In What aspect is Kotor I better than II?

[Jediphile]

Yeah... so great that they almost forgot about the Exile and his role.

Kinda sucks not beeing the main character in an RPG.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

She's much the same as Bastila in KOTOR , although much better written of course.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

You have a peculiar take on love interests...

 

[Plano Skywalker]

Kreia was a well-written cheap trick that I can excuse once.

[Darth Kavar]

Except when Batila pisses you off you can kill her, you can only kill Kreia when she wants it though.

Plus you don't get these weird dialog options with Bastila:

 

Exile: Hi Kreia.

Kreia: You're toooooo LS!!

Exile: 1.(LS)That's because I love puppies.

2.(LS)That's because I love everything.

3.(LS)That's because I like being good.

4.(LS)...

5.(LS)...

 

Too many times when Kreia's around or it's a dialog with Kreia looking at your dialog options makes you think "now to choose the least stupid answer again". I know that they are there to make Kreia look smart (simplest way to show someone smart is to put him in conversation with a dumb person, same as with power - make him/her fight someone weak) but come on! There's got to be a better way than to make MY character the dumbass!

Edited March 5, 2006 by Darth Kavar

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Except when Batila pisses you off you can kill her, you can only kill Kreia when she wants it though.

Plus you don't get these weird dialog options with Bastila:

 

Exile: Hi Kreia.

Kreia: You're toooooo LS!!

Exile: 1.(LS)That's because I love puppies.

2.(LS)That's because I love everything.

3.(LS)That's because I like being good.

4.(LS)...

5.(LS)...

 

Too many times when Kreia's around or it's a dialog with Kreia looking at your dialog options makes you think "now to choose the least stupid answer again". I know that they are there to make Kreia look smart (simplest way to show someone smart is to put him in conversation with a dumb person, same as with power - make him/her fight someone weak) but come on! There's got to be a better way than to make MY character the dumbass!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Kreia just has a more complete understanding of things. She did always make me feel like I was visiting the headmistres' office though.

[CrowPusher]

though the dialogue was extensive, it felt pretty rushed. It all looked like potential high quality... and there was a fairly interesting character in Kreia.

[Darth Kavar]

Interesting? Well maybe...

She was a sad old woman who needed some good humpin' and never got any which is why she desperately seeked for power and when she finally did, "holding the galaxy by the throat" wasn't as fulfilling as she had hoped plus was beat up by her apprentices. Her gray side of things is what I should have liked though it pisses me of cuz I really can't agree with any of that plus I can't be manipulative. It's almost as if all those roles are reserved for her alone.

Edited March 5, 2006 by Darth Kavar

[Dark Moth]

She understood things? Some would argue she was diluded beyond recovery... " :D

[Darth Blivion]

Well, for one, KOTOR didn't have hanharr,goto, or kreia.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A big plus.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hanharr - yes.

 

G0T0 - yes.

 

Kreia - no. Kreia is a great character. She may be an annoying, manipulative old hag, but she's still one of them most wonderfully developed characters I've seen in a computer game in a long time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah... so great that they almost forgot about the Exile and his role.

Kinda sucks not beeing the main character in an RPG.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You could choose to leave Kreia on the ship the entire game. She doesn't come close to being the main character, however she happens to be the deepest NPC in the series.

[DarthReliguim]

Well, for one, KOTOR didn't have hanharr,goto, or kreia.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A big plus.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hanharr - yes.

 

G0T0 - yes.

 

Kreia - no. Kreia is a great character. She may be an annoying, manipulative old hag, but she's still one of them most wonderfully developed characters I've seen in a computer game in a long time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah... so great that they almost forgot about the Exile and his role.

Kinda sucks not beeing the main character in an RPG.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You could choose to leave Kreia on the ship the entire game. She doesn't come close to being the main character, however she happens to be the deepest NPC in the series.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, you can't.

[Darth Kavar]

You can't leave her on Telos on the ship cuz there's no ship :D

You can't shut her off when she gives you telepathic "hints".

On Nar Shaddaa she revives Hanharr no matter what and silences ZezKai (DS) plus shows up telepathically (or if in party then not) and teaches the whole "concentrate the moment" stuff.

Also when learning Mira it's like you can do it cuz Kreia told you of a nice place on Nar Shaddaa where it's easy to focus.

