meet" where you can suddenly change the ending (or so you say by saying that all after Kreia is already fixed... haven't completed the game myself so many times as to know if that's true)...

Edited February 26, 2006 by BattleCookiee

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

It's not a matter of who dicates the background as much as whether that background has any significance in the game at all. I dare say people can ignore the Diablo class descriptions without losing any context in the game.

 

In KotOR I may not know much about the characters when I begin, but I'm interested. I found it really annoying that I knew so little about the Exile's past, when I began K2 - made it very difficult to understand the character.

 

In BG, my character grew up in Candlekeep, and Imoen is an old friend.

 

In Diablo I don't know and it doesn't even matter.

 

You never click any answers in Diablo, and even if you did, they wouldn't matter in the plot. You can define your character background as you want, yes, but it hardly matters. It has no significance to the game at all.

 

But what does it matter if that springboard doesn't lead you anywhere? You might just as well not bother in the first place.

 

Except in a PnP game, the depth I give the character will have significance, since it will define how I play the character, what his choices will be, what he will say to people, etc. Over time the GM will also make this significant, since he will know how my character is likely to react and present challenges on that basis.

 

In Diablo, the imagined background is just pure make believe, because it'll never matter...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well your background in KOTOR has no significance at all. Not the whole Revan thing. That is not your background. That is Biowares background. Your background is whatever you created prior to that and is ultimately meaningless since it's replaced with what Bioware wrote.

 

Imoen and you growing up in Candlekeep is again Biowares background. It's what you make of those elements that makes a character yours. Just like what you incorporate from the Diablo character descriptions makes the character yours (which is much the same as you get if you read the PnP section of the FR book anway).

 

How is clicking answers in the slightest bit relevent ?

 

Just like In KOTOR where your background is meaningless, well theres a revelation.

 

Roleplaying is pure make believe anyway ,it's just make belive with rules.

Edited February 26, 2006 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[Darque]

WTF? Three pages new since I last saw this?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I know

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Did the reasons for their actions make sense? Yup.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You should ask yourself the same question about Diablo.

[Sargallath Abraxium]

You should ask yourself the same question about Diablo.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

...there's only one question ya has ta ask yerself in relation ta DIA-blows:

 

 

Why in Christ Sake's did I buy this PoS?

 

 

...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

Edited February 26, 2006 by Sargallath Abraxium

[Jediphile]

Well your background in KOTOR has no significance at all. Not the whole Revan thing. That is not your background. That is Biowares background. Your background is whatever you created prior to that and is ultimately meaningless since it's replaced with what Bioware wrote.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I disagree. The persona I created at the beginning of the game has charateristics in my perception, and that eventually helps me to decide whether Revan should be redeemed or reclaim his position as dark lord.

 

Imoen and you growing up in Candlekeep is again Biowares background. It's what you make of those elements that makes a character yours.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

True. But how I perceive it is what decides whether I want Imoen with me or decide to ditch or even kill her along the way.

 

Just like what you incorporate from the Diablo character descriptions makes the character yours (which is much the same as you get if you read the PnP section of the FR book anway).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Except here it makes no difference. There is nothing for my perception of things to affect in any way that makes any difference. I may incorporate whatever I want - it makes no difference anywhere in the game.

 

How is clicking answers in the slightest bit relevent ?

 

Just like In KOTOR where your background is meaningless, well theres a revelation.

 

Roleplaying is pure make believe anyway ,it's just make belive with rules.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But there is still a difference between whether the character's have goals and ambitions, whether they have depth as characters or have feelings. I don't get that in Diablo - my character is just a blank vehicle that I use to kill the baddies with and nothing more. The sorceress might as well be a rocket launcher or the barbarian a meatgrinder - they have all the personality of those...

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I disagree. The persona I created at the beginning of the game has charateristics in my perception, and that eventually helps me to decide whether Revan should be redeemed or reclaim his position as dark lord.

 

True. But how I perceive it is what decides whether I want Imoen with me or decide to ditch or even kill her along the way.

 

Except here it makes no difference. There is nothing for my perception of things to affect in any way that makes any difference. I may incorporate whatever I want - it makes no difference anywhere in the game.

 

But there is still a difference between whether the character's have goals and ambitions, whether they have depth as characters or have feelings. I don't get that in Diablo - my character is just a blank vehicle that I use to kill the baddies with and nothing more. The sorceress might as well be a rocket launcher or the barbarian a meatgrinder - they have all the personality of those...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Just as your characters personality in Diablo should emerge over the course of the game. More difficult in a game like Diablo, but still quite possible. While you may see Diablo as endles clicking. Thats not how a character would see it.

