KotoR 3: Ideas and Suggestions

[Nick_i_am]

People complained about the turret scenes in KotoR being too hard. That should tell you all you need to know about a number of RPG players.

 

Just look at Hades' warewolf.

 

It would probably be a better idea not to only save stuff like that for action games (or whatever), but leave it to be made by people who are actually good at making said games.

 

Obs might be a great company, but that doesn't mean I would trust them to make a great Shooter any more than I would trust Valve to make a great RPG.

[astr0creep]

People complained about the turret scenes in KotoR being too hard. That should tell you all you need to know about a number of RPG players.

 

Just look at Hades' warewolf.

 

It would probably be a better idea not to only save stuff like that for action games (or whatever), but leave it to be made by people who are actually good at making said games.

 

Obs might be a great company, but that doesn't mean I would trust them to make a great Shooter any more than I would trust Valve to make a great RPG.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

They could give the player the choice of using the turrets like in K2, the choice to let some pilot fly the EH or do it yourself and same thing with other action sequences that could be too much for RPGers.

 

I found the turret hard until I reversed the axis in the options.

[Jediphile]

People complained about the turret scenes in KotoR being too hard. That should tell you all you need to know about a number of RPG players.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The turret bit in K1 was hard?!?

 

I've played that bit a gazillion times, and I've never failed it, not once! No, it wasn't hard - it was just annoying having to play it again and again at random as you travelled the galaxy. People who think that's hard should take some X-wing/Tie-fighter practice - those were games where combat became, especially using the turrets in X-Wing Allliance.

[Nick_i_am]

'Hey guys, lets spend all this money on something that doesn't actually add much to the game for the majority of our fans'

 

If I wanted the next SW RPG I would play KotoR3. If I wanted a SW space game i'd dig out my copy of X-wing alliance.

 

The idea of 'cross-genre' isn't a bad one in itself, but people end to underesstimate how tricky it can be (just look at any game that's tried lololol). Example, Shadows of the Empire, made by guys who actually knew what they were doing in that department had a 'turret minigame' that blew that of KotoR out of the water. So basically I would rather the time and money that were spent (for example) on the swoop races in KotoR2 (which always bugged out for me anyway) be spent on fixing and adding to actually important areas of the game.

 

Such things WOULD be cool, and in a perfect world, would be fesable, practical and fun. But in the real world, they pretty much always fall short on two or more of those.

 

No, it wasn't hard

 

People complained, that says enough about a number of the people who would play a game like this.

Edited February 1, 2006 by Nick_i_am

[Jorian Drake]

'Hey guys, lets spend all this money on something that doesn't actually add much to the game for the majority of our fans'

 

If I wanted the next SW RPG I would play KotoR3. If I wanted a SW space game i'd dig out my copy of X-wing alliance.

 

The idea of 'cross-genre' isn't a bad one in itself, but people end to underesstimate how tricky it can be (just look at any game that's tried lololol). Example, Shadows of the Empire, made by guys who actually knew what they were doing in that department had a 'turret minigame' that blew that of KotoR out of the water. So basically I would rather the time and money that were spent (for example) on the swoop races in KotoR2 (which always bugged out for me anyway) be spent on fixing and adding to actually important areas of the game.

 

Such things WOULD be cool, and in a perfect world, would be fesable, practical and fun. But in the real world, they pretty much always fall short on two or more of those.

 

No, it wasn't hard

 

People complained, that says enough about a number of the people who would play a game like this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Freelancer is cross-genre, and no one complained

[astr0creep]

'Hey guys, lets spend all this money on something that doesn't actually add much to the game for the majority of our fans'

 

If I wanted the next SW RPG I would play KotoR3. If I wanted a SW space game i'd dig out my copy of X-wing alliance.

 

The idea of 'cross-genre' isn't a bad one in itself, but people end to underesstimate how tricky it can be (just look at any game that's tried lololol). Example, Shadows of the Empire, made by guys who actually knew what they were doing in that department had a 'turret minigame' that blew that of KotoR out of the water. So basically I would rather the time and money that were spent (for example) on the swoop races in KotoR2 (which always bugged out for me anyway) be spent on fixing and adding to actually important areas of the game.

 

Such things WOULD be cool, and in a perfect world, would be fesable, practical and fun. But in the real world, they pretty much always fall short on two or more of those.

 

No, it wasn't hard

 

People complained, that says enough about a number of the people who would play a game like this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Freelancer is cross-genre, and no one complained

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And it was a pretty good game overall. Now imagine SW:Freelancer *Drooling*

[BattleCookiee]

Freelancer is cross-genre, and no one complained 

 

Eh, No...

 

It was a space sim like Elite and such...

 

Where is the cross-genre stuff?

