NHL

[alanschu]

The hype is the type of player they will come.

 

Besides, it's quite clear this discussion was never about what he does in his rookie year alone. You're trying to sidestep the issue. You were the one, after all, talking about putting up 130-160 point seasons, and I'm pretty sure you aren't expecting that to happen this year.

 

Don't forget players like Eric Staal either. And since you brought it up, Gretzky's first year in the NHL had him tied with Marcel Dionne for 1st in points, with a 12 point lead over Lafleur and a 31 point lead over 4th place Perrault. And the only reason why Mario didn't crack the top 10 was because he missed 7 games in his season. Though Sid is crushing both of them in PIMs. Sid better pick it up if he wants to break the top 10 in points, and it's not going to get any easier with Palffy (and to a lesser extent Lemieux) out of the picture.

[Kor Qel Droma]

TSN played a top ten goalie fights today. Lots of Hextall and Roy. Then tonight Anaheim netminder J-S Giguere has a beautiful swearing match with his coach after taking two consecutive penalties.

 

I watched some of the Pittsburgh rout of the Caps tonight. Sid was a gamebreaker, thats fo sho'. MA Fleury almost scored on himself, but his post game comments were entertaing.

[GhostofAnakin]

Besides, it's quite clear this discussion was never about what he does in his rookie year alone.  You're trying to sidestep the issue.  You were the one, after all, talking about putting up 130-160 point seasons, and I'm pretty sure you aren't expecting that to happen this year.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The discussion was about whether Crosby was living up to the hype. All other discussion branched off from that.

 

Right now, all we can discuss is his rookie season since it would be rather silly to say he hasn't lived up to the hype for the rest of his career when we have no proof of that. Everything else is moot since we can only judge him on what he's done (rookie season), and whether what he's done (rookie season) has lived up to the hype about him coming in to the season.

[alanschu]

Then why bring up 130-160 point seasons? You're as guilty as I am for talking in future tense.

 

 

Plus, you asked me what it would take for Crosby to live up to the hype. The hype is about what type of impact he will have in the game of hockey...not how good his rookie season is.

 

Even if he gets 140 points this season, if he comes back and averages 40 points per season for the rest of his career, I think it's safe to say he didn't live up to the hype.

 

 

Even then I still think he needs to do a bit better this season for him to have lived up to the hype for his rookie season. He's having a great season, but in order for his rookie season to live up to the hype, I'd still say he needs to perform at an even higher level. If he can keep up tonight's performance, then more power to him. The loss of Palffy and Mario has put him even more into Mario's situation, and he seems to have had an inspired game.

 

 

 

In other news, it's was great to see the comeback. I'm sure Giguere is in the dog house.

[Kor Qel Droma]

'nuff said

[alanschu]

Hehehe.

 

 

In other news, J.S. Giguere following in Hextall's footsteps? 16 PIM for a goalie = lollerskates.

[Volourn]

"Jagre has a ton of points, but he's probably only in the top 100 in terms of greatness. If he suddenly comes alive in the playoffs and takes his team to consecutive Stanley Cups, then he will be great."

 

Actually, he did with the Penguins. LOL :D

 

And, I still say Crosby didn't live up to the hype. People were saying he was *easily* the best rookie in the league this year. In fact, he was so overhyped that he was along with Lemiux and others were supposed to make the Pens one of the best teams in the league this year, and he hasn't hence why he is soooo overhyped. Heck, he's *maybe* the 3rd best rookie in the league. Definitely not in the top 2.

[alanschu]

Ovechkin and Lundqvist I imagine?

[Volourn]

Yes. Ovechkin is top 10 in scoring, and Lunqvist is top 5 in all important goalie categories except wins (top 10). I think that qualfies them both as being better than Crosby.

 

Espicially since Ovechkin's team is fighting for a play-off spot, and Lunqvist is one of the two main reasons why the Rangers are one of the best teams in the league (top 10) when they had missed the play-offs 7 seasons in a row.