 

Your taking credit for Biowares persona , thats not your creation. One of the reasons I rather loathe games with amnesiacs is right from the start you know that it's not your character at all.

 

If you can't do it you can't do it. Although this is the first time I've heard that from a PnP player. It's quite a common thing to hear from someone who has never played PnP.

Edited February 26, 2006 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[Jediphile]

Did the reasons for their actions make sense? Yup.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You should ask yourself the same question about Diablo.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's just it - there is no choice, no motives behind the actions that are taken. At least not in a way that I can affect or consider to have depth. Diablo and his ilk want to enslave manking, and I have to help Tyrial stopping them. I don't know why Tyrial does it, don't know why Diablo and the others do (though I can guess - wanting power is pretty easy to grasp), and nobody is asking me what I want to do. Opinions don't matter and make no difference.

[Sargallath Abraxium]

If you can't do it you can't do it. Although this is the first time I've heard that from a PnP player. It's quite a common thing to hear from someone who has never played PnP.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

...cheap shot, SP...any character must 'ave at least one or two redeemin' qualities that make RPin' possible, an' DIA-blows dunna give ya anythin' fer any o' the characters 'cept "click, click, click"...yer character(s) in DIA-blows jus' be a basic means ta an end wit' no personality whatsoe'er...what's next, Mario the Great RPG...c'mon... <_<

 

 

...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

That's just it - there is no choice, no motives behind the actions that are taken. At least not in a way that I can affect or consider to have depth. Diablo and his ilk want to enslave manking, and I have to help Tyrial stopping them. I don't know why Tyrial does it, don't know why Diablo and the others do (though I can guess - wanting power is pretty easy to grasp), and nobody is asking me what I want to do. Opinions don't matter and make no difference.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think you will find there are. Where as KOTOR may at least pretend to offer you a way to change their minds though. Which is illusionary most of the time. In Diablo the badguys are on a level that is beyond you. Fighting a war that is beyond human comprehension.

 

They dont make deals, they just want you dead , or in the case of lesser creatures. You are food.

 

It's at that point where your characters feelings and actions take over from the more obvious click a response.

 

That feeling of powerlessness encompasses the Diablo world quite nicely.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

...cheap shot, SP...any character must 'ave at least one or two redeemin' qualities that make RPin' possible, an' DIA-blows dunna give ya anythin' fer any o' the characters 'cept "click, click, click"...yer character(s) in DIA-blows jus' be a basic means ta an end wit' no personality whatsoe'er...what's next, Mario the Great RPG...c'mon... <_<

 

 

...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Don't think so. It is a position that I often here from people who don't do PnP and hence are not used to imagining up characters.

 

Mario is Mario he's a pregen character. Diablo characters only have classes they don't have pregenerated identities.

 

Mario RPG http://www.gamespot.com/gamecube/rpg/paper...ex.html?q=mario

 

Scored 92% for the link shy.

Edited February 26, 2006 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[Sargallath Abraxium]

...cheap shot, SP...any character must 'ave at least one or two redeemin' qualities that make RPin' possible, an' DIA-blows dunna give ya anythin' fer any o' the characters 'cept "click, click, click"...yer character(s) in DIA-blows jus' be a basic means ta an end wit' no personality whatsoe'er...what's next, Mario the Great RPG...c'mon... <_<

 

 

...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Don't think so. It is a position that I often here from people who don't do PnP and hence are not used to imagining up characters.

 

Mario is Mario he's a pregen character. Diablo characters only have classes they don't have pregenerated identities.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

...bullshyte...an' jus' ta clear things up, I's been PnPin' since the early 80's, bub, so that li'l "you don't play PnP" gem jus' dunna fly...in DIA-blows, yer jus' a killin' machine, nuthin' more...much like ya is in Mario games...no character, no personality, jus' a "click, click, click" Death Machine...DIA-blows may 'ave one or two RPG-like qualities, but an RPG it most certainly ain't...unless ya wanna group 90+% o' all games inta yer wondrous li'l definition o' an RPG... <_<

 

 

...an' this from a PnPer...ya should be ashamed...or at least yer PnP group DM should be... "

 

 

...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

...bullshyte...an' jus' ta clear things up, I's been PnPin' since the early 80's, bub, so that li'l "you don't play PnP" gem jus' dunna fly...in DIA-blows, yer jus' a killin' machine, nuthin' more...much like ya is in Mario games...no character, no personality, jus' a "click, click, click" Death Machine...DIA-blows may 'ave one or two RPG-like qualities, but an RPG it most certainly ain't...unless ya wanna group 90+% o' all games inta yer wondrous li'l definition o' an RPG... <_<

 

 

...an' this from a PnPer...ya should be ashamed...or at least yer PnP group DM should be... "

 

 

...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not everything in my characters background will be used by the DM. Sometimes none of the characters background will be particularly relevent to the campaign at the time (especially true of characters who have traveled , and or are "odd").