[Jorian Drake]

'Hey guys, lets spend all this money on something that doesn't actually add much to the game for the majority of our fans'

 

If I wanted the next SW RPG I would play KotoR3. If I wanted a SW space game i'd dig out my copy of X-wing alliance.

 

The idea of 'cross-genre' isn't a bad one in itself, but people end to underesstimate how tricky it can be (just look at any game that's tried lololol). Example, Shadows of the Empire, made by guys who actually knew what they were doing in that department had a 'turret minigame' that blew that of KotoR out of the water. So basically I would rather the time and money that were spent (for example) on the swoop races in KotoR2 (which always bugged out for me anyway) be spent on fixing and adding to actually important areas of the game.

 

Such things WOULD be cool, and in a perfect world, would be fesable, practical and fun. But in the real world, they pretty much always fall short on two or more of those.

 

No, it wasn't hard

 

People complained, that says enough about a number of the people who would play a game like this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Freelancer is cross-genre, and no one complained

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And it was a pretty good game overall. Now imagine SW:Freelancer *Drooling*

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

(w00t)

 

 

...It could be done...a mercenary...maybe a mandalorian..on his/her quest for finding his/her own fate in the galaxy... :cool:

[astr0creep]

Freelancer is cross-genre, and no one complained 

 

Eh, No...

 

It was a space sim like Elite and such...

 

Where is the cross-genre stuff?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There were some RPG and adventure elements. Upgrading your ship with money accumulated with missions accessible with xp gains through combat and mission/quest solving; exploration and loot hunting, NPC conversations, influence with factions, etc.

The only thing that bothered me about Freelancer is that I couldn't walk around as I wanted. Plus the learning curve for me was steep at one point.

[Jediphile]

Freelancer is cross-genre, and no one complained 

 

Eh, No...

 

It was a space sim like Elite and such...

 

Where is the cross-genre stuff?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ah, Elite... and Frontier

 

Boy does that bring back memories.

 

But on topic, yeah, it's not appropriate to K3. Besides, I'm fairly certain an open game like that would have several problems. First of all, an "open world" program like that is a programmer's nightmare, and apart from David Braben (who wrote Elite and Frontier), few have ever tried it. Second, in this context "open" has a tendency to come to mean "empty" - Frontier was huge, but there was nothing to do in that game - no plot - and so the experience wasn't nearly what it could have been. It was exciting to have a competing "Empire" and "Federation" right next to each other (no doubt inspired by two major sci-fi licenses...), but they were just names - nothing ever happened in either place.

 

And K3 can't be like that - it must be plot-based, and it must bring closure to the characters of Revan and the Exile.

 

Haven't tried Freelancer, though...

[Jorian Drake]

Try it ...lots of plots in it

[BattleCookiee]

There were some RPG and adventure elements. Upgrading your ship with money accumulated with missions accessible with xp gains through combat and mission/quest solving; exploration and loot hunting, NPC conversations, influence with factions, etc.

The only thing that bothered me about Freelancer is that I couldn't walk around as I wanted. Plus the learning curve for me was steep at one point.

 

Besides the XP stuff you mentioned things you find in every Space Exploration & Exploitation...

 

So that is already part of the "genre"

[DarthVala]

And K3 can't be like that - it must be plot-based, and it must bring closure to the characters of Revan and the Exile.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There are also lesser stories not closed from K1. Like what happened to Mission if you didn't kill her? Or Jolee? Juhani? Bastila? Everyone else? This could be a game that goes a couple of ways, depending on your past and present alignment.

Edited February 1, 2006 by DarthVala

[Nick_i_am]

Freelancer is cross-genre, and no one complained 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Erm, yes they did. 'This is a space sim, why can't I use my joystick?!?!'. 'Actually, this isn't a space sim, it's a space trading game'.

 

And I fail to see how it was cross-genre since it only use one control scheme+'planet interface'. That is to say, if you hate the controls, that's it for the whole game, it wasn't that once you landed on a planet you suddenly had to start playing a KotoR style RPG with munchkin power-leveling and TB combat.

 

So yeah, this example is pretty poor.

 

Also, XP in freelancer? haha, no.

Edited February 1, 2006 by Nick_i_am

[Jorian Drake]

There were some RPG and adventure elements. Upgrading your ship with money accumulated with missions accessible with xp gains through combat and mission/quest solving; exploration and loot hunting, NPC conversations, influence with factions, etc.

The only thing that bothered me about Freelancer is that I couldn't walk around as I wanted. Plus the learning curve for me was steep at one point.

 

Besides the XP stuff you mentioned things you find in every Space Exploration & Exploitation...

