Feargus video interview

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I like Darques definition.

[Jediphile]

Feargus. 

 

I know no one is saying bad things about one of my favorites now? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, of course. Loving Feargus is required by law. You do love Feargus, don't you, citizen? :darque:

[Cantousent]

Why do you take it upon yourself to provide the definition for an RPG, Jedi? It's such a burden, deciding what can and can't be an RPG. Of course, you're wrong. Diablo 2 is a role-playing game. It's just not the sort of role-playing game you like.

 

Aside from that, what the hell was this rant about classes and levels and whatnot? Get a grip, man. No need to spend all your time in left field.

[thepixiesrock]

Aww shoot. Eldar just totally called you gay man. Whats your rebuttle?

[Jediphile]

Why do you take it upon yourself to provide the definition for an RPG, Jedi?  It's such a burden, deciding what can and can't be an RPG.  Of course, you're wrong.  Diablo 2 is a role-playing game.  It's just not the sort of role-playing game you like.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

RPG means you must role-play, as in putting yourself in the role of another (fictional) character and then make decisions on the basis of that character's perceptions and opinions. What decisions or choices do you make in Diablo? Whether to kill the skeletons with a sword or a fireball? Whether to spend the next skill point on fanaticism or zeal, if you're a paladin? Not much RPG in there for me...

 

Diablo is a hack'n slash and a dungeon crawl, and it's good at being that. But it's nothing more than that.

 

As long as it doesn't claim to be more, I don't have a problem.

 

But I don't agree that It's an RPG. Period.

 

Aside from that, what the hell was this rant about classes and levels and whatnot?  Get a grip, man.  No need to spend all your time in left field.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Levels and classes do not an RPG make. You can have them in an RPG, but you don't have to, and so their inclusion do not mean that you're playing an RPG.

 

Dragon Wars (very, very ancient game) had levels, but no classes. Still worked great. Same with the Fallout games, btw.

 

Call of Cthulhu (pre d20-crap) had neither levels nor classes (prefession, yes, but they hardly matter at all and certainly weren't classes). Still worked great. One of the best PnP RPGs I know.

 

GURPS has no classes or levels at all (unless you count skill levels). Still a beautiful game design that could easily make for great CRPGs.

[thepixiesrock]

Lame comeback. Call him a booger-eater!

[Diamond]

But I don't agree that It's an RPG. Period.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Feargus said it is an RPG. Period.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

RPG means you must role-play, as in putting yourself in the role of another (fictional) character and then make decisions on the basis of that character's perceptions and opinions. What decisions or choices do you make in Diablo? Whether to kill the skeletons with a sword or a fireball? Whether to spend the next skill point on fanaticism or zeal, if you're a paladin? Not much RPG in there for me...

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Those choices are very important though. They impact on how the rest of the game plays out. Now lets just say your not a quitter and you will stick with a character no matter what. Those things that you so glibly call unimportant will have a huge impact on your characters progress in the game. Even more so than most RPG dialogue choices would have (which are for the most part very trivial).

[Jediphile]

But I don't agree that It's an RPG. Period.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Feargus said it is an RPG. Period.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, he's just a big meanie who didn't want the magic 8-ball in FO2...

 

'nuff said

[Jediphile]

RPG means you must role-play, as in putting yourself in the role of another (fictional) character and then make decisions on the basis of that character's perceptions and opinions. What decisions or choices do you make in Diablo? Whether to kill the skeletons with a sword or a fireball? Whether to spend the next skill point on fanaticism or zeal, if you're a paladin? Not much RPG in there for me...

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Those choices are very important though. They impact on how the rest of the game plays out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Only in the sense of how you kill the baddies... Whatever skills you focus on, you have to face the same enemies with the same powers using the same tactics and in the same places... The only difference remains how you perform euthanasia on them...

 

Now lets just say your not a quitter and you will stick with a character no matter what. Those things that you so glibly call unimportant will have a huge impact on your characters progress in the game. Even more so than most RPG dialogue choices would have (which are for the most part very trivial).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And you call that a role-playing experience?

 

If so, then I must politely disagree...

[Jediphile]

Lame comeback.  Call him a booger-eater!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'd rather call him a Diablo2-is-an-RPG-apologist - far worse in my book

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Only in the sense of how you kill the baddies... Whatever skills you focus on, you have to face the same enemies with the same powers using the same tactics and in the same places... The only difference remains how you perform euthanasia on them...

 

And you call that a role-playing experience?

 

If so, then I must politely disagree...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thats actually not true. There is a degree of randomness, not only in which creatures can appear, but also in what powers they may have. What may be a walkover encounter in one game will become really nasty if a particular creature draws a certain powerset.

 

Plus there is randomness in what items you come across. So giving your barbarian master level in swords, dosnt do you a great deal of good if you cant find one.

 

It is by the accepted definition which is why it's catagorised as one nearly everywhere you look.

 

Plus of course if your taking it as a whole, then it has the same potential for roleplaying as any online game does when you add other people.

[BattleCookiee]

RPG means you must role-play, as in putting yourself in the role of another (fictional) character and then make decisions on the basis of that character's perceptions and opinions.

 

Lolz

Doom = RPG

Painkiller = RPG

Serious Sam = RPG

Half-Life = RPG

Monkey Island = RPG

Grim Fandango = RPG

Gabriel Knight = RPG

GTA San Andreas = RPG

GTA Vice City = RPG

Age of Empires = RPG

Civilization = RPG

Republic = RPG

The Sims = RPG

Boiling Point = RPG

Empire at War = RPG

Black & White = RPG

Populous = RPG

 

Etc. etc. etc.