 

Mario has a personality. If you think he dosnt, then you clearly don't have any idea how Iconic Mario is. It's that personality that makes Mario and Icon. If you play a Mario game, you don't need to create a personality since there is already one there.

Unless you had Mario the amnesiac of course .

 

A Diablo character has whatever personality you want to give them. I always give my characters a reason to fight ,whatever it may be. Then it's not just click ,click, click, it's click , click , click with a purpose.

 

By the accepted defintions it's an RPG.. Which is good enough for me and more important a common point of reference.

 

Well PnP is all about creating a character from nothing. Which should make it good practice for creating a character in any game.

 

 

Heres my personal definition.

 

An RPG must have.

 

1. A story

2. Character growth

3. A character which modifies the players ability to accomplish tasks.

4. A method of conflict resolution

 

That one works pretty well for me, although the exact elements will vary with the game.

Edited February 27, 2006 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[Sargallath Abraxium]

...bullshyte...an' jus' ta clear things up, I's been PnPin' since the early 80's, bub, so that li'l "you don't play PnP" gem jus' dunna fly...in DIA-blows, yer jus' a killin' machine, nuthin' more...much like ya is in Mario games...no character, no personality, jus' a "click, click, click" Death Machine...DIA-blows may 'ave one or two RPG-like qualities, but an RPG it most certainly ain't...unless ya wanna group 90+% o' all games inta yer wondrous li'l definition o' an RPG... <_<

 

 

...an' this from a PnPer...ya should be ashamed...or at least yer PnP group DM should be... "

 

 

...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not everything in my characters background will be used by the DM. Sometimes none of the characters background will be particularly relevent to the campaign at the time (especially true of characters who have traveled , and or are "odd").

 

Mario has a personality. If you think he dosnt, then you clearly don't have any idea. It's that personality that makes Mario and Icon. If you play a Mario game, you don't need to create a personality since there is already one there.

Unless you had Mario the amnesiac of course .

 

A Diablo character has whatever personality you want to give them. I always give my characters a reason to fight ,whatever it may be. Then it's not just click ,click, click, it's click , click , click with a purpose.

 

By the accepted defintions it's an RPG.. Which is good enough for me and more important a common point of reference.

 

Well PnP is all about creating a character from nothing. Which should make it good practice for creating a character in any game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

...nice cop-out answer...in other words, anything ya can think o' a reason ta play counts as an RPG???...ne'ermind, this is comin' from the guy who panned PS:T's story...next...

 

 

...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

...nice cop-out answer...in other words, anything ya can think o' a reason ta play counts as an RPG???...ne'ermind, this is comin' from the guy who panned PS:T's story...next...

 

 

...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not your fault because I edited it in. But my personal definition is up there now.

 

I'd further modify that in the case of a supposedely choice driven RPG that the character has to be the players creation and not the designers.

Edited February 27, 2006 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[Jediphile]

Where as KOTOR may at least pretend to offer you a way to change their minds though. Which is illusionary most of the time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, you can argue that KotOR is just playing at illusionary choice a lot of the time, but you do get to make a lot of DS/LS choices along the way, and those do count toward the character you end up with. Sure, you can still take the DS ending even if you have LS mastery in the temple, but it'll be inconsistent, and the game will punish you for it, since you likely have all the wrong force powers at that point.

 

In Diablo the badguys are on a level that is beyond you. Fighting a war that is beyond human comprehension.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Somehow "fighting a war beyond human comprehension" doesn't seem right to me. I'm a human (even in Diablo), and I'm still fighting that war and killing Diablo, his brothers, and all their minions. Doesn't seem to be beyond my comprehension after all. So that comment seems to fall short somehow, especially if you've played as much Cthulhu as I have - now *there* is a war beyond human comprehension...

 

They dont make deals, they just want you dead , or in the case of lesser creatures. You are food.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, I still killed the lot of them. Who does that make food? Maybe after I slaughtered Andariel and Duriel, Diablo should have thought that I might have been a better ally than enemy. Or at least after I killed Mephisto...

 

It's at that point where your characters feelings and actions take over from the more obvious click a response.

 

That feeling of powerlessness encompasses the Diablo world quite nicely.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What feelings? There are none in Diablo that I can see... I might presume stuff, but that's all in just in my head, and never gets to have influence on the game.