 

So that is already part of the "genre"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thre was a great background, and evolving story, one like in the best RPG-s, there was also your own char, but you see him only in movie-scenes and the bar of the planet/station. And this gives a real RPG feeling to it. You have also many options in-game how you would like to solve a problem, or what you would like to do next. So it IS cross-genre, and the best of both :cool:

[BattleCookiee]

Second, in this context "open" has a tendency to come to mean "empty" - Frontier was huge, but there was nothing to do in that game - no plot - and so the experience wasn't nearly what it could have been

 

Can completely agree with that. Freelancer is a good game, but after the storyline ends and the "Free Roaming" starts, it loses ALOT of it's magic...

 

 

Thre was a great background, and evolving story, one like in the best RPG-s, there was also your own char, but you see him only in movie-scenes and the bar of the planet/station. And this gives a real RPG feeling to it. You have also many options in-game how you would like to solve a problem, or what you would like to do next. So it IS cross-genre, and the best of both

 

Might I point you towards Wing Commander then, also a space game, and also had a great background story (with *gasp* FMV-sequences)... no RPG

Pre-gen char without any stats or fighting while "being him"... no RPG

And the options ingame is because it is because it is Space Exploration & Exploitation. Go play Elite... it allows ALOT more than Freelancer does, never think you go call it an RPG though, or a Cross-Genre game

Edited February 1, 2006 by Battlewookiee

[Jorian Drake]

Freelancer is cross-genre, and no one complained 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Erm, yes they did. 'This is a space sim, why can't I use my joystick?!?!'. 'Actually, this isn't a space sim, it's a space trading game'.

 

And I fail to see how it was cross-genre since it only use one control scheme+'planet interface'. That is to say, if you hate the controls, that's it for the whole game, it wasn't that once you landed on a planet you suddenly had to start playing a KotoR style RPG with munchkin power-leveling and TB combat.

 

So yeah, this example is pretty poor.

 

Also, XP in freelancer? haha, no.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Haha, YES : you could only have a ship if you have enough xp for it

[Jorian Drake]

Second, in this context "open" has a tendency to come to mean "empty" - Frontier was huge, but there was nothing to do in that game - no plot - and so the experience wasn't nearly what it could have been

 

Can completely agree with that. Freelancer is a good game, but after the storyline ends and the "Free Roaming" starts, it loses ALOT of it's magic...

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Sadly this is true, you better don't rush on the main story line, take a seat, enjoy the game, and make other things not just rush-on the story line

[Jorian Drake]

One thing I want is a NPC that does exactly what I command him or her to dowhile in combat  even when I am clicked on to a different character.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, like in commandos, or whats the name of the SW FPS shooter with 4 party member clones

[DarthVala]

Definately. You could win or lose a battle because an NPC didn't heal/use the force/slice when needed. This should be incorporated into K3....somehow.

 

And, it's Republic Commando, Jorian.

Edited February 1, 2006 by DarthVala

[Nick_i_am]

Haha, YES : you could only have a ship if you have enough xp for it 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Erm, no, that was an artificial system in the SP game that stopped you just going to Rehinland and buying the most powerful ship you could completely unbalancing the whole game, and is THIS is the best you can come up with, go you.

 

In multiplayer it was a mesure of you personal net-value, and while still used to purchase ships, wasn't any kind of issue since the ship would pretty much cost more than the money needed to get the rank needed to get it.

 

I fail to see how this has anything to do with either RPG or cross-genre.

[Jorian Drake]

Haha, YES : you could only have a ship if you have enough xp for it 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Erm, no, that was an artificial system in the SP game that stopped you just going to Rehinland and buying the most powerful ship you could completely unbalancing the whole game, and is THIS is the best you can come up with, go you.

 

In multiplayer it was a mesure of you personal net-value, and while still used to purchase ships, wasn't any kind of issue since the ship would pretty much cost more than the money needed to get the rank needed to get it.

 

I fail to see how this has anything to do with either RPG or cross-genre.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This shows they tried to combine space sim and RPG so, that no one will complain about it (players who love space sim but hates RPG ant the other side)

Edited February 1, 2006 by jorian

[Jorian Drake]

Uhh...we're now waaay away from topic, so we better go back on it, OK?

[BattleCookiee]

RPG != XP

[Nick_i_am]

If 'rank' in Freelancer even starts to compare to action sequances in an otherwise 'round-based' RPG, haha.

 

The point is that one is a 'game-niggle/feature' which has very little baring on the overall experiance bar 'you don't have enough credit to buy this ship' while the other is forcing the player into a completely new game within the game which requires a completely new set of skills. Minigames are nothing new to RPGs (esspesally JRPGs) but would segrigating the RPG in any way more than this really be productive when it would alienate part of the audiance, while those who appresiate this kind of thing anyway would already be playing the game, or already be put off by the RPG elements.