On Dxun it's also like she wants you to stay there cuz "whoOO! there are things he must seee heeereeee!" and on Onderon you have to take her the second time.

Luckily on Dantooine you can ignore her completely (yipee!)

On Korriban she also gives her telepathic backup and you MUST listen when she tells to run from Sion (where was the last time you had to run from someone in K1 duh??)

And the rest of the game it's pretty friggin obvoius she plays the major role.

 

"I used you... I used you... and I used you". Donno how you folks but it's kidna not my idea of fun to play a butf**ked character everytime lol

[Girias_Solo]

I Prefer KOTOR2's storyline. I enjoyed being the Exile more.

 

Yes, I wish there was more character play in the endgame. And I wish the fate of the travellers were gone into better, and i wish there were more planets, plots, bigger worlds, etc. Ultimately, I prefered the more Personal mission of the Exile.

 

KOTOR1 is no slouch though, its just that I have seen that movie before.

[GreasyDogMeat]

"where was the last time you had to run from someone in K1 duh??"

 

Forget about Malak on the Ravager? If we are going to 'pick on' the main character of each game, I'd consider abandoning Bastila to hold off Malak worse than running away from a Sith Lord who is invincible in a person to person fight and taking all of your buddies with you. I didn't feel any guilt or 'embarassment' running away from Sion. Whether or not it was easy to 'beat' him enough to activate the advice from Kreia, what can you do against an enemy that will constantly regenerate... Have the game let you fight him for hours on end until you realize that despite him not doing a ton of damage to you, he just can't be downed without certain knowledge? EVERYTHING about the Sion encounter felt like the Exile was in control.

 

"OK, we're not doing any damage, but he's not very threatening either. Let's all regroup, calmly and quickly exit stage left and save this battle for another day otherwise we'll be standing here hitting him all day." I just knew that at some point or another we'd be able to have this fight anohter day and the Exile would have some new knowledge or ability on how to beat this sith lord.

 

In KoTOR 1, I couldn't believe that I was being FORCED to abandon Bastila so late in the game. Here I'd spent so much time with the character and then suddenly its just ditch her. Atleast in KoTOR 2 the Exile isn't ditching long term friends and even goes to the effort of rescuing Mira who was trying to claim a bounty on him/her. If you play LS of course.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

In KoTOR 1, I couldn't believe that I was being FORCED to abandon Bastila so late in the game. Here I'd spent so much time with the character and then suddenly its just ditch her. Atleast in KoTOR 2 the Exile isn't ditching long term friends and even goes to the effort of rescuing Mira who was trying to claim a bounty on him/her. If you play LS of course.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Wouldnt have been so bad if Malak was actually hard. But he's a total wuss at that point of the game. And if you have the right build and some luck you can reduce his HP's to 0 (dosnt matter though the scene still plays out the same).

 

Sion at least had a rational explanation when it came to not being able to beat him. Although I thought chopping him up and sticking a piece in each of those lockers you find would have been a fine solution.

[LunarG]

I'm a bit tired, and might not have payed enough attention here, but as far as I could see nobody mentioned the music.

 

In my opinion the music in KotOR1 was a bit more...Star Warsy than the music in KotOR2... Maybe not a big issue, but still. But to some that doesn't mean anything I guess.

 

As for those who mentioned the robes... YES! The robed in KotOR1 sucked. I liked Bastila's default outfit though, but I missed having proper Jedi Robes .

I remember the first time I played KotOR2 and finally got some Jedi robes... I was so happy to see my character actually looking like a proper Jedi. It added a lot to the feel of the game for me.

 

In general I liked KotOR1 best though, due to the fact that there were better places to visit. Each place had, what felt like, more worthwhile things to do. You left each place with a feeling of having made a difference, and maybe also left a memory of yourself behind, and that made it much more rewarding to me. I like the travelling part, the feeling of seeing strange worlds with many different people. I don't really know why, but many of the places in KotOR2 just felt a bit underpopulated to me. Okay, so Nar Shaada had lots of things to do, and many people, but there were little of actual sights and such.

 

As for stories, I don't really favor one over the other. But I would very much like to see a conclusion.

 

What I'd like in KotOR3 is:

 

Option to wear Jedi outfit without outer robes, or with hood up.