[Meshugger]

Hmmm, Diablo.

[Jediphile]

Your taking credit for Biowares persona , thats not your creation. One of the reasons I rather loathe games with amnesiacs is right from the start you know that it's not your character at all.

 

If you can't do it you can't do it. Although this is the first time I've heard that from a PnP player. It's quite a common thing to hear from someone who has never played PnP.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You seem to argue from the idea that a genuine character is always created from scratch by the player. That is not the case. I may not have "created" Revan as such, since his background is done by Bioware, but I'm still the one playing him, and I'm still the one building his skills. I also decided his gender (or her gender...), his class, etc.

 

But even if I was handed a completely pre-fabricated character, that does not mean that I'm not playing an RPG. It's not a question of how much influence I had during character creation (though I prefer to have that), but rather how much influence and control I have over the character during the actual game.

 

If I play Vampire, then I'm a vampire serving the lord that sired me. I have no choice in that matter. But the character is still mine, and I still develop him or her.

 

If I play Exalted, then I'm (in the standard game) a Solar with fantastic powes serving the unconquered sun, whether I want to or not. But I still create the character and develop him. And I will be hunted by the dragon-blooded for being considered anathema... It's still role-playing, though.

 

Though I prefer to play my characters from scratch with complete control over creation, perspectives, and powers, I have still played and enjoyed completely pregenerated characters at conventions. That didn't mean I wasn't playing an RPG.

 

The difference is that once I take control of the character, the perceptions and choices are made by me as the player. I get to decide what the character is going to do. Lots (in fact, all) of CRPGs may force me along the way, but I do get some choice along the way in most of them. I don't in Diablo - it is as linear as a racing game. Heck, I can't even choose to drive the wrong way...

[Diamond]

What feelings? There are none in Diablo that I can see... I might presume stuff, but that's all in just in my head, and never gets to have influence on the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I still have to remind you about Icewind Dale, where your party is similar to a character in Diablo: they are totally blank. Somehow it is a fact that Icewind Dale is an RPG.

Edited February 27, 2006 by Diamond

[Darque]

What feelings? There are none in Diablo that I can see... I might presume stuff, but that's all in just in my head, and never gets to have influence on the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I still have to remind you about Icewind Dale, where your party is similar to a character in Diablo: they are totally blank. Somehow it is a fact that Icewind Dale is an RPG.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Heck, the characters in Diablo 2 show more feeling than those in IWD.

 

D2 FTW

[Sargallath Abraxium]

What feelings? There are none in Diablo that I can see... I might presume stuff, but that's all in just in my head, and never gets to have influence on the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I still have to remind you about Icewind Dale, where your party is similar to a character in Diablo: they are totally blank. Somehow it is a fact that Icewind Dale is an RPG.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

 

...wrong...IWD's characters are not totally blank; there are many instances in IWD where one's character's personality, alignment, etc. play a prominant role in discerning various game elements, not to mention a few class, race, an' gender specific situations...or e'en the "replay" situation wit' the blind dwarf smithy in HoW (where he remakes the blade ya only gits at the end o' the IWD)...all show personality an' other prominant RPG elements, which is why a "dungeon crawl" like IWD be still an RPG an DIA-blows be certainly not...'nuff said... :D

 

 

...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

[Cantousent]

When I do it, it's not called trolling.

 

Anyhow, I enjoy reading a good RPG debate.

 

The biggest problem is coming to a definition upon which we can agree. I don't see that happening any time soon. Some of you want to create a narrow definition of RPGs, often with inherent inconsistencies, to exclude the games you deem unfit. *shrug* Have fun. It's the sort of mental auto-eroticism that keeps message boards going.

[alanschu]

I'm not sure how we can say we are the ones "in the right," when it's a minority of gamers that seem intent on making sure Diablo is referred to as an RPG.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What the hell are you talking about, Alan? The minority of players refuse to call Diablo an RPG? First of all, that's a hard fact to prove, but I'd claim the other way around. Most players, except for the hard-core RPG elite, seem to consider Diablo an RPG. Personally, I consider it an RPG. It's not an RPG in the way that some uber-leet, pretentious RPGers think of them, but it sure as hell has the trappings as far as I can tell. I get a kick out of your take on the industry most of the time, but you're plain offtrack on this one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

It was a typo. Minority of gamers seem intent on making sure Diablo is NOT referred to as an RPG.

[6 Foot Invisible Rabbit]

Diablo is a CRPG. It is the worst and the stupidest CRPG ever made but it is a CRPG.

[alanschu]

I've played worse.