 

What has Crosby done? A good point total on a team that is in the bottom 3 of the league. Not that impressive espciially consideirng the hype.

Edited January 26, 2006 by Volourn

[Kor Qel Droma]

espicially since Ovechkin's team is fighting for a play-off team.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

did you get into my stash Volo?

[Kor Qel Droma]

And it looks like the Oil were busy this afternoon. Jettisoning dead weight Jani Rita and Cory Cross to the Pens for **** Tarnstrom. Now the Oiler boards have been buzzing all night in anticipation of this, but I can't see why. Tarny is kind of a floater, and the chances of him getting 52 points from Edmontons' blue line is as probable as me growing and extra testicle.

 

And if that wasn't enough we picked up Jaroslav Spacek from Chicago today. At least we know he can play dirty.

[alanschu]

Perhaps we should call him Richard Tarnstrom?

[Kor Qel Droma]

No Alan, after you watch him play you'll be calling him (a) ****.

[alanschu]

Hehehe. I was referring to the censorship.

 

 

My friend thinks that this recent acquiring of defensemen could still mean a trade is in the works.

[mkreku]

I wish the Leafs could trade a little of their deadweight too. How about Aki Berg? Alexei Ponikarovsky? Tie Domi? Alexander Khavanov? Ed Belfour?

 

Oh and all of you who claimed Ed Belfour didn't live off his name (in one of the former NHL threads) and that he still stole games.. check out his stats this season! HE SUCKS. I wish Quinn benched the bastard and let Tellquist develop into a starting goalie.

[Kor Qel Droma]

No doubt another trade is in the works. Now we have Pronger/MAB, Staios/Smith. Ully/Tarny/Greene/Syvret will be fighting for game time. Add Spacek to the mix and we have more d-men than we know what to do with.

 

 

and not that it matters, but I gave back the Flames jersey I won at work and asked them to have another raffle for it. At least I won't tarnish my home by bringing that thing through the front door and I think I scored some karma points!

Edited January 26, 2006 by Kor Qel Droma

[alanschu]

Oh and all of you who claimed Ed Belfour didn't live off his name (in one of the former NHL threads) and that he still stole games.. check out his stats this season! HE SUCKS. I wish Quinn benched the bastard and let Tellquist develop into a starting goalie

 

Because the team in front of him is stellar!

 

He stopped 53 shots one game to get a win. If that's not stealing a game....

 

Looking at the rest of his stats, I see plenty of mid to high 30 shot games, and a 40 as well. The only player that has faced more shots than him, in as many games, is Olaf Kolzig.

 

He's 5th in the league in shots against, compared with players like Kiprusoff and Luongo who will play many more games than Belfour.

[Volourn]

Belfour is still a good goalie. If he is doing bad it's because the team in front of him is not so good.

 

LONG LIVE THE EAGLE!!!

[mkreku]

Looking at the rest of his stats, I see plenty of mid to high 30 shot games, and a 40 as well.  The only player that has faced more shots than him, in as many games, is Olaf Kolzig.

 

He's 5th in the league in shots against, compared with players like Kiprusoff and Luongo who will play many more games than Belfour.

You base your views on Belfour based on the one statistic that's entirely out of Belfour's hands..?

 

If he's a great goalie, why is he AFTER Kolzig (using your example) in save percentage? Last I checked, Washington is one of the lowest ranked teams in the NHL, something which the Leafs aren't (yet), still Kolzig is getting better stats. Indication of something, perhaps? Toronto sucks defensively, but Washington sucks even more. Yet Kolzig gets better individual stats than Belfour. Remember that "shots against" is the only statistic that the goalie can't do anything about himself. The other stats (wins, GAA, save percentage etc.) is all up to the goalie, and that's where Belfour fails. Draw your own conclusions (which will inevitably be that Belfour is great anyhow.. sigh).