 

A REAL student to teach, where you'd actually have to take some time to give him/her lessons and such. Would be very cool. Then your lessons and teachings would affect how the student would end up... Light side or dark side. Could be cool having to face your own student... And I don't care if it's clich

[DarthReliguim]

You can't leave her on Telos on the ship cuz there's no ship :D

You can't shut her off when she gives you telepathic "hints".

On Nar Shaddaa she revives Hanharr no matter what and silences ZezKai (DS) plus shows up telepathically (or if in party then not) and teaches the whole "concentrate the moment" stuff.

Also when learning Mira it's like you can do it cuz Kreia told you of a nice place on Nar Shaddaa where it's easy to focus.

On Dxun it's also like she wants you to stay there cuz "whoOO! there are things he must seee heeereeee!" and on Onderon you have to take her the second time.

Luckily on Dantooine you can ignore her completely (yipee!)

On Korriban she also gives her telepathic backup and you MUST listen when she tells to run from Sion (where was the last time you had to run from someone in K1 duh??)

And the rest of the game it's pretty friggin obvoius she plays the major role.

 

"I used you... I used you... and I used you". Donno how you folks but it's kidna not my idea of fun to play a butf**ked character everytime lol

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I still rather have Carth, Zaalbar,Hanharr, and go-to in my group and not be able to take out instead hearing or seeing Kreia at all.

[Darth Kavar]

OK my bad So you did run away from Sion with more sense than from Malak.

Let's do another 'pick on' :D j/k

 

When DS Exile was owned by a poison dart from the back! woot!

 

Plus you get to kill Malak and Kreia is "oh well. now i'll let you kill me cuz i want it that way".

Anyway - G0T0 ain't annoying because you can actually ignore him the moment you get him and act "Goto's dead. He died on Goto's yacht. That black thing there is just my repair droid and the final Remote scene doesn't happen at all" (yes it can actually be done to skip G0T0 entirely through modding and it even makes more sense in the game ).

 

I had a dream once... when DS - Kreia dies on Dantooine by my hands (instead of her owning me) and Atris is Darth Traya (w00t)

Edited March 10, 2006 by Darth Kavar

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

OK my bad So you did run away from Sion with more sense than from Malak.

Let's do another 'pick on' :D j/k

 

When DS Exile was owned by a poison dart from the back! woot!

 

Plus you get to kill Malak and Kreia is "oh well. now i'll let you kill me cuz i want it that way".

Anyway - G0T0 ain't annoying because you can actually ignore him the moment you get him and act "Goto's dead. He died on Goto's yacht. That black thing there is just my repair droid and the final Remote scene doesn't happen at all (yes it can actually be done to skip G0T0 entirely through modding and it even makes more sense in the game ).

 

I had a dream once... when DS - Kreia dies on Dantooine by my hands (instead of her owning me) and Atris is Darth Traya  (w00t)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You do know who GOTO is ?

[Darth Kavar]

Yes I do. And he can be ignored completely unlike Kreia whom the story is all about.

[CrowPusher]

I wish KotOR had a good RPG system, like KotOR II. The first game sort of sucked in terms of character options; and the augmentation of Force ability through skills really added a lot to the second game.

 

Honestly, I can barely remember Malachor... but I remember the confrontations on the Starforge all too well.

 

I think that, primarily, and this is hard to explain, the second game didn't seem to MOVE you along like the first game did. Level design? VO? I don't know.

Edited March 12, 2006 by CrowPusher

[jaguars4ever]

What's with the puke emoticon, anyway?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He probably coughed a bit of his own vomit before swallowing it. It is extracheesy after all.

[Darth Blivion]

Yes I do. And he can be ignored completely unlike Kreia whom the story is all about.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No. You can leave her on the ship, and her voice doesn't count. Basically she becomes like that NSA contact in Splinter Cell. She doesn't come close to being the main character.

[Darth Kavar]

Yes I do. And he can be ignored completely unlike Kreia whom the story is all about.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No. You can leave her on the ship, and her voice doesn't count. Basically she becomes like that NSA contact in Splinter Cell. She doesn't come close to being the main character.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well she gets to be always right (not because she says smart stuff but because nobody ever was right when arguing with her not even you because of your dumb dialog options) and gets to have the most fulfilling (for her) end which is to die when she wanted it.

 

EDIT: Plus everybody which she wanted to die - died because of her "manipulations".