Edited February 26, 2006 by BattleCookiee

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

RPG means you must role-play, as in putting yourself in the role of another (fictional) character and then make decisions on the basis of that character's perceptions and opinions.

 

Lolz

Doom = RPG

Painkiller = RPG

Serious Sam = RPG

Half-Life = RPG

Monkey Island = RPG

Grim Fandango = RPG

Gabriel Knight = RPG

GTA San Andreas = RPG

GTA Vice City = RPG

Age of Empires = RPG

 

Etc. etc. etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I always add which also has a character who's abilities will influence a players chance of success.

 

Even the best Diablo player in the world couldnt kill Diablo with the character that emerges from character generation (exploits and cheats aside). Where as if you teleported the Doom Marine to the end boss you could kill it as long as you had the skill.

 

Not too sure about AoE though. Unless your some sort of god, that characters perceptions are too unrealistic to qualify.

Edited February 26, 2006 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[BattleCookiee]

Not too sure about AoE though. Unless your some sort of god, that characters perceptions are too unrealistic to qualify.

 

William Wallace, Genghis Khan, Jean d'Arc etc. "

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

William Wallace, Genghis Khan, Jean d'Arc etc.  "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But they don't have character like perceptions,more godlike.Were as the other games do, you pretty much see and hear what your character does.

[Jediphile]

RPG means you must role-play, as in putting yourself in the role of another (fictional) character and then make decisions on the basis of that character's perceptions and opinions.

 

Lolz

Doom = RPG

Painkiller = RPG

Serious Sam = RPG

Half-Life = RPG

Monkey Island = RPG

Grim Fandango = RPG

Gabriel Knight = RPG

GTA San Andreas = RPG

GTA Vice City = RPG

Age of Empires = RPG

Civilization = RPG

Republic = RPG

The Sims = RPG

Boiling Point = RPG

Empire at War = RPG

Black & White = RPG

Populous = RPG

 

Etc. etc. etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nope. Complete lack of true choice in all those. They all have one fixed way in which things must be done and no other and no alternatives.

 

If Diablo 2 was an RPG, then the definition would include all of the above. I don't think so, and that's why I also don't think Diablo 2 is an RPG.

[BattleCookiee]

But they don't have character like perceptions,more godlike.Were as the other games do, you pretty much see and hear what your character does.

 

Hey. It is not my definition of RPG's!

[Jediphile]

Only in the sense of how you kill the baddies... Whatever skills you focus on, you have to face the same enemies with the same powers using the same tactics and in the same places... The only difference remains how you perform euthanasia on them...

 

And you call that a role-playing experience?

 

If so, then I must politely disagree...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thats actually not true. There is a degree of randomness, not only in which creatures can appear, but also in what powers they may have. What may be a walkover encounter in one game will become really nasty if a particular creature draws a certain powerset.

 

Plus there is randomness in what items you come across. So giving your barbarian master level in swords, dosnt do you a great deal of good if you cant find one.

 

It is by the accepted definition which is why it's catagorised as one nearly everywhere you look.

 

Plus of course if your taking it as a whole, then it has the same potential for roleplaying as any online game does when you add other people.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Randomness does not equal choice. Therefore, not an RPG.

[BattleCookiee]

Nope. Complete lack of true choice in all those. They all have one fixed way in which things must be done and no other and no alternatives.

 

If Diablo 2 was an RPG, then the definition would include all of the above. I don't think so, and that's why I also don't think Diablo 2 is an RPG.

 

Guess you never played some of them then to make such false statements

 

Would include all of the above? What above? You mean freedom? Now where is the freedom in alot of other RPG's? Take Kotor for example. Always seeking the 4 maps. Always go to the SF. Same with Kotor2; always seek the 4 masters then follow the

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Randomness does not equal choice. Therefore, not an RPG.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Never said it did. But it does make the choices that much less obvious.

 

For the record. If an FPS with no statistical elements has multiple endings does that make it an RPG ?

Edited February 26, 2006 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[Jediphile]

Nope. Complete lack of true choice in all those. They all have one fixed way in which things must be done and no other and no alternatives.

 

If Diablo 2 was an RPG, then the definition would include all of the above. I don't think so, and that's why I also don't think Diablo 2 is an RPG.

 

Guess you never played some of them then to make such false statements

 

Would include all of the above? What above? You mean freedom? Now where is the freedom in alot of other RPG's? Take Kotor for example. Always seeking the 4 maps. Always go to the SF. Same with Kotor2; always seek the 4 masters then follow the

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Looking only at the overall plot to fit your definition... 

 

I guess we should just ignore the matter of all those little quests where you can take LS or DS choices along the way, which all contribute to which outcome you're likely to take in the end... I mean, if we remembered those, then you wouldn't be proved absolutely and totally correct, and so naturally we must ignore them... 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But thats exactly what you are doing with Diablo II. You ignoring any roleplaying elements that dont suit your definition.

[BattleCookiee]

Looking only at the overall plot to fit your definition... 

 

MY definition?

 

I guess we should just ignore the matter of all those little quests where you can take LS or DS choices along the way, which all contribute to which outcome you're likely to take in the end... I mean, if we remembered those, then you wouldn't be proved absolutely and totally correct, and so naturally we must ignore them... 

 

Wait. Diablo 2 has sub-quests. You can or cannot complete them! Choice! RPG!

[Jediphile]

Randomness does not equal choice. Therefore, not an RPG.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Never said it did. But it does make the choices that much less obvious.

 

For the record. If an FPS with no statistical elements has multiple endings does that make it an RPG ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't know. Does it have alternate outcomes of conflicts along the way, like leaving Onderon in the hands of either the queen or general Vaklu or either killing or saving the giant firaxan shark on Manaan?

 

But then it's an academic question, since you ask it in a hypothetical manner...