 

On average Belfour faces 30 shots per game. The rookie Lundquist faces 28 on average. That's two more shots per game that Belfour has to deal with. You really think that's what's killing the Leafs right now? Two measly shots per game? Kolzig faces 34 shots per game on average as a comparison. Hey, why not check out the leader: The Dominator faces almost 29 shots per game on average! Just under two shots less than Belfour. Now compare the rest of their stats (Hasek's and Belfour's) and try to decide who is a great goalie and who is not.

 

In the few Leafs games I've been able to see this year Belfour stunk up the place. Even Marc Andre Fleury (who also faces 30 shots per game on average) has a better GAA (and save percentage) than Belfour! I mean, come on, Pittsburgh lose twice as many games as they win!

 

 

Edit: Just five minutes after I wrote this post, Toronto switched goalie (midperiod) to Tellquist. Belfour had (at the time) gotten 16 shots on him, let in 4 and sported a 75% save percentage. Whopping!

Edited January 27, 2006 by mkreku

[Kor Qel Droma]

What the hell is going on in tonights game Mkreku? Every time I turn my head to see the highlights its a different score... At least the Leafs aren't lying down tonight. And I see Mats Sundin has a pair of assists as well.

 

 

Every team from the Northwest division is in action tonight. Gawd Edmonton needs another win. How weird is that when your team is eight games above .500 and barely hanging on to the final berth in the playoffs. Where did the first fifty games go?

[Oerwinde]

So... when comparing Crosby to Ovechkin, is anyone taking into account that Crosby is 2 years younger?

 

I will admit that this is pretty impressive though:

 

Edited January 27, 2006 by Oerwinde

[Delta Truth]

Wow looks like the Oilers made some moves on the backend today

 

with getting **** Tarmstrom and Submariner Spacek ! That will add more fire to the BATTLE OF ALBERTA

 

but seriously what is your take on it !! I know everyone must be happy to get rid of Cross.. and I'm sure Lowe is stilling looking for a goalie !!

 

I hope Calgary pulls off a move for a centre that can get Jerome the puck!!

 

Did anyone see the highlights of the Colorado / Calgary game the fight between Sauve and Abs.. I guess Sutter got pissed after and looks like Calgary's wants a new backup huh!! strange

 

and is Buffalo overachieving or what they seem very built for the new nhl

[Kor Qel Droma]

Edmonton earned themselves two points tonight. Oddly enough I didn't even bring out the rally caps when needed.

 

And Delta Truth, I had such a good laugh over this tonight I cried.

 

Actually I'm a little nervous about the two new trades. I don't think that much of Tarnstrom and I don't know much about Spacek except he's a plus player on the Blackhawks. Tonight aside from two gaffes that cost us in the second we actually had all of our defencemen playing well. Even Igor Ulanov made a few nice plays. I guess he knows his number is up in Oil Town.

 

I guess I should say that I remember Spaceks' low hit on that Flame guy. :ph34r:

[alanschu]

Looking at the rest of his stats, I see plenty of mid to high 30 shot games, and a 40 as well.  The only player that has faced more shots than him, in as many games, is Olaf Kolzig.

 

He's 5th in the league in shots against, compared with players like Kiprusoff and Luongo who will play many more games than Belfour.

You base your views on Belfour based on the one statistic that's entirely out of Belfour's hands..?

 

Because that one statistic is very reflective of the garbage defense that is in front of him. If the other team has more opportunities to score, they probably will score more.

 

 

If he's a great goalie, why is he AFTER Kolzig (using your example) in save percentage? Last I checked, Washington is one of the lowest ranked teams in the NHL, something which the Leafs aren't (yet), still Kolzig is getting better stats. Indication of something, perhaps? Toronto sucks defensively, but Washington sucks even more. Yet Kolzig gets better individual stats than Belfour. Remember that "shots against" is the only statistic that the goalie can't do anything about himself. The other stats (wins, GAA, save percentage etc.) is all up to the goalie, and that's where Belfour fails. Draw your own conclusions (which will inevitably be that Belfour is great anyhow.. sigh).

 

First off, I'm not saying Belfour is a great goalie anymore. Second, Olaf Kolzig is also a pretty good goalie in his own right. Finally, you said that Belfour can't steal games, when I pointed out he did have a 53 save game, that resulted in a win.

 

Furthermore, the GAA is not all up to the goalie. If a goalie faces 50 shots per game versus 20 shots per game, if his name is not Roberto Luongo then he is probabl going to have a worse GAA.

 

Finally, even save percentage is not all up to the goalie. If guys give up 50 breakaways, there's a good chance the goalie isn't going to have a very good save percentage. It's like the hore**** you were spewing forth blaming Belfour for the big loss last playoffs. Even though it was crap give aways and horrid defense that gave up breakaways and odd man rushes galore. Washington is not as good of a team as Toronto, but I find that they do tend to be more careful with the puck as a result (which is natural ... In all sports the crappier teams are often more conservative as it's their only real way to have a chance at winning).

 

And to put the stamp on it, Olaf Kolzig does NOT have a better GAA average than Belfour anyways!

 

On average Belfour faces 30 shots per game. The rookie Lundquist faces 28 on average. That's two more shots per game that Belfour has to deal with. You really think that's what's killing the Leafs right now? Two measly shots per game? Kolzig faces 34 shots per game on average as a comparison. Hey, why not check out the leader: The Dominator faces almost 29 shots per game on average! Just under two shots less than Belfour. Now compare the rest of their stats (Hasek's and Belfour's) and try to decide who is a great goalie and who is not.

 

I guess being in Sweden you aren't given the opportunity to actually watch the games. If you seriously think that Belfour's 30 shots per game are of the same type as Hasek's, then you are a fool.

 

Besides, I can just as easily go and point out that Kolzig is only .010 higher in the save percentage. And Hasek is only 4% higher. 4 more goals against per 100 shots.

 

If 2 shots per game doesn't make a difference, then 4% save percentage doesn't either.

 

Never mind the fact that he's been the poor bastard that had to go up against the Senators, when they would run up the score and make his stats explode anyways. If you scratch the Ottawa games (which probably isn't that unreasonable, as your whole team plays like utter **** against them), his save percentage jumps up to above .900.

 

 

In the few Leafs games I've been able to see this year Belfour stunk up the place. Even Marc Andre Fleury (who also faces 30 shots per game on average) has a better GAA (and save percentage) than Belfour! I mean, come on, Pittsburgh lose twice as many games as they win!

 

Again, going on with the GAA. Marc-Andre Fleury is also a top goalie prospect that is finally coming into his own. He is supposed to be a good goalie, and probably should have started for the Pens all season.

 

But since you have such a hard on for the GAA, lets look around a little bit. He has a very similar GAA to Thibault, Lalime, Raycroft (rookie of the year!), Kolzig, Dipietro, Denis, Theodore, and Khabibulin. Belfour is not the only goalie that is struggling this season.

 

Edit: Just five minutes after I wrote this post, Toronto switched goalie (midperiod) to Tellquist. Belfour had (at the time) gotten 16 shots on him, let in 4 and sported a 75% save percentage. Whopping!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It doesn't matter. He could stop 49 shots, or single handedly take a **** team past the first round in the playoffs. But you're too obtuse to notice.

 

You talk as if I was expecting Belfour to be as good as Hasek.

[mkreku]

Belfour is not the only goalie that is struggling this season.

Why do you even bother to write all that crap when we both think he's struggling? Are you on your period or something? Every thread I read you're getting your knickers in a knot over something totally worthless.

 

You can blame the team all you want (it only tells me lots about your hockey knowledge) but Belfour isn't a dependable goalie anymore. He wasn't in the last playoffs and he sure as hell isn't one now. His stats says it all, no matter how much you twist and slither around them.

 

 

 

It seems Ovechkin might be slowing down, finally. One measly assist in his last two games. Maybe the guy is human after all? Or maybe he just wants to give Crosby a chance to catch up and make the race for the Calder more exciting? )