Edited March 17, 2006 by Darth Kavar

[Darth Blivion]

Everyone she wanted dead, died because the Exile succeeded - her manipulations wouldn't count for much had the Exile not overcomed Atris, NIhilus, Sion and herself. By your reasoning, GL's six episodes are about Palpatine. Kreia never comes off as the main character - she is merely a better developed NPC than you're used to.

[Xard]

No. Movies are about Anakin

[Pa3PyX]

K1's story in retrospect, especially if you're a lightsider, was also a lot more charming.  K2's story was ugly.  I know some people like that, but others don't.  And of course, K1's story was actually complete.  Also, the characters for the most part in K1 seemed more likeable, and in a way more "unified".  There seemed to be a friendship mentality among them.  Whearas in K2, the characters pretty much disliked or were distrustful of each other. 

That's right in the bull's eye. KotOR party members were actually a team -- at least if you play LS, whereas KotOR II party members were merely, in Kreia's words, "allies by circumstance" -- regardless of alignment. This is my main gripe about more recent movies as well (Fantastic Four, Brothers Grimm, Serenity) -- that there is so much squabble between the protagonists. This is not to say that characters should not be able to switch sides given enough pressure -- but so long as they are aligned with you or against you, the good guys should remain the good guys, and the bad guys should remain the bad guys. This is also not to say that characters cannot be separated, captured, and, indeed, killed -- so long as at the end of it there is an uncompromised, clear cut resolution which determines who had it right, and who had it wrong (or who was the guy with the gun, rather). But there should not be accent on the petty squabbles that just go on and on and on, with no end of them, even to the grand finale... AAAARRRGGH. In describing this kind of story, ugly is a good word -- very elaborate to be sure, but ugly.

In my honest opinion, K2 shouldn't have been a direct sequal to K1.  K1 didn't even need a sequal.  It was fine by itself.  K2 should have just started with a new storyline in a different time period, while still being set in the Old Republic.  By trying to make it a direct sequal, they made the writing that much harder, made the storyline much more complicated, and also dug themselves into a hole with the cliffhanger ending.

I agree; KotOR II storyline is only loosely related to KotOR for the most part of the game; it's not a direct sequel. Or it's a sequel in the same way as Jedi Academy is a sequel to Jedi Outcast, even more unrelated. There is a shadow of the prequel's character in the sequel, but that shadow, for the most part, plays no part in the story. There definitely are references to the Mandalorian War and the Jedi Civil War, even Exar Kun, some allusions of Revan's participation -- but nothing about the Rakata, nothing about the Star Forge. Nothing about what actually happened to Revan and what path he/she ultimately chose -- well, close to nothing. Not to mention the absence thereof (even as NPC).

In KoTOR 1, I couldn't believe that I was being FORCED to abandon Bastila so late in the game. Here I'd spent so much time with the character and then suddenly its just ditch her. Atleast in KoTOR 2 the Exile isn't ditching long term friends and even goes to the effort of rescuing Mira who was trying to claim a bounty on him/her. If you play LS of course.

I must agree with that though. That was easily the most disappointing moment in the first KotOR; Malak was NOT up to snuff at that part of the game. One on one, he may have given either Revan, Carth, or Bastila a hard time with his Stasis Field (as Bastila said, "Neither of us is a match for the Dark Lord"), but together, the three of them could have handled him no problem.

Not perfect perhaps, but better than K2, which seemed closer to Diablo 2 where you have swarms of insects dropping heavy plate armors as random loot   

LOL, that one was puzzling for me at first as well. It was finally decided that locusts, being powered by hell itself, would rip the warriors (those who dare to face them) apart, together with their armor plates, which would be magically disassembled into tiny pieces which each locust can carry individually. The character then destroys the swarm of locusts with a sword (or better yet, an arrow). The powers of hell are thereby undone, and the armor plate that was previously taken apart by the locusts is magically reassembled -- voila, a loot.

 

I believe they fixed this in 1.10 and above though; locusts can no longer drop armor and weapons, only potions and scrolls (well... except maybe "unique" locusts). Too bad; that was fun.

 

Diablo 2 (and the original Diablo) had more of these remarkable moments, too -- the way animations were done (treasure chests which catapult their contents in your face when you open them; mummies and zombies that like to slap you in the face with that characteristic grumble (reminding me of those foxes in Witchaven which used to swear as they attacked you)); monster names ("ghostly skeletons" and "ghostly ghosts", giant mosquitoes called "suckers")...

Edited March 24, 2006 by Pa